{"version":"https://jsonfeed.org/version/1","title":"Community Pulse","home_page_url":"http://www.communitypulse.io","feed_url":"http://www.communitypulse.io/json","description":"Community Pulse is the spot for Developer Relations and Community professionals who are looking for information on building technical communities. Community Builders and DevRel veterans Jason Hand, Mary Thengvall, PJ Hagerty, and Wesley Faulkner interview experts in the field of Developer Relations and Community Leadership on a broad range of topics related to building community.","_fireside":{"pubdate":"2025-01-03T05:00:00.000-08:00","explicit":false,"copyright":"2025 by Community Pulse Hosts","owner":"Mary Thengvall","image":"https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/e/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/cover.jpg?v=3"},"items":[{"id":"dbcf7398-b5f8-4b39-925c-5c3e26d59e5b","title":"The DevRel Foundation (Ep 93)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/93-the-devrel-foundation","content_text":"In this episode, Wesley, PJ, and Jason take the opportunity to talk about a new phenomenon - The DevRel Foundation from the Linux Foundation. Learn how folks have gotten involved, what the Foundation intends to do, and how you can share your voice.\n\nTopics Discussed:\nIntroduction to the DevRel Foundation:\nThe episode explores the new DevRel Foundation, an initiative under the Linux Foundation, created to address challenges in Developer Relations (DevRel).\nWesley Faulkner introduces the foundation, noting that its purpose is to be a nonpartisan hub for discussions about DevRel and to provide resources for defining the profession and its practices.\n\nFoundational Goals:\nThe DevRel Foundation aims to address key challenges within DevRel, including defining the role, measuring its impact, and rolling out successful DevRel programs. It seeks to aggregate existing knowledge and create a space for new insights.\nWesley discusses his role in the steering committee and mentions the ongoing process of recruiting champions for various topics within DevRel to drive these discussions forward.\n\nOpen Participation and Community Engagement:\nThe foundation is described as a participative effort, where everyone from managers to community members can contribute. This is highlighted as an important distinction from more passive feedback mechanisms (like town halls).\nWesley outlines the process, emphasizing that the foundation is open to diverse perspectives, and all contributions will be available for collaboration through platforms like GitHub and Discord.\n\nChallenges of Defining DevRel:\nA major challenge discussed is the diversity of how DevRel is implemented across different organizations (e.g., startups, enterprises, nonprofits). Wesley talks about the need for an inclusive approach that doesn’t exclude any perspectives while ensuring practical outcomes.\nJason Hand asks about how the foundation plans to handle these varied implementations, suggesting that a “one-size-fits-all” approach may not work.\n\nThe Role of the Linux Foundation:\nThe Linux Foundation’s role is explained as crucial in providing structure, governance, and logistical support for the foundation. The Linux Foundation's history with supporting open-source projects and fostering community-driven initiatives is seen as a key advantage.\n\nReal-World Impact and Job Descriptions:\nJason Hand discusses the problem of inconsistent DevRel job descriptions in the industry, which often blur the lines between roles like developer advocate, customer success, and sales engineering. The foundation’s work could help standardize expectations for DevRel roles across organizations.\nThe episode touches on how a clearer definition of DevRel could assist job seekers and hiring managers in aligning roles more effectively.\n\nFuture of the DevRel Foundation:\nThe foundation is still in its early stages, and Wesley emphasizes that while there’s hope for the project, it will take time to make significant progress. They encourage participation in calls, Discord, and GitHub to stay updated and contribute.\n\nKey Takeaways:\n\n\nThe DevRel Foundation seeks to unify and provide structure to the diverse, evolving field of Developer Relations.\nInclusive participation is at the core of the foundation's mission, aiming to gather input from all sectors of the community.\nThe foundation is driven by volunteer work and community passion, with the support of the Linux Foundation's structure and resources.\nGitHub and Discord are key platforms for collaboration, ensuring that community voices are heard and that contributions are open for review and iteration.\nThe foundation’s work will eventually help provide clarity in DevRel role definitions, benefiting both organizations and professionals in the field.\n\n\nAction Items:\n\n\nJoin the DevRel Foundation: Individuals can join calls, participate in discussions, or contribute to the work via GitHub and Discord.\nBecome a Champion: The foundation is actively seeking managers to lead specific topics within DevRel.\nStay Informed: Engage with the monthly updates and open calls to follow the foundation’s progress.\n\n\nKey Words and Themes:\nDevRel Foundation\nDeveloper Relations (DevRel)\nLinux Foundation\nOpen Participation\nInclusive Governance\nCommunity-Driven Initiatives\nJob Descriptions in DevRel\nGitHub and Discord Collaboration\nNonprofit Organization\nVolunteer-Driven\n\nTranscript\n\n[00:00:00] PJ Haggerty: Hey everybody. And welcome to another episode of Community Pulse. We're super excited to have you. \n\n[00:00:04] PJ Haggerty: This week we decided we would take a look at a new phenomenon, the DevRel Foundation, the Developer Relations Foundation from our friends at the Linux Foundation.\n\n[00:00:12] PJ Haggerty: Some of you are probably already aware of it. Some of you are probably in the discord chat. Some people might not know about it at all. So we want to take this opportunity to share some information about it and see what we could find out and how we felt about it. So with that, I am joined by, of course, Jason Hand and Wesley Faulkner. Wesley, you've been doing a lot of work with the DevRel foundation as far as like looking at, working models and how people can actually get things done within the foundation.\n\n[00:00:37] PJ Haggerty: So do you want to kick us off and give us a description of what's going on? \n\n[00:00:41] Wesley Faulkner: Yes. Let me lay a little bit of the groundwork to understand my involvement and how. So I'm part of the steering committee. There's five of us in total. And I am the newest member of that five person steering committee.\n\n[00:00:55] Wesley Faulkner: I've been part of the DevRel foundation since June of this year. [00:01:00] And the foundations, the start of it had, I think, started way before that even before the beginning of the year. And the involvement with the Linux foundation happens like I think in around the February timeframe. And so the thought is that there are Certain types of challenges that are unique to people in dev rel defining what we do is one of them that I think is something that people are familiar with, but others that have been lingering around about how do you measure dev rel and like adequately, like, how do you plan for the future and how do you roll out a developer relations program?\n\n[00:01:35] Wesley Faulkner: Those are like the broad strokes of it. So the thought of the Dev Rel foundation is to be a nonpartisan home for these types of discussions. And we are currently set up as the steering committee, as people who are trying to facilitate those conversations, give structure and processing of what timeline we should have these conversations and be helped, like [00:02:00] with the being a home to people to find this, Information once we have it all created and to be a repository for a lot of existing knowledge, but also allow the connection tissue to create new knowledge that is not there right now.\n\n[00:02:16] Wesley Faulkner: So that's like the whole arc of it. Depending on when you're listening to this podcast, we are currently enrolling people to take on and champion these specific areas of topics. Here are the lists that we've aggregated from the community of the challenges.\n\n[00:02:33] Wesley Faulkner: And we're looking for managers to say I want to champion that and run it to ground to make sure that we actually have things defined to help us all as dev or all practitioners. \n\n[00:02:43] PJ Haggerty: And I want to zero in because I think that some people I was in the initial meeting kickoff thing that happened back in June and there was a concern and it was oh, this is a town hall, not really a feedback thing, but more of a town hall where we'll come and tell you what we think is [00:03:00] good and you can come and tell us if you don't think it's good.\n\n[00:03:03] PJ Haggerty: But what it really is is a participative activity. Not everybody wants to, and that's okay. But the idea is really behind let's put together a compendium of knowledge about what we do and put that so that when people reference it, they can easily say, this is the way it works.\n\n[00:03:22] PJ Haggerty: It's a constantly moving organic body. It's similar to software. There is nothing done on this. Would that, do you think that's accurate? Great. \n\n[00:03:31] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah, I think that initially I was on that initial feedback preview call as well. And that session, I think, raised a lot of awareness about how developed the thought was of where things were going to go and how open to input.\n\n[00:03:47] Wesley Faulkner: The foundation was to the community and letting the community shape the direction and the focus of the foundation. And I think to its credit, the foundation has taken a lot of that into heart. [00:04:00] And I think that's when I joined actually because of that call or after that call. A lot of the work that I've done, at least on the initial side, was finding a way to make sure that the community's voice is heard.\n\n[00:04:12] Wesley Faulkner: And then once we get all of this feedback, how do we actually act on it? Because it feels like if you think about the possibilities, the developer relations, there's just so much out there. How do we choose which ones that we're going to help move forward? And I devised or helped with the rest of the people in the steering committee and other feedback.\n\n[00:04:31] Wesley Faulkner: From people like you, PJ, about how we address the needs of the community in a way that doesn't feel exclusionary. \n\n[00:04:39] PJ Haggerty: Think exclusionary is the word you're looking for. Yeah. \n\n[00:04:40] Wesley Faulkner: And also how do we actually be productive to actually move forward instead of having constant discussions all the time and where do we actually make sure that it was the right time to do action?\n\n[00:04:52] Jason Hand: Wesley, I got a question. I feel like a lot of our episodes, we generally take a stance on [00:05:00] when it comes to implementing certain things that it just depends on the situation of the organization, the team, the objectives of the org that they're in, there's always just like so many dependencies and variables that go into an implementation of things to take a stance on, how certain aspects or certain elements of developer relations Has found success.\n\n[00:05:23] Jason Hand: I'm wondering if there's plans or if there's been any discussion on including lots of different implementation scenarios rather than trying to be one single source of truth, because I feel like that's probably going to be some pushback and going to be some feedback that maybe we hear from this type of organization or foundation, of what goals do we have about putting into concrete terms what.\n\n[00:05:48] Jason Hand: developer relations is or isn't when we know that there's just so many ways to do it, Startups are going to do it one way enterprise is going to do it a different One part of the world's going to do it in one way [00:06:00] versus others so Anyway, just curious what your thoughts are on that \n\n[00:06:04] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah, there's different verticals, like there's regulated industries like fintech, there are different areas like nonprofit work and open source software as opposed to closed source software.\n\n[00:06:14] Wesley Faulkner: Then there is developer first, and then there's developer plus then you mentioned different languages, but there's also different geos and there's also different access to technologies, like parts of the developing world where steady connected electricity and internet is not something that's.\n\n[00:06:31] Wesley Faulkner: So there's many different facets. So the answer is, we are trying to be as inclusive as possible by making sure that people have the opportunity to put forth their specific concern. At the same time, we are requiring that as groups are formed around these topics, that there are at least three managers.\n\n[00:06:56] Wesley Faulkner: To each of these topics to make sure that there's not [00:07:00] one perspective that's running the show. And then each of these topics, the managers need to recruit at least eight participants. This is to increase the diversity and the different ways that people see things and to make sure that these edge cases or main cases are incorporated into the final result.\n\n[00:07:20] Wesley Faulkner: And last, but not least, this is supposed to be an iterative process. So whatever the group Creates, it will be posted to GitHub and you can, and everyone and anyone can put in pull requests so that their voices are heard and their perspectives are also taken into account. \n\n[00:07:39] PJ Haggerty: And you're saying all this and for those of you who are listening to the audio and saying, wow, Wesley really has this down.\n\n[00:07:44] PJ Haggerty: Wesley has very much structured this and put it into a GitHub document for people to interact with and understand. And I think this that allayed a lot of my concerns when this first came up, because I was like, is this an exercise in student government where the most popular kids [00:08:00] will be voted into their positions of power.\n\n[00:08:01] PJ Haggerty: And everyone else will just sit by the wayside with no voice. And Wesley was very careful to design a way in which that wasn't. I think one of the, one of the things that I liked the most about the structure of this, and we'll add the link to the GitHub and the show notes, but one of the things that I really enjoyed about the structure of this was that anyone who is a manager for only a certain period of time.\n\n[00:08:24] PJ Haggerty: This isn't a situation where you are, to use the term, they often use an open source project. You're a benevolent dictator for life. Which is that, that's your Linus's and Your David Heinemeyer Handwritten. It's great that you create this thing.\n\n[00:08:37] PJ Haggerty: Please let other people as it evolves, take it over. And that's baked into the design. And I feel like we're laying a lot on Wesley here. And I think that there's varying differences between what even the people on this podcast are doing as far as level of participation.\n\n[00:08:51] PJ Haggerty: Like I'm a passive participant. I've been watching what's going on, participating in the discord. Talking to some people about some things, but I'm not a manager. [00:09:00] Wesley's a part of the steering committee. Mary had, is that some of those initial meetings are taking a step back due to some busy work related things.\n\n[00:09:07] PJ Haggerty: And Jason, are you in the collective? Are you in the discussion or are you just an external passive observer at this point in time?. \n\n[00:09:16] Jason Hand: Definitely a passive observer. I think, just through knowing Wesley and the conversations we have here and there I may be a little closer tHand others in terms of just, when I started hearing about it.\n\n[00:09:27] Jason Hand: But yeah, at this point I'm not involved. Other than, like I said, just conversations I've had with Wesley. But definitely curious to learn more about what's going on with it. And I quite honestly, I don't have a lot of depth in knowledge around any of the Linux foundations or any just foundations in general.\n\n[00:09:45] Jason Hand: And I don't know if Wesley, if that's something you can dig a little deeper into, like what would somebody who has no knowledge of what the Linux Foundation is and any of the offshoots of that, like what are the core benefits? \n\n[00:09:57] Wesley Faulkner: I gotta say that there's something that I have to [00:10:00] say about the Linox Foundation in general is that the foundation is an umbrella of other open source projects. So Linux itself is a Linux Foundation project. Git. Is a Linux foundation project. And there's several other Valky is also big and new and it was just launched at the open source summit.\n\n[00:10:21] Wesley Faulkner: In September. \n\n[00:10:23] PJ Haggerty: Don't forget about that. Dang Kubernetes that people keep talking about. The kids are all under the coop. Yep. CNCF is \n\n[00:10:28] Wesley Faulkner: underneath. Yep. The CNCF is under the Linux foundation. Those projects that you know, and love have come under that same umbrella.\n\n[00:10:36] Wesley Faulkner: But I have to say the dev rel foundation is different tHand any of those are in all of the other projects because that this feels more of, A governance body or like a list of documents and not necessarily focused on code and making a product from that standpoint, which I think is a little bit different.\n\n[00:10:58] Wesley Faulkner: And the question is [00:11:00] why the Linux foundation, and we have a lot of these addressed in our FAQ, if you go to the But for my take that we wanted a place in a home. That was nonpartisan, meaning like it's not owned by a company or someone with specific interests. One that has a history of supporting software and open source processes and making sure it's community like the way that we come to decisions is open to the community and the community can participate \n\n[00:11:32] Wesley Faulkner: I can't think of any that checks all of the boxes. So it's part of the Linux Foundation because it is one that does already have a reputation. They are giving us resources and supporting us from a process standpoint. And it allows us to have access to other projects and maintainers and people who've been doing this way longer tHand we have.\n\n[00:11:55] Wesley Faulkner: And so being under that umbrella also gives us that connection and [00:12:00] of the siblings who are also in the project. But also just to make sure that it is noted that we are unfunded product projects under the Linux foundation. So we were not trying to make money. No, one's giving us money. \n\n[00:12:14] Wesley Faulkner: It's just right now it's all community and volunteer work. That's in the found formation of this foundation. So it's our passions that are driving it. So if there are better suggestions, we are open to hear it. But right now the Linux Foundation sounds like a really good choice and they've been an excellent partner for us.\n\n[00:12:36] Wesley Faulkner: Without her support and her guidance and her doing the intros and her doing a lot of the heavy lifting I think we wouldn't have gotten as far as we have right now.\n\n[00:12:47] PJ Haggerty: I think it's interesting you mention that because I know that organically around I had been talking for a couple years with people. Wesley, you and I had a conversation that I think is now two and a half years ago about putting together some sort [00:13:00] governance document, some sort of something to say, this is DevRel.\n\n[00:13:05] PJ Haggerty: This is the way it worked. This is, giving some sort of guideline to what this all means. I think that some people might be like the Linux foundation eyebrows raised what's going on here at the same time, I think, without having that logistical support, if not the organizational support, this may never have come off because so many people were working in so many small working groups, but not really getting anywhere because they couldn't figure out that logistical component, like how do we do this and not exclude people?\n\n[00:13:32] PJ Haggerty: How do we do this and ensure that we have the good mindshare and the diverse mindshare that we need to actually share this information. These are questions that luckily the Linux foundation has answered before, and therefore they can answer it for this. \n\n[00:13:49] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah. I got to say that there's been a lot of reaction to the Linux foundation.\n\n[00:13:52] Wesley Faulkner: And even just the DevRel foundation. Let's just talk it from there about one saying, why do we need this? That's one of the feedbacks that we've gotten. The [00:14:00] other is, this is amazing. I, this is, I'm so excited. And then I think what Jason also said is that. I'm going to wait and see, so will we, will this have legs?\n\n[00:14:11] Wesley Faulkner: Will this keep going? Will this actually produce anything? Will this make a change? And when we were working on our little project back then, Jason PJ it was, some of the conversations were just like, why are we the two people? Or what, why are we the ones to be able to hold this torch and I think the Linux foundation kind of answers some of those questions in terms of it, are we a trusted organization or who legitimizes us for being a person that could have a voice?\n\n[00:14:43] Jason Hand: So one more thing I wanted to touch on because I do see a lot of benefits that can come and clearly there's, great examples from the Linux Foundation of success and how this kind of community effort. Can come together and really help in a lot of ways, but a concrete way that I think really [00:15:00] stands out to me that could help for a lot of those folks who are either new to developer relations or in community in general, or maybe they're out on the market looking for new roles because we do hear so much of a variety in terms of what DevRel can look like.\n\n[00:15:15] Jason Hand: And you see it like on new job postings where one company is looking for. With a title as a developer relations professional or some variation of that, but then looking through the description, it looks like it's going to include some roles and responsibilities that have traditionally not aligned with developer relations.\n\n[00:15:32] Jason Hand: Oftentimes there's just so much variance in terms of what DevRel roles could look like, but this might actually help. Narrow that a little bit and make it easier for both those who are looking to fill roles and those who are looking to find new roles. We're all speaking the same language on what the expectations are here.\n\n[00:15:51] PJ Haggerty: Yeah. There's that centralization concept of, maybe if we can define and say, this is what DevRel looks like, then [00:16:00] maybe the hiring managers and the people at LinkedIn and indeed, and what have you, is Monster.com still a thing? I don't think Monster.com is still a thing.\n\n[00:16:07] PJ Haggerty: But maybe the people who are in charge of all of this hiring and doing all these things, maybe they can finally have a good definition to understand that maybe you're not looking for a developer advocate or a developer relations specialist, maybe you're actually looking for someone in marketing.\n\n[00:16:24] PJ Haggerty: Maybe you're actually looking for a sales engineer. Who's technically minded, but they're to speak to onboard clients. Maybe you're even looking for customer success. Because like you said, Jason, I've looked at a lot of these job descriptions, especially over here that I was unemployed.\n\n[00:16:39] PJ Haggerty: And a lot of these people do not understand that their questions that they're asking or that the positions they're describing are not developer relations positions, but. The buzzwords here. So let's go with what we got. \n\n[00:16:52] Wesley Faulkner: And also to be frank, these questions have been answered and probably it's been answered multiple [00:17:00] times by different people and everyone who's been in DevRel for a very long time can see and read these and say, that's actually valid.\n\n[00:17:09] Wesley Faulkner: Someone who's brand new may not have that ability to distinguish what is. Actually something that makes sense. I think the DevRel foundation will help those new people to be able to do some of that work for them.\n\n[00:17:21] Wesley Faulkner: Not necessarily have to create all this new documentation and resources, but aggregating some of the things that are out there that is really good, high quality work that we can help with bringing them into the fold and allowing people to use us as a central point to jump off and find these other resources.\n\n[00:17:38] PJ Haggerty: Yeah, that's awesome. And I think that I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out of it. People should not have an expectation. Let's set some boundaries here. People should not have an expectation that like come January one, the dev rel foundation is about to drop the hottest mixtape you've ever heard about dev rel.\n\n[00:17:54] PJ Haggerty: These things are going to take time. Yes, we have hope, but hope takes work. \n\n[00:17:59] Wesley Faulkner: [00:18:00] And 1 of the things that we're asking or requiring for all these groups that form is that they give at least a monthly update on 1 of our open calls and open meetings that we do every week.\n\n[00:18:10] Wesley Faulkner: If you want to stay abreast about the progress take a look in at. Our GitHub and look at what the process we're working and fostering. And also just, if you have input jump into one of these calls and just talk to the people who are championing these directly. \n\n[00:18:26] PJ Haggerty: Or at the very least jump in the discord and see what the conversation is.\n\n[00:18:29] PJ Haggerty: Yep. I think there's a lot of good conversation going on over there as well. And with that, thank you for giving us space to talk about this. \n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork photo by Ramin Khatibi on Unsplash.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIn this episode, Wesley, PJ, and Jason take the opportunity to talk about a new phenomenon - The DevRel Foundation from the Linux Foundation. Learn how folks have gotten involved, what the Foundation intends to do, and how you can share your voice.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTopics Discussed:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eIntroduction to the DevRel Foundation:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe episode explores the new DevRel Foundation, an initiative under the Linux Foundation, created to address challenges in Developer Relations (DevRel).\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner introduces the foundation, noting that its purpose is to be a nonpartisan hub for discussions about DevRel and to provide resources for defining the profession and its practices.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFoundational Goals:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe DevRel Foundation aims to address key challenges within DevRel, including defining the role, measuring its impact, and rolling out successful DevRel programs. It seeks to aggregate existing knowledge and create a space for new insights.\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley discusses his role in the steering committee and mentions the ongoing process of recruiting champions for various topics within DevRel to drive these discussions forward.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOpen Participation and Community Engagement:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe foundation is described as a participative effort, where everyone from managers to community members can contribute. This is highlighted as an important distinction from more passive feedback mechanisms (like town halls).\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley outlines the process, emphasizing that the foundation is open to diverse perspectives, and all contributions will be available for collaboration through platforms like GitHub and Discord.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eChallenges of Defining DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nA major challenge discussed is the diversity of how DevRel is implemented across different organizations (e.g., startups, enterprises, nonprofits). Wesley talks about the need for an inclusive approach that doesn’t exclude any perspectives while ensuring practical outcomes.\u003cbr\u003e\nJason Hand asks about how the foundation plans to handle these varied implementations, suggesting that a “one-size-fits-all” approach may not work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Role of the Linux Foundation:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe Linux Foundation’s role is explained as crucial in providing structure, governance, and logistical support for the foundation. The Linux Foundation\u0026#39;s history with supporting open-source projects and fostering community-driven initiatives is seen as a key advantage.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eReal-World Impact and Job Descriptions:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJason Hand discusses the problem of inconsistent DevRel job descriptions in the industry, which often blur the lines between roles like developer advocate, customer success, and sales engineering. The foundation’s work could help standardize expectations for DevRel roles across organizations.\u003cbr\u003e\nThe episode touches on how a clearer definition of DevRel could assist job seekers and hiring managers in aligning roles more effectively.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFuture of the DevRel Foundation:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe foundation is still in its early stages, and Wesley emphasizes that while there’s hope for the project, it will take time to make significant progress. They encourage participation in calls, Discord, and GitHub to stay updated and contribute.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Takeaways:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe DevRel Foundation seeks to unify and provide structure to the diverse, evolving field of Developer Relations.\nInclusive participation is at the core of the foundation\u0026#39;s mission, aiming to gather input from all sectors of the community.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe foundation is driven by volunteer work and community passion, with the support of the Linux Foundation\u0026#39;s structure and resources.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eGitHub and Discord are key platforms for collaboration, ensuring that community voices are heard and that contributions are open for review and iteration.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe foundation’s work will eventually help provide clarity in DevRel role definitions, benefiting both organizations and professionals in the field.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAction Items:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eJoin the DevRel Foundation: Individuals can join calls, participate in discussions, or contribute to the work via GitHub and Discord.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBecome a Champion:\u003c/strong\u003e The foundation is actively seeking managers to lead specific topics within DevRel.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eStay Informed:\u003c/strong\u003e Engage with the monthly updates and open calls to follow the foundation’s progress.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Words and Themes:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nDevRel Foundation\u003cbr\u003e\nDeveloper Relations (DevRel)\u003cbr\u003e\nLinux Foundation\u003cbr\u003e\nOpen Participation\u003cbr\u003e\nInclusive Governance\u003cbr\u003e\nCommunity-Driven Initiatives\u003cbr\u003e\nJob Descriptions in DevRel\u003cbr\u003e\nGitHub and Discord Collaboration\u003cbr\u003e\nNonprofit Organization\u003cbr\u003e\nVolunteer-Driven\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003ch2\u003eTranscript\u003c/h2\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:00] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Hey everybody. And welcome to another episode of Community Pulse. We\u0026#39;re super excited to have you. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:04] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e This week we decided we would take a look at a new phenomenon, the DevRel Foundation, the Developer Relations Foundation from our friends at the Linux Foundation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:12] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Some of you are probably already aware of it. Some of you are probably in the discord chat. Some people might not know about it at all. So we want to take this opportunity to share some information about it and see what we could find out and how we felt about it. So with that, I am joined by, of course, Jason Hand and Wesley Faulkner. Wesley, you\u0026#39;ve been doing a lot of work with the DevRel foundation as far as like looking at, working models and how people can actually get things done within the foundation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:37] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e So do you want to kick us off and give us a description of what\u0026#39;s going on? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:41] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Let me lay a little bit of the groundwork to understand my involvement and how. So I\u0026#39;m part of the steering committee. There\u0026#39;s five of us in total. And I am the newest member of that five person steering committee.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:55] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;ve been part of the DevRel foundation since June of this year. [00:01:00] And the foundations, the start of it had, I think, started way before that even before the beginning of the year. And the involvement with the Linux foundation happens like I think in around the February timeframe. And so the thought is that there are Certain types of challenges that are unique to people in dev rel defining what we do is one of them that I think is something that people are familiar with, but others that have been lingering around about how do you measure dev rel and like adequately, like, how do you plan for the future and how do you roll out a developer relations program?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:35] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Those are like the broad strokes of it. So the thought of the Dev Rel foundation is to be a nonpartisan home for these types of discussions. And we are currently set up as the steering committee, as people who are trying to facilitate those conversations, give structure and processing of what timeline we should have these conversations and be helped, like [00:02:00] with the being a home to people to find this, Information once we have it all created and to be a repository for a lot of existing knowledge, but also allow the connection tissue to create new knowledge that is not there right now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:16] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So that\u0026#39;s like the whole arc of it. Depending on when you\u0026#39;re listening to this podcast, we are currently enrolling people to take on and champion these specific areas of topics. Here are the lists that we\u0026#39;ve aggregated from the community of the challenges.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:33] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And we\u0026#39;re looking for managers to say I want to champion that and run it to ground to make sure that we actually have things defined to help us all as dev or all practitioners. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:43] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And I want to zero in because I think that some people I was in the initial meeting kickoff thing that happened back in June and there was a concern and it was oh, this is a town hall, not really a feedback thing, but more of a town hall where we\u0026#39;ll come and tell you what we think is [00:03:00] good and you can come and tell us if you don\u0026#39;t think it\u0026#39;s good.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:03] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e But what it really is is a participative activity. Not everybody wants to, and that\u0026#39;s okay. But the idea is really behind let\u0026#39;s put together a compendium of knowledge about what we do and put that so that when people reference it, they can easily say, this is the way it works.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:22] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s a constantly moving organic body. It\u0026#39;s similar to software. There is nothing done on this. Would that, do you think that\u0026#39;s accurate? Great. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:31] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think that initially I was on that initial feedback preview call as well. And that session, I think, raised a lot of awareness about how developed the thought was of where things were going to go and how open to input.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:47] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e The foundation was to the community and letting the community shape the direction and the focus of the foundation. And I think to its credit, the foundation has taken a lot of that into heart. [00:04:00] And I think that\u0026#39;s when I joined actually because of that call or after that call. A lot of the work that I\u0026#39;ve done, at least on the initial side, was finding a way to make sure that the community\u0026#39;s voice is heard.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:12] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And then once we get all of this feedback, how do we actually act on it? Because it feels like if you think about the possibilities, the developer relations, there\u0026#39;s just so much out there. How do we choose which ones that we\u0026#39;re going to help move forward? And I devised or helped with the rest of the people in the steering committee and other feedback.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:31] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e From people like you, PJ, about how we address the needs of the community in a way that doesn\u0026#39;t feel exclusionary. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:39] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Think exclusionary is the word you\u0026#39;re looking for. Yeah. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:40] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And also how do we actually be productive to actually move forward instead of having constant discussions all the time and where do we actually make sure that it was the right time to do action?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:52] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Wesley, I got a question. I feel like a lot of our episodes, we generally take a stance on [00:05:00] when it comes to implementing certain things that it just depends on the situation of the organization, the team, the objectives of the org that they\u0026#39;re in, there\u0026#39;s always just like so many dependencies and variables that go into an implementation of things to take a stance on, how certain aspects or certain elements of developer relations Has found success.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:23] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m wondering if there\u0026#39;s plans or if there\u0026#39;s been any discussion on including lots of different implementation scenarios rather than trying to be one single source of truth, because I feel like that\u0026#39;s probably going to be some pushback and going to be some feedback that maybe we hear from this type of organization or foundation, of what goals do we have about putting into concrete terms what.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:48] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e developer relations is or isn\u0026#39;t when we know that there\u0026#39;s just so many ways to do it, Startups are going to do it one way enterprise is going to do it a different One part of the world\u0026#39;s going to do it in one way [00:06:00] versus others so Anyway, just curious what your thoughts are on that \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:04] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, there\u0026#39;s different verticals, like there\u0026#39;s regulated industries like fintech, there are different areas like nonprofit work and open source software as opposed to closed source software.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:14] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Then there is developer first, and then there\u0026#39;s developer plus then you mentioned different languages, but there\u0026#39;s also different geos and there\u0026#39;s also different access to technologies, like parts of the developing world where steady connected electricity and internet is not something that\u0026#39;s.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:31] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So there\u0026#39;s many different facets. So the answer is, we are trying to be as inclusive as possible by making sure that people have the opportunity to put forth their specific concern. At the same time, we are requiring that as groups are formed around these topics, that there are at least three managers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:56] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e To each of these topics to make sure that there\u0026#39;s not [00:07:00] one perspective that\u0026#39;s running the show. And then each of these topics, the managers need to recruit at least eight participants. This is to increase the diversity and the different ways that people see things and to make sure that these edge cases or main cases are incorporated into the final result.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:20] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And last, but not least, this is supposed to be an iterative process. So whatever the group Creates, it will be posted to GitHub and you can, and everyone and anyone can put in pull requests so that their voices are heard and their perspectives are also taken into account. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:39] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And you\u0026#39;re saying all this and for those of you who are listening to the audio and saying, wow, Wesley really has this down.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:44] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Wesley has very much structured this and put it into a GitHub document for people to interact with and understand. And I think this that allayed a lot of my concerns when this first came up, because I was like, is this an exercise in student government where the most popular kids [00:08:00] will be voted into their positions of power.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:01] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And everyone else will just sit by the wayside with no voice. And Wesley was very careful to design a way in which that wasn\u0026#39;t. I think one of the, one of the things that I liked the most about the structure of this, and we\u0026#39;ll add the link to the GitHub and the show notes, but one of the things that I really enjoyed about the structure of this was that anyone who is a manager for only a certain period of time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:24] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e This isn\u0026#39;t a situation where you are, to use the term, they often use an open source project. You\u0026#39;re a benevolent dictator for life. Which is that, that\u0026#39;s your Linus\u0026#39;s and Your David Heinemeyer Handwritten. It\u0026#39;s great that you create this thing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:37] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Please let other people as it evolves, take it over. And that\u0026#39;s baked into the design. And I feel like we\u0026#39;re laying a lot on Wesley here. And I think that there\u0026#39;s varying differences between what even the people on this podcast are doing as far as level of participation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:51] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Like I\u0026#39;m a passive participant. I\u0026#39;ve been watching what\u0026#39;s going on, participating in the discord. Talking to some people about some things, but I\u0026#39;m not a manager. [00:09:00] Wesley\u0026#39;s a part of the steering committee. Mary had, is that some of those initial meetings are taking a step back due to some busy work related things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:07] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And Jason, are you in the collective? Are you in the discussion or are you just an external passive observer at this point in time?. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:16] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Definitely a passive observer. I think, just through knowing Wesley and the conversations we have here and there I may be a little closer tHand others in terms of just, when I started hearing about it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:27] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e But yeah, at this point I\u0026#39;m not involved. Other than, like I said, just conversations I\u0026#39;ve had with Wesley. But definitely curious to learn more about what\u0026#39;s going on with it. And I quite honestly, I don\u0026#39;t have a lot of depth in knowledge around any of the Linux foundations or any just foundations in general.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:45] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I don\u0026#39;t know if Wesley, if that\u0026#39;s something you can dig a little deeper into, like what would somebody who has no knowledge of what the Linux Foundation is and any of the offshoots of that, like what are the core benefits? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:57] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I gotta say that there\u0026#39;s something that I have to [00:10:00] say about the Linox Foundation in general is that the foundation is an umbrella of other open source projects. So Linux itself is a Linux Foundation project. Git. Is a Linux foundation project. And there\u0026#39;s several other Valky is also big and new and it was just launched at the open source summit.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:21] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e In September. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:23] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Don\u0026#39;t forget about that. Dang Kubernetes that people keep talking about. The kids are all under the coop. Yep. CNCF is \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:28] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e underneath. Yep. The CNCF is under the Linux foundation. Those projects that you know, and love have come under that same umbrella.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:36] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e But I have to say the dev rel foundation is different tHand any of those are in all of the other projects because that this feels more of, A governance body or like a list of documents and not necessarily focused on code and making a product from that standpoint, which I think is a little bit different.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:58] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And the question is [00:11:00] why the Linux foundation, and we have a lot of these addressed in our FAQ, if you go to the But for my take that we wanted a place in a home. That was nonpartisan, meaning like it\u0026#39;s not owned by a company or someone with specific interests. One that has a history of supporting software and open source processes and making sure it\u0026#39;s community like the way that we come to decisions is open to the community and the community can participate \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:32] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I can\u0026#39;t think of any that checks all of the boxes. So it\u0026#39;s part of the Linux Foundation because it is one that does already have a reputation. They are giving us resources and supporting us from a process standpoint. And it allows us to have access to other projects and maintainers and people who\u0026#39;ve been doing this way longer tHand we have.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:55] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And so being under that umbrella also gives us that connection and [00:12:00] of the siblings who are also in the project. But also just to make sure that it is noted that we are unfunded product projects under the Linux foundation. So we were not trying to make money. No, one\u0026#39;s giving us money. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:14] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s just right now it\u0026#39;s all community and volunteer work. That\u0026#39;s in the found formation of this foundation. So it\u0026#39;s our passions that are driving it. So if there are better suggestions, we are open to hear it. But right now the Linux Foundation sounds like a really good choice and they\u0026#39;ve been an excellent partner for us.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:36] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Without her support and her guidance and her doing the intros and her doing a lot of the heavy lifting I think we wouldn\u0026#39;t have gotten as far as we have right now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:47] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it\u0026#39;s interesting you mention that because I know that organically around I had been talking for a couple years with people. Wesley, you and I had a conversation that I think is now two and a half years ago about putting together some sort [00:13:00] governance document, some sort of something to say, this is DevRel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:05] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e This is the way it worked. This is, giving some sort of guideline to what this all means. I think that some people might be like the Linux foundation eyebrows raised what\u0026#39;s going on here at the same time, I think, without having that logistical support, if not the organizational support, this may never have come off because so many people were working in so many small working groups, but not really getting anywhere because they couldn\u0026#39;t figure out that logistical component, like how do we do this and not exclude people?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:32] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e How do we do this and ensure that we have the good mindshare and the diverse mindshare that we need to actually share this information. These are questions that luckily the Linux foundation has answered before, and therefore they can answer it for this. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:49] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I got to say that there\u0026#39;s been a lot of reaction to the Linux foundation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:52] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And even just the DevRel foundation. Let\u0026#39;s just talk it from there about one saying, why do we need this? That\u0026#39;s one of the feedbacks that we\u0026#39;ve gotten. The [00:14:00] other is, this is amazing. I, this is, I\u0026#39;m so excited. And then I think what Jason also said is that. I\u0026#39;m going to wait and see, so will we, will this have legs?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:11] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Will this keep going? Will this actually produce anything? Will this make a change? And when we were working on our little project back then, Jason PJ it was, some of the conversations were just like, why are we the two people? Or what, why are we the ones to be able to hold this torch and I think the Linux foundation kind of answers some of those questions in terms of it, are we a trusted organization or who legitimizes us for being a person that could have a voice?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:43] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So one more thing I wanted to touch on because I do see a lot of benefits that can come and clearly there\u0026#39;s, great examples from the Linux Foundation of success and how this kind of community effort. Can come together and really help in a lot of ways, but a concrete way that I think really [00:15:00] stands out to me that could help for a lot of those folks who are either new to developer relations or in community in general, or maybe they\u0026#39;re out on the market looking for new roles because we do hear so much of a variety in terms of what DevRel can look like.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:15] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And you see it like on new job postings where one company is looking for. With a title as a developer relations professional or some variation of that, but then looking through the description, it looks like it\u0026#39;s going to include some roles and responsibilities that have traditionally not aligned with developer relations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:32] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Oftentimes there\u0026#39;s just so much variance in terms of what DevRel roles could look like, but this might actually help. Narrow that a little bit and make it easier for both those who are looking to fill roles and those who are looking to find new roles. We\u0026#39;re all speaking the same language on what the expectations are here.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:51] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. There\u0026#39;s that centralization concept of, maybe if we can define and say, this is what DevRel looks like, then [00:16:00] maybe the hiring managers and the people at LinkedIn and indeed, and what have you, is Monster.com still a thing? I don\u0026#39;t think Monster.com is still a thing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:07] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e But maybe the people who are in charge of all of this hiring and doing all these things, maybe they can finally have a good definition to understand that maybe you\u0026#39;re not looking for a developer advocate or a developer relations specialist, maybe you\u0026#39;re actually looking for someone in marketing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:24] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe you\u0026#39;re actually looking for a sales engineer. Who\u0026#39;s technically minded, but they\u0026#39;re to speak to onboard clients. Maybe you\u0026#39;re even looking for customer success. Because like you said, Jason, I\u0026#39;ve looked at a lot of these job descriptions, especially over here that I was unemployed.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:39] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And a lot of these people do not understand that their questions that they\u0026#39;re asking or that the positions they\u0026#39;re describing are not developer relations positions, but. The buzzwords here. So let\u0026#39;s go with what we got. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:52] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And also to be frank, these questions have been answered and probably it\u0026#39;s been answered multiple [00:17:00] times by different people and everyone who\u0026#39;s been in DevRel for a very long time can see and read these and say, that\u0026#39;s actually valid.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:09] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Someone who\u0026#39;s brand new may not have that ability to distinguish what is. Actually something that makes sense. I think the DevRel foundation will help those new people to be able to do some of that work for them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:21] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Not necessarily have to create all this new documentation and resources, but aggregating some of the things that are out there that is really good, high quality work that we can help with bringing them into the fold and allowing people to use us as a central point to jump off and find these other resources.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:38] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, that\u0026#39;s awesome. And I think that I\u0026#39;m looking forward to seeing what comes out of it. People should not have an expectation. Let\u0026#39;s set some boundaries here. People should not have an expectation that like come January one, the dev rel foundation is about to drop the hottest mixtape you\u0026#39;ve ever heard about dev rel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:54] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e These things are going to take time. Yes, we have hope, but hope takes work. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:59] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e [00:18:00] And 1 of the things that we\u0026#39;re asking or requiring for all these groups that form is that they give at least a monthly update on 1 of our open calls and open meetings that we do every week.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:10] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e If you want to stay abreast about the progress take a look in at. Our GitHub and look at what the process we\u0026#39;re working and fostering. And also just, if you have input jump into one of these calls and just talk to the people who are championing these directly. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:26] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Or at the very least jump in the discord and see what the conversation is.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:29] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yep. I think there\u0026#39;s a lot of good conversation going on over there as well. And with that, thank you for giving us space to talk about this. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@raminix?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\"\u003eRamin Khatibi\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/photos/gray-steel-building-frame-dJ1VMl-rJkU?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In this episode, Wesley, PJ, and Jason take the opportunity to talk about a new phenomenon - The DevRel Foundation from the Linux Foundation. Learn how folks have gotten involved, what the Foundation intends to do, and how you can share your voice.","date_published":"2025-01-03T05:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/dbcf7398-b5f8-4b39-925c-5c3e26d59e5b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":55119334,"duration_in_seconds":1360}]},{"id":"78e4855e-17b7-4474-9ab1-48460d6bc0f7","title":"DevRel Hiring is Broken (Ep 92)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/92-devrel-hiring-is-broken","content_text":"It comes as no surprise that something in the hiring of Developer Relations practitioners has become a mystery box of confusion. No standard path to follow, interviews ranging all over the map, homework assignments that go nowhere, and most conversations leading to few actual opportunities.\n\nTopics Discussed:\nIntroduction to the Issue of Hiring in DevRel:\nThe episode addresses the ongoing challenges in hiring for Developer Relations (DevRel), with a focus on the unique issues facing professionals in this field.\nWesley Faulkner kicks off the discussion, sharing his personal experience of job hunting and highlighting several systemic issues within the hiring process for DevRel roles.\n\nKey Problems with Hiring in DevRel:\nPJ Haggerty highlights the broken nature of DevRel hiring, emphasizing:\n\n\nKeyword-based filtering in job applications, which often misses qualified candidates.\nA mismatch in expectations for the role, as companies frequently confuse DevRel with marketing, pre-sales, or customer success.\nThe flood of inexperienced applicants who may be interested in DevRel but lack the necessary technical or industry experience.\n\n\nJason Hand adds that the mismatch between job descriptions and the actual needs of companies is another key issue, as job seekers often face unrealistic expectations (e.g., hiring for a \"unicorn\" candidate).\nAdditionally, salary mismatches are discussed, where companies expect highly experienced candidates but offer entry-level compensation.\n\nChallenges with Job Descriptions and Expectations:\nWesley Faulkner points out that DevRel is often not properly listed as a category in job boards or applicant tracking systems (ATS), leading to candidates being overlooked or categorized incorrectly.\n\nThe language around DevRel roles varies significantly across industries, and this results in job descriptions being vague or overly broad, making it difficult for potential candidates to identify if the job aligns with their skills.\n\nHiring Managers' Lack of DevRel Expertise: Even people within DevRel leadership positions (e.g., Directors or VPs of DevRel) often lack a broad perspective of how DevRel functions across different companies, leading to myopic decision-making during the interview process.\n\nThe Role of Recruiters and Automation in the Hiring Process:\nThe episode dives into how AI and automation are increasingly used in the hiring process, but Wesley notes that the vast array of DevRel-related tasks (e.g., social media, technical documentation, community engagement) makes it difficult to define clear keywords for candidates.\n\nJason Hand discusses how recruiters who lack a deep understanding of DevRel can exacerbate the problem, often overlooking candidates who don't fit the narrow criteria set by automated systems, while also failing to match candidates with roles that align with their skills.\n\nThe Myth of the “DevRel Influencer” and Burnout:\nThe conversation shifts to the misconception that DevRel professionals should be “influencers” with large social media followings. This unrealistic expectation, especially from startups or new companies, distorts the role of DevRel and damages the overall hiring landscape.\n\nWesley Faulkner also discusses how burnout is common in DevRel roles due to unrealistic expectations and the volatile nature of the profession, where individuals often jump between short-term roles due to a lack of clear objectives or proper resourcing.\n\nJob Hopping in DevRel:\nThe issue of job hopping is discussed, with Jason Hand and PJ Haggerty pointing out that the DevRel space has a high turnover rate, often due to factors like burnout, misaligned expectations, and lack of investment in the role by employers.\n\nWesley Faulkner links job hopping to the failure of organizations to resource and value DevRel properly, causing professionals to leave quickly for better opportunities.\n\nSolutions and Hope for the Future:\nPJ Haggerty concludes the conversation by noting that despite the frustration, there is hope for the future of DevRel hiring. He points out that as more documentation and resources (e.g., from initiatives like the DevRel Foundation) emerge, organizations will gain a better understanding of the value DevRel brings.\n\nThey also stress the importance of clarity in job descriptions and education for recruiters about the true nature of DevRel roles.\n\nKey Takeaways:\n\n\nDevRel hiring is broken, with issues including keyword filtering, unclear job descriptions, unrealistic expectations, and mismatched compensation.\nRecruiters often lack understanding of what DevRel professionals actually do, leading to poor hiring outcomes.\nBurnout and job hopping are prevalent in DevRel due to unrealistic expectations and lack of proper support from organizations.\nClearer definitions of DevRel and better alignment between hiring needs and candidate expectations are essential for improving the situation.\nThe DevRel Foundation and other educational resources offer hope for improving how DevRel is defined and valued within organizations.\n\n\nAction Items:\n\n\nRecruiters and Hiring Managers: Educate themselves about the full scope of DevRel roles and ensure job descriptions accurately reflect the true nature of the work.\nDevRel Professionals: Be prepared to answer questions about the specific value you bring to an organization and ensure the role aligns with your skills and expectations.\nDevRel Community: Contribute to resources like the DevRel Foundation to help shape better industry standards for hiring and defining DevRel roles.\n\n\nKey Words and Themes:\nDevRel Hiring\nKeyword Filtering\nJob Descriptions\nSalary Mismatch\nDevRel Influencer Myth\nBurnout\nJob Hopping\nRecruiter Education\nDevRel Foundation\nAutomation in Hiring\nUnrealistic Expectations\nRole Clarity\n\nTranscript\n\n[00:00:00] Wesley Faulkner: Welcome back to the Community Pulse. My name is Wesley Faulkner. And today we are bringing in a subject matter. That's near and dear to my heart. And this is hiring in DevRel as a person who's currently looking for a new role. I've seen things that I haven't seen before since the last time I was on the job hub.\n\n[00:00:16] Wesley Faulkner: To start this topic, we have Jason Hand and PJ Haggerty here with me for us to have this kind of impromptu conversation to dive deep into the subject and I'll kick us off with the first question. What do you think is broken with DevRel hiring? And we'll start with you, PJ. \n\n[00:00:33] PJ Haggerty: I almost want to answer, not flippantly, but seriously, what isn't broken with DevRel hiring?\n\n[00:00:40] PJ Haggerty: I feel like that's a shorter list. I think that there's a few things that are wrong. One of the things that I think is a general tech issue is that the filtering and distilling of appropriate people and resumes is based on keyword searches and some SEO and maybe some AI magic in [00:01:00] the background.\n\n[00:01:00] PJ Haggerty: That's causing people that are completely valid candidates to get booted out of situations. The evolution of DevRel and what that means is becoming a huge factor because I think a lot of people are thinking that it means I get an extra marketer or I get someone who does pre sales or, like we're still fighting this constant battle of defining DevRel.\n\n[00:01:19] PJ Haggerty: And I know we talked a little bit in the last episode about DevRel maturity, but I still think that a vast majority of our jobs revolve around explaining what we do. And then you just add to that the glut of people who want to be in DevRel versus the hyper minority of people who are actually experienced in the job.\n\n[00:01:39] PJ Haggerty: But because there's so many people there's a big signal to noise ratio issue. A lot of people want to do this. But the actual signal, the people who are qualified, the people who are experienced, the people who can do it is a very limited number of people. And I think all of those things contribute to the currently horrible, frankly, horrible situation in hiring [00:02:00] endeavor.\n\n[00:02:00] PJ Haggerty: And I know that. Wesley, you're going through it right now. I think a lot of our listeners know I just finished going through it a few months ago, and it was like a 7 month slog of absolutely nightmarish hiring practice. \n\n[00:02:11] PJ Haggerty: What do you got, Jay? \n\n[00:02:15] Jason Hand: What I got was that, I agree with all of that. And as somebody who was laid off a little over a year ago, spent a good amount of time and energy into the whole process of submitting resumes and going through rounds and rounds of interviews and also doing that while injured, it was not a great experience.\n\n[00:02:35] Jason Hand: So I empathize with everybody who's been through a layoff-like situation. Because it is, it's traumatic. And to find them for myself, a place that has been a good landing and a good, just opportunity for me has, I think I've helped, I've seen the full arc, basically. For being super in a low place and then suddenly feeling like, you've returned to what you did [00:03:00] previously and landed on your feet.\n\n[00:03:01] Jason Hand: So it's a scary thing in general. And right now from a lot of the folks that I'm close to, Wesley being one, PJ being one there's several others in the industry and the community that I am real close friends with that have also recently been laid off. I feel like a broken record reaching out to everybody and like offering support and saying, I'm going to forward everything I get to you.\n\n[00:03:26] Jason Hand: Because one of the things that I guess for me to point out as what's broken or things that I think are broken is I know a lot of people who are looking, but I also know of a lot of roles that are open. If you could just put a finger on what's broken, we can't fill the roles.\n\n[00:03:42] Jason Hand: And some of them are there, some of them have changed some of them. Like I think PJ really pointed out a really big problem is there's a mismatch on expectations of what somebody who is a DevRel professional does. And some of that has to do with just language, across different languages.\n\n[00:03:57] Jason Hand: Industries and what we refer to as DevRel and [00:04:00] DevExperience. DevExperience at Datadog is quite a bit different from DevExperience at a lot of other companies. And so I have to keep in mind that there's not often a one to one mapping on what people are talking about just within DevRel.\n\n[00:04:12] Jason Hand: So that's a big problem right there. When you have a recruiter who only is going off of a script and going off of the details from resumes and job requests. Job descriptions, they don't know the nuance and know that there's this language thing. So that's problem number one. I also think that since COVID a lot of us are just rewired or wired to really have a strong allergic reaction to coming back into the office.\n\n[00:04:38] Jason Hand: And that is a big problem. I think in general, for a lot of companies is the return to office situations and how that changes. \n\n[00:04:47] PJ Haggerty: 100%. \n\n[00:04:47] Jason Hand: It was just a lot of family situations. They can't just change it, and so that's a whole other episode to talk about, especially the folks and friends over at Amazon.\n\n[00:04:56] Jason Hand: I also think in my experience that when I see [00:05:00] some of the job postings that are out there, they're really looking for a unicorn. They're looking for a superstar person. And it's usually like a startup, with the general, like standard, like startup rockstar language, things like that.\n\n[00:05:13] Jason Hand: But so they want somebody who's done a lot of stuff and can wear a lot of hats and has a successful portfolio showing that they've done that. In their past but the compensation rarely is even close to matching what you're asking for. You're asking for somebody who's senior or above, but you're paying for some, something that's a little bit more entry level.\n\n[00:05:35] Jason Hand: And so I see that a problem too, is like the, just a huge mismatch on expectations versus compensation. And then the last one I'll say is that I think that DevRel has evolved, has changed like everything, and some of the language has changed, and there's new people in the community, and all of that has just caused everything to just change over time, \n\n[00:05:57] Jason Hand: push and pull on what I was talking about with language and what we [00:06:00] refer to as certain things within DevRel. And I also think just the evolution of technology in general, like DevOps, has like a similar problem where it was very clear what all that was. And now it's a little squishy and, but you can point to some companies that are super successful at it and then others where they're like laying off people.\n\n[00:06:18] Jason Hand: I think it's, stuff like that is so hard to put a pin on, put your finger on because it's so complex, and it has everything to do with also just economies of the world and upcoming elections \n\n[00:06:29] Jason Hand: and it's like hard to put a finger on how to fix it, so that's what, three or four things for me that don't feel like what's broken, but one of the things I told Wesley and PJ before we got on here is I don't really know. I have the same experience as a lot of people and how bad it is, also some success stories in there, but I don't know if I have any suggestions to help fix it.\n\n[00:06:48] Jason Hand: Cause I feel like I'm in the mix trying to fix it. Being part of interviews and the process of hiring and now not just being somebody on the sideline, who's just complaining about it. Like I'm actually part of the system now. So it makes me part of the [00:07:00] problem, and I don't know if I have a real clear solution. So that was my one fear of, the subject today. \n\n[00:07:09] Wesley Faulkner: We could, the first step is acknowledging that there's a problem. \n\n[00:07:12] Jason Hand: There is a problem \n\n[00:07:13] Wesley Faulkner: initially that if people don't understand the landscape, then that's step number one.\n\n[00:07:17] PJ Haggerty: Yeah. I think there's an expansionist too. This is a tech in general problem. Cause Jason, you brought up a few things and I know Wesley, we haven't asked you what you think the factors are but just to dial in on something that Jason said, this is a tech wide problem, I think, where it's like, Hey, you know what we do when we interview people, we have an inexperienced HR person who is not technical go through a system of preexisting documentation that says, this is what we want.\n\n[00:07:44] PJ Haggerty: And it's kicked out. Maybe they chat to you, PT it, put it up on LinkedIn and they said it's nice to have, but the HR person thinks that's a must haves. So you've already lost yourself with one level of filter. Then we have 17 interviews. And then one of them's a technical interview where we make you write code.\n\n[00:07:58] PJ Haggerty: Yeah. This is still a [00:08:00] problem for tech in general, DevRel specifically, but tech in general has not figured out how to hire people. No one has disrupted the hiring space looking at your startups. None of you have done it. You tried with a glass door and greenhouse and all of those, all those are just apps to do the same thing that monster did in 1996.\n\n[00:08:19] PJ Haggerty: Like you're not doing anything new. Nothing's been disrupted. You just change the name of your website. None of the three of us on this call, or probably anyone who's listening has the power to do this on a large scale, but I think it's worthwhile talking about it because the more people talk about it, more attention is brought to it.\n\n[00:08:36] PJ Haggerty: Sorry, that was my little rant. Wesley, what do you think is contributing to this issue? \n\n[00:08:42] Wesley Faulkner: One of the things that I think is part of it is I know you mentioned about the ATS the applicant tracking systems that don't have the right keywords or something going through that, but also as a person who's just trying to use whatever these employments are.\n\n[00:08:57] Wesley Faulkner: Websites are, I'm not going to name any by specifics, [00:09:00] but DevRel is not really a drop down. You can do marketing, you can do sales, you can do all these different things. DevRel as a profession is not listed as even a way to be discovered or to label yourself. And so that means that you are more prone to being abused or skipped over by keywords because that is the primary way of how they find people rather than people who are doing the profession already.\n\n[00:09:22] Wesley Faulkner: So I think that's one of the ways it's just not being able to identify yourself as a candidate for a specific industry or role. The other is. \n\n[00:09:31] PJ Haggerty: No, I just agree with you. \n\n[00:09:32] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah. The other is getting past these JDs looking at them because of this lack of understanding about DevRel, they really are looking for the unicorn candidate by putting a whole bunch of things there.\n\n[00:09:44] Wesley Faulkner: But what is also missing is the thing that they're trying to fix or solve or why they need a person who is in that position. So they're really focused on getting the right person and so as a candidate, it's harder to self-identify your [00:10:00] alignment with the job and a role in a way that's actually more accurate than they say, we need someone with this many deals of experience or this doing this industry, and so on and so forth with her just characteristics of a person rather than someone who can tackle an issue. Because let's say I've done DevRel for a lot of database companies. Does that mean that I couldn't do DevRel for an analytics company? I think that they're exactly, \n\n[00:10:26] Wesley Faulkner: So they're listing the things that they're needing rather than listing the problems, which means that, yeah, I guess I don't check all the boxes, but I don't understand why that it's a box that needs to be checked related to what you need after getting through the phone screen or interview process is just understanding, like it's, and that gets to my last point, which is a big majority of DevRel is being hired by people who don't know DevRel.\n\n[00:10:50] Wesley Faulkner: And I know we've touched on this, but it's also a little bit more than that. So even when I've had interviews with directors of DevRel [00:11:00] or VPs of DevRel or heads of DevRel or people who have done DevRel or are currently doing DevRel. It can be one myopic in terms of they've only done DevRel at that company.\n\n[00:11:11] Wesley Faulkner: And so that they're in that kind of comfort zone of how DevRel is done there, and they're looking to replicate that. Or number two, they may have more experience doing DevRel. The rounds and rounds of interview that you were mentioning, PJ. Sometimes it's like you talk to someone in marketing, you talk to customer service, you talk to all these other departments that need to get a buy in for this role, where if it was in the other role, you wouldn't have to run the gauntlet of all these other departments in some ways, good, but it amplifies the error or the problem where people are giving opinions based on their own experiences, being someone in sales or being someone in marketing or being in someone in product, not saying that they shouldn't have a hand.\n\n[00:11:51] Wesley Faulkner: And the interview process, but they think what they know, being a practitioner is way different than banning an armchair [00:12:00] quarterback and saying I think you should have passed, not run on that play, or he should've gone for it on fourth down.\n\n[00:12:05] Wesley Faulkner: It's easy to make that call when you don't have the skin in the game and you don't know all of the context. And I think that's the art part of the problem with the interview loops. \n\n[00:12:13] PJ Haggerty: It's a funny cause. On both sides is as an interviewer and an interviewee. I've had situations where I've been interviewing someone, I'm like, I have no idea why I'm interviewing you.\n\n[00:12:22] PJ Haggerty: It has nothing to do with what I do. You will not work with my department. I think they just randomly wanted to throw an extra person on for culture fit, which is such a bullshit term. And then on the other side, I've had people that I'm interviewing for the job and they've told me straight up, they're like, I don't know why I'm the person interviewing you.\n\n[00:12:37] PJ Haggerty: I'm not sure why I'm here, except for there's some sort of org chart somewhere that draws a line between me and what you might be doing. And it's not unusual. But I think that also going back to one of your earlier points, when you mentioned that a lot of times these job descriptions are saying we want X, Y, and Z.\n\n[00:12:55] PJ Haggerty: And we're going to build it this way, but they're not telling you the problem. The [00:13:00] one of the things that I found tripped me up a lot of interviews, I'd say, okay, so what problem are you trying to solve with DevRel? What's not being met right now with what you currently have? Why are you hiring for DevRel?\n\n[00:13:11] PJ Haggerty: And people really don't like it when you ask them why they're doing the thing that would give you the job. I'm relatively sure I probably missed out on some opportunities, not just because of my smart mouth, but because I really need that question answered. What do you think? Dev rel is what do you think a dev advocate does?\n\n[00:13:28] PJ Haggerty: What do you think I'm going to do in this role at this company? This isn't a, where do I see myself in a five year situation? What is my day to day? What do you think it's supposed to be? Don't ask me. I already know what the job is. I've been doing this for 15 years. You got to tell me if you actually are trying to hire the right person.\n\n[00:13:47] Jason Hand: Yeah, I think it's a mixture. I don't know if it's an intentional bait and switch either. \n\n[00:13:50] PJ Haggerty:  people are just literally, they don't know what they're looking for.\n\n[00:13:54] Jason Hand: Yeah, I think it's probably a majority of that. I do think that there may be some times out there where [00:14:00] people are just like, Yeah, I've seen some other companies have success in dev rel, and we want some of that \n\n[00:14:04] PJ Haggerty: and I think with startups, sometimes it's a, the board or the investors come in and say, Hey, we've got things that you should do yet, things that you should do.\n\n[00:14:12] PJ Haggerty: And one of the things is to hire a developer advocate. And I've seen that at companies that don't have a consumer and or developer facing product, and it's like, why? \n\n[00:14:22] Jason Hand: Yeah. I remember I, maybe I was, I thought I was telling you about this PJ, but maybe it was somebody else. I'm on TikTok occasionally.\n\n[00:14:29] Jason Hand: And I came across this one story that I was like, Oh, actually that's a very similar kind of metaphor for what's going on in DevRel and probably some other places too. But there was this story of this woman who found a job listing online, applied for it, and did an online interview. Everything was great.\n\n[00:14:47] Jason Hand: It was like a sales role, I think. And then eventually you had to go to the site for training. And then it wasn't until, and that was probably like the fourth interview or something that happened. And it wasn't until [00:15:00] she got there that she learned that the first thing you do is you go and work like a kiosk at the mall.\n\n[00:15:06] Jason Hand: And then from there, you graduate and go to another place. And then you finally would get to the actual job that she thought she was applying for in the first place. Hopefully doesn't apply to a lot of dev rel, but I know that, in general, people aren't always forthcoming in high turnover positions.\n\n[00:15:25] Jason Hand: And I think maybe there's this conception that what I fear, the biggest thing for a lot of people in our community is that they don't realize that their own personality, like their own online presence, like they're themselves, what makes them unique is. Is the value. And so if you damage that by saying, in any way, really, then you've diminished your own value.\n\n[00:15:49] Jason Hand: And a big part of that is being challenged, I think, with a lot of the just mismatched understandings of what DevRel does, \n\n[00:15:59] PJ Haggerty: right. And [00:16:00] I think that we still have an issue with some people who really want to get into DevRel because they perceive it as this.\n\n[00:16:06] PJ Haggerty: Lifestyle party. I'm going to travel the world. And it really, it wasn't that before COVID. And it really isn't like that now. I think the people that I saw that even a good bulk of their work was conferences and speaking and doing speaking engagements. A lot of those people are not doing that so much anymore, and they're doing other kinds of content.\n\n[00:16:26] PJ Haggerty: They're doing videos, they're doing podcasts, they're doing, whatever, webinars. But like not the number of people that are still, hardcore road dogs, being being out and doing 25 and 30 conferences a year, that number has diminished to a near to zero number.\n\n[00:16:43] PJ Haggerty: There's just not that many people doing it anymore. So if you're coming into DevRel and you're thinking, I'm going to have this great life where I travel all the time and it's going to be easy and you have very little experience and very little technical know-how. I'm going to ask you to do us all a favor for those [00:17:00] of us who are looking for jobs and don't apply.\n\n[00:17:03] PJ Haggerty: Don't apply. This isn't a job for you. We're not influencers. We're not. Instagram, TikTok stars. \n\n[00:17:09] Jason Hand: Only watermelon, \n\n[00:17:10] PJ Haggerty: watermelon. Like three people get that and the rest of us will move on. But if you're looking for a job where you can travel and.\n\n[00:17:17] PJ Haggerty: Don't worry about the technical repercussions of the things that you do. Join an airline or something. Don't get into DevRel. The flood of people that are not qualified to do this job, I think, are another major factor of why we're not able to get hired when we have lots of experience.\n\n[00:17:32] PJ Haggerty: Because it costs a lot of money. And it's not like an exorbitant amount of money. I don't get paid as much as middle management execs that do basically nothing all day. But, it does cost a lot to hire me because I have years of experience. Those who are hiring should not cut corners and say I'll hire someone who has very little technical experience and very little DevRel experience just so that I can pay them less than 100, 000 a year.\n\n[00:17:56] PJ Haggerty: This is, I think, another reason why we're not getting, we do [00:18:00] command a higher set salary and in the same way that I think with engineers that's going away. I think we have to start working on what it is. We're what value we're bringing to the situation that makes us earn that high level of pay.\n\n[00:18:16] Jason Hand: No, I have something to come. I'd like to come back to that too, because I feel like we don't really focus on hiring junior people, junior level people as much, and we don't really have a method of bringing people up from let's say new recruits out of college internships, stuff like that, maybe you see it here and there, but generally speaking, it's not.\n\n[00:18:34] Jason Hand: So I'd love to come back to that because I do think that there's space for people who are more junior, but like you pointed out, there's lots of us who have been doing this for a long time. And we take on a lot of the responsibilities and just, there's a lot more things that we can accomplish, than a junior person.\n\n[00:18:50] Jason Hand: But I want to go back to, Wesley was talking about during your process of looking for new jobs and it's frustrating because a [00:19:00] lot of the systems that are out there using keywords and there's probably AI involved to do a lot of filtering and sorting and stuff like that. I'm just curious about your thoughts around if.\n\n[00:19:10] Jason Hand: There is some automation being put in place, or if there's just something that's making it so that the keywords are so important, what prevents people from just putting in all the keywords to help them, basically game the system and try to increase their odds. Or you think that's what people are already doing and that still doesn't.\n\n[00:19:29] Jason Hand: Still doesn't like help. \n\n[00:19:32] Wesley Faulkner: I think because it's the eye of the beholder there, when you're talking about DevRel, it could be any tool based developer plus whatever company. And so that's what an infinite amount of keywords that it could be. For instance, social media needs to be a keyword there. For someone who's looking for someone to post on social media, but also let's say I wanted to work on technical documentation.\n\n[00:19:55] Wesley Faulkner: Does that need to be there too? Since DevRel is also very [00:20:00] vast and very distributed in that way. You could overload it with keywords, but as a job seeker getting quality roles or getting filtered on the other end of what roles you're qualified for. It also poisons that as well.\n\n[00:20:17] Wesley Faulkner: So when you put all the stuff into these systems, did you start getting it? Oh, DevRel like real estate. \n\n[00:20:26] PJ Haggerty: Or like a social worker? \n\n[00:20:27] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah. If you have social media Ooh, maybe you want to do social work. I've had that experience as well as where you put too much stuff in there and you, and it just makes it it's so much that it's, you have to do all the filtering on that, that in as well.\n\n[00:20:39] Wesley Faulkner: It's a cat and mouse game in which. Either way, the candidate loses,\n\n[00:20:47] Wesley Faulkner: I don't know if that answers your question. Yeah. \n\n[00:20:48] Jason Hand: And there, yeah, no, it does. And there are a finite number of roles open at any given point too. I think it's, that's interesting the way you put it, because it [00:21:00] makes me feel like, we wear so many hats and have so many different skills that we even get pulled into other, Industries and just other areas of working opportunities that we probably wouldn't take in general, but there's some crossover there that, whether it's a good crossover or not I don't think any of us are looking to be property managers at the local community building, in our neighborhood or something.\n\n[00:21:23] PJ Haggerty: if the payer, \n\n[00:21:24] Jason Hand: my, in my experience, the recruiters, the ones who are looking are also running into that same thing. Like they're looking for Wesley. But for some reason they can't find Wesley, so that in order to find a Wesley there, they know all the things about Wesley, but all that does is bring them a list of not Wesley's and nobody's happy.\n\n[00:21:44] Jason Hand: And \n\n[00:21:44] PJ Haggerty: All that's because Wesley, I'm Wesley. I forgot that keyword. What's your name on it, man? Yeah. You should probably put your name, Wesley. I figured out the problem. You haven't been hired because you have to put your name and [00:22:00] email on the resume, or they can't contact you. I think that, that checklisty kind of AI thing is a part of it.\n\n[00:22:06] PJ Haggerty: I discovered working with some insider folks that the reason why people don't get hired often has nothing to do because we should take it into consideration. Let me boil this down to what I'm actually trying to say. We should take into consideration the other side.\n\n[00:22:20] PJ Haggerty: There is a burden as well. And that burden is that they are seeing thousands and thousands of resumes or submissions or LinkedIn applications or whatever. They are missing tons and tons of these things and they have to sift through them fairly quickly. So they have to build up a tool base. It says I can easily get through this.\n\n[00:22:41] PJ Haggerty: I almost think there should be some sort of service that says, I specifically help you hire for DevRel and we answer those questions up front so we can get through all of the bullshit and get you to the point of meeting with the candidate faster.\n\n[00:22:54] Jason Hand: And I think it has to be clear too, because there's two, one, there's two avenues here to help you with [00:23:00] connecting with the right people. That one problem is just finding Wesley. \n\n[00:23:04] Jason Hand: But then \n\n[00:23:04] Jason Hand: the second problem is once you've got him, don't fuck it up. Don't fumble here, and that's the part. I don't think that there's a lot of guidance on either, like because it's probably different in a lot of different places, but everybody has a different idea around what DevRel should be and things like that. \n\n[00:23:19] PJ Haggerty: Yeah. And as you go along, there's people that are, if there's people confused about why they're part of the process, they don't know why they're meeting Wesley.\n\n[00:23:26] PJ Haggerty: They're like, he seems like a nice guy. We had a great conversation. I don't know what the hell DevRel is. What are you asking me right now? \n\n[00:23:33] Wesley Faulkner: Absolutely. I also just like to dovetail on this like fumbling the bag, as they say I was going to point out the three ways while I'm not a good candidate.\n\n[00:23:41] Wesley Faulkner: And through this interview process, and probably a lot of people can identify with this going back to what is DevRel I think that there is a misconception of, or the poisoning of the well, using that term again, of the DevRel influencer and people wanting someone to go viral, to Make [00:24:00] tons of video content, have a huge social media following.\n\n[00:24:02] Wesley Faulkner: I still see that listed on the job description is what they want as a person. And I think that the DevRel influencer is something that feels short lived, like it was a thing. And then those people are still like, not as prominent as they were. \n\n[00:24:22] PJ Haggerty: Yeah, it lasted less time in the confederacy. \n\n[00:24:24] Wesley Faulkner: And that's still what people are looking for and thinking what dev rel is. And so I've seen that and I'm not one of those people. So I think that's part of the issue where I wash out. The other thing is the questions on how would you fix X or how would you approach this? Or what is, how do you dev rel?\n\n[00:24:42] Wesley Faulkner: Looking for definitive Answers for these very vague questions is something that I struggle with because you might be an early startup where you don't have a name for yourself. So awareness is something that's important. Or you're in an industry where it's brand new and people don't really [00:25:00] know that it exists and, or the terminology.\n\n[00:25:02] Wesley Faulkner: And so you have to do a lot of education where you have to tell people that. This is even a problem and educating them on this and why a solution of this will make their lives easier. Or it could be like a brand that's been around for years and everyone knows about, but maybe they have 5, 000 products and there's a new one.\n\n[00:25:20] Wesley Faulkner: And so you have to make sure that you can stand out between your 4, 099th product. And I have to say this 5, 000 products is actually something that's should, you should pay attention to, or it's iterative and it's a 2. 0 or a 3. 0 and why should you care if it's filled, is it incremental?\n\n[00:25:39] Wesley Faulkner: Or is it, there, there's a lot of problems within dev rel and there's a lot of companies and company positioning where not one approach works for everyone. It's extremely bespoke to understand not only what the problem set is, the company set is, but what resources do you have? Are you, do you have an agency that you're working with?\n\n[00:25:57] Wesley Faulkner: Is this internally? Do you have resources? Do you [00:26:00] have a budget? Do you have a travel budget? There are so many things that limit not only what you can do, but how you should do it and when you can do it. Do you have a big conference coming up? Do you have a big deployment coming up? Do you have a big announcement coming up?\n\n[00:26:13] Wesley Faulkner: There are some things that you cannot move, but things need to be done before that or around that. All of that stuff comes into how you approach DevRel and how you solve some of these problems. That really is, are you putting in best practices so the low hanging fruit can just, you can see immediate results?\n\n[00:26:29] Wesley Faulkner: Or are you reinventing how they've done things and cleaning up like the sloppy DevRel they did before you got hired? There are several different ways. And having to answer those questions can be a real struggle. And what you were saying, PJ, you're like, why are you hiring this? That can be something that kind of hurts.\n\n[00:26:49] Wesley Faulkner: And the last one, I'm going to bring this up. And this could be more of a me thing than anything, but job hopping. My tenure for previous roles have been very short. And people don't, I [00:27:00] don't think people understand the volatility that's around DevRel. And that's something that I think I struggle with as well as other people.\n\n[00:27:07] PJ Haggerty: Said that and I said, yes. Everybody who's been in DevRel for a while. \n\n[00:27:11] Wesley Faulkner: Yes, absolutely. It's because of some of this hiring process. They don't know what they want. They don't know how to do it. They don't resource it appropriately.\n\n[00:27:19] Wesley Faulkner: They are disinvesting. They don't even understand the value of DevRel, they don't see the value in DevRel. So a lot of those things are going into how people do DevRel and burnout is extremely prevalent with anyone who's doing developer relations.\n\n[00:27:34] Wesley Faulkner: I think that understanding of the industry from that perspective is something that's also lost on people who are hiring. \n\n[00:27:41] Jason Hand: I feel like the common theme that we I'm hearing here, and I think all of us agree is if you are looking for a place. Make sure it is crystal clear what it is that job is expecting you to do and that it aligns with who you are just as a person and somebody who has to own that [00:28:00] this is me, like I have to be Jason Hand for the future out there.\n\n[00:28:03] Jason Hand: But yeah, I think just making sure everybody's on the same page before you go into a job, because. Job hopping, I think, makes it sound like you are leaving on your own every two years.\n\n[00:28:14] Jason Hand: There's lots and lots of reasons why people leave their jobs frequently, and I think even for a long time, people were giving advice that if you're at a company longer than a couple of years, it's probably a good idea to start looking somewhere else. Cause you, you're not going to have an opportunity to level up or get a promotion or anything like that, unless you take another job somewhere.\n\n[00:28:34] PJ Haggerty: Competing \n\n[00:28:34] Jason Hand: incentives. \n\n[00:28:36] PJ Haggerty: Even beyond that, it seems when I was going through the job search process recently, people always go through your resume, explain why, so you were at this place. Why'd you leave? I was laid off. You're at this place.\n\n[00:28:45] PJ Haggerty: Why'd you leave? I was laid off. So how am I to blame for job hopping? If I get laid off every one or two years, that's a little ridiculous. \n\n[00:28:55] Jason Hand: And I think that there's probably filters somewhere that look for people who have shown [00:29:00] a history of not being all in. They come in here and they do short term, they take their paycheck and they go somewhere else.\n\n[00:29:05] Jason Hand: And I think that's what people are afraid of. But also there's lots of people who get filtered out because it looks like they did that. And that's not, that has nothing to do with why they've only kept jobs for a couple of years. So it comes down to, I think probably really informed, really skilled recruiters, maybe we need to try to educate recruiters a little bit more on what DevRel.\n\n[00:29:34] Jason Hand: We all agree that recruiting, hiring, and DevRel is broken. I think we also just agree like in tech in general, it's broken. There's some unique things around DevRel that seemed to be heavily showing some connection to just mismatch and understanding what the role is.\n\n[00:29:53] PJ Haggerty: I think it's cyclical. I think that is. Business either get a better understanding or maybe as more documentation comes up from this, [00:30:00] Linux Foundation group as people are more educated on what's going on in DevRel and who's qualified and things like that.\n\n[00:30:07] PJ Haggerty: It should improve. I hope it improves. That's all I can do because otherwise things can't carry on the way they've been going. \n\n[00:30:13] Jason Hand: Yeah, \n\n[00:30:14] PJ Haggerty: so I'm glad Wesley. I'm glad you brought this topic up. I think it's on, it's at the front of a lot of people's minds. Those who are looking, those who aren't looking, but maybe soon it seems like the level of certainty in this job area is definitely gone south.\n\n[00:30:28] PJ Haggerty: If it ever was there. So I'm glad we had a chance to talk about it and get to, and I always love when we get a chance to hang out and chat about these things. They become great episodes. I feel like this is a great episode. And I'd like to. Thank everybody for listening. \n\n[00:30:42] PJ Haggerty: Please share with us your research on what you're finding in your hiring situation. So this email has a bunch of areas about blue sky email if you want to info community policy dot. I. O. we're happy to hear from you and we'd be happy to read your messages to other folks. Thank you very much for the privilege of [00:31:00] your time.\n\n[00:31:00] PJ Haggerty: And we'll see you next time on the Community Pulse.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork by Photo by CHUTTERSNAP on Unsplash.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIt comes as no surprise that something in the hiring of Developer Relations practitioners has become a mystery box of confusion. No standard path to follow, interviews ranging all over the map, homework assignments that go nowhere, and most conversations leading to few actual opportunities.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTopics Discussed:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eIntroduction to the Issue of Hiring in DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe episode addresses the ongoing challenges in hiring for Developer Relations (DevRel), with a focus on the unique issues facing professionals in this field.\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner kicks off the discussion, sharing his personal experience of job hunting and highlighting several systemic issues within the hiring process for DevRel roles.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Problems with Hiring in DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty highlights the broken nature of DevRel hiring, emphasizing:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eKeyword-based filtering in job applications, which often misses qualified candidates.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eA mismatch in expectations for the role, as companies frequently confuse DevRel with marketing, pre-sales, or customer success.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe flood of inexperienced applicants who may be interested in DevRel but lack the necessary technical or industry experience.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand adds that the mismatch between job descriptions and the actual needs of companies is another key issue, as job seekers often face unrealistic expectations (e.g., hiring for a \u0026quot;unicorn\u0026quot; candidate).\u003cbr\u003e\nAdditionally, salary mismatches are discussed, where companies expect highly experienced candidates but offer entry-level compensation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eChallenges with Job Descriptions and Expectations:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner points out that DevRel is often not properly listed as a category in job boards or applicant tracking systems (ATS), leading to candidates being overlooked or categorized incorrectly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe language around DevRel roles varies significantly across industries, and this results in job descriptions being vague or overly broad, making it difficult for potential candidates to identify if the job aligns with their skills.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eHiring Managers\u0026#39; Lack of DevRel Expertise: Even people within DevRel leadership positions (e.g., Directors or VPs of DevRel) often lack a broad perspective of how DevRel functions across different companies, leading to myopic decision-making during the interview process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Role of Recruiters and Automation in the Hiring Process:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe episode dives into how AI and automation are increasingly used in the hiring process, but Wesley notes that the vast array of DevRel-related tasks (e.g., social media, technical documentation, community engagement) makes it difficult to define clear keywords for candidates.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand discusses how recruiters who lack a deep understanding of DevRel can exacerbate the problem, often overlooking candidates who don\u0026#39;t fit the narrow criteria set by automated systems, while also failing to match candidates with roles that align with their skills.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Myth of the “DevRel Influencer” and Burnout:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe conversation shifts to the misconception that DevRel professionals should be “influencers” with large social media followings. This unrealistic expectation, especially from startups or new companies, distorts the role of DevRel and damages the overall hiring landscape.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner also discusses how burnout is common in DevRel roles due to unrealistic expectations and the volatile nature of the profession, where individuals often jump between short-term roles due to a lack of clear objectives or proper resourcing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eJob Hopping in DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe issue of job hopping is discussed, with Jason Hand and PJ Haggerty pointing out that the DevRel space has a high turnover rate, often due to factors like burnout, misaligned expectations, and lack of investment in the role by employers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner links job hopping to the failure of organizations to resource and value DevRel properly, causing professionals to leave quickly for better opportunities.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSolutions and Hope for the Future:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Haggerty concludes the conversation by noting that despite the frustration, there is hope for the future of DevRel hiring. He points out that as more documentation and resources (e.g., from initiatives like the DevRel Foundation) emerge, organizations will gain a better understanding of the value DevRel brings.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThey also stress the importance of clarity in job descriptions and education for recruiters about the true nature of DevRel roles.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Takeaways:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRel hiring is broken, with issues including keyword filtering, unclear job descriptions, unrealistic expectations, and mismatched compensation.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eRecruiters often lack understanding of what DevRel professionals actually do, leading to poor hiring outcomes.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eBurnout and job hopping are prevalent in DevRel due to unrealistic expectations and lack of proper support from organizations.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eClearer definitions of DevRel and better alignment between hiring needs and candidate expectations are essential for improving the situation.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe DevRel Foundation and other educational resources offer hope for improving how DevRel is defined and valued within organizations.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAction Items:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eRecruiters and Hiring Managers: Educate themselves about the full scope of DevRel roles and ensure job descriptions accurately reflect the true nature of the work.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRel Professionals: Be prepared to answer questions about the specific value you bring to an organization and ensure the role aligns with your skills and expectations.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRel Community: Contribute to resources like the DevRel Foundation to help shape better industry standards for hiring and defining DevRel roles.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Words and Themes:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nDevRel Hiring\u003cbr\u003e\nKeyword Filtering\u003cbr\u003e\nJob Descriptions\u003cbr\u003e\nSalary Mismatch\u003cbr\u003e\nDevRel Influencer Myth\u003cbr\u003e\nBurnout\u003cbr\u003e\nJob Hopping\u003cbr\u003e\nRecruiter Education\u003cbr\u003e\nDevRel Foundation\u003cbr\u003e\nAutomation in Hiring\u003cbr\u003e\nUnrealistic Expectations\u003cbr\u003e\nRole Clarity\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003ch2\u003eTranscript\u003c/h2\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:00] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome back to the Community Pulse. My name is Wesley Faulkner. And today we are bringing in a subject matter. That\u0026#39;s near and dear to my heart. And this is hiring in DevRel as a person who\u0026#39;s currently looking for a new role. I\u0026#39;ve seen things that I haven\u0026#39;t seen before since the last time I was on the job hub.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:16] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e To start this topic, we have Jason Hand and PJ Haggerty here with me for us to have this kind of impromptu conversation to dive deep into the subject and I\u0026#39;ll kick us off with the first question. What do you think is broken with DevRel hiring? And we\u0026#39;ll start with you, PJ. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:33] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I almost want to answer, not flippantly, but seriously, what isn\u0026#39;t broken with DevRel hiring?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:40] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I feel like that\u0026#39;s a shorter list. I think that there\u0026#39;s a few things that are wrong. One of the things that I think is a general tech issue is that the filtering and distilling of appropriate people and resumes is based on keyword searches and some SEO and maybe some AI magic in [00:01:00] the background.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:00] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e That\u0026#39;s causing people that are completely valid candidates to get booted out of situations. The evolution of DevRel and what that means is becoming a huge factor because I think a lot of people are thinking that it means I get an extra marketer or I get someone who does pre sales or, like we\u0026#39;re still fighting this constant battle of defining DevRel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:19] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And I know we talked a little bit in the last episode about DevRel maturity, but I still think that a vast majority of our jobs revolve around explaining what we do. And then you just add to that the glut of people who want to be in DevRel versus the hyper minority of people who are actually experienced in the job.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:39] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e But because there\u0026#39;s so many people there\u0026#39;s a big signal to noise ratio issue. A lot of people want to do this. But the actual signal, the people who are qualified, the people who are experienced, the people who can do it is a very limited number of people. And I think all of those things contribute to the currently horrible, frankly, horrible situation in hiring [00:02:00] endeavor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:00] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And I know that. Wesley, you\u0026#39;re going through it right now. I think a lot of our listeners know I just finished going through it a few months ago, and it was like a 7 month slog of absolutely nightmarish hiring practice. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:11] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you got, Jay? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:15] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e What I got was that, I agree with all of that. And as somebody who was laid off a little over a year ago, spent a good amount of time and energy into the whole process of submitting resumes and going through rounds and rounds of interviews and also doing that while injured, it was not a great experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:35] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So I empathize with everybody who\u0026#39;s been through a layoff-like situation. Because it is, it\u0026#39;s traumatic. And to find them for myself, a place that has been a good landing and a good, just opportunity for me has, I think I\u0026#39;ve helped, I\u0026#39;ve seen the full arc, basically. For being super in a low place and then suddenly feeling like, you\u0026#39;ve returned to what you did [00:03:00] previously and landed on your feet.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:01] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So it\u0026#39;s a scary thing in general. And right now from a lot of the folks that I\u0026#39;m close to, Wesley being one, PJ being one there\u0026#39;s several others in the industry and the community that I am real close friends with that have also recently been laid off. I feel like a broken record reaching out to everybody and like offering support and saying, I\u0026#39;m going to forward everything I get to you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:26] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Because one of the things that I guess for me to point out as what\u0026#39;s broken or things that I think are broken is I know a lot of people who are looking, but I also know of a lot of roles that are open. If you could just put a finger on what\u0026#39;s broken, we can\u0026#39;t fill the roles.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:42] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And some of them are there, some of them have changed some of them. Like I think PJ really pointed out a really big problem is there\u0026#39;s a mismatch on expectations of what somebody who is a DevRel professional does. And some of that has to do with just language, across different languages.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:57] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Industries and what we refer to as DevRel and [00:04:00] DevExperience. DevExperience at Datadog is quite a bit different from DevExperience at a lot of other companies. And so I have to keep in mind that there\u0026#39;s not often a one to one mapping on what people are talking about just within DevRel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:12] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So that\u0026#39;s a big problem right there. When you have a recruiter who only is going off of a script and going off of the details from resumes and job requests. Job descriptions, they don\u0026#39;t know the nuance and know that there\u0026#39;s this language thing. So that\u0026#39;s problem number one. I also think that since COVID a lot of us are just rewired or wired to really have a strong allergic reaction to coming back into the office.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:38] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And that is a big problem. I think in general, for a lot of companies is the return to office situations and how that changes. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:47] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e 100%. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:47] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e It was just a lot of family situations. They can\u0026#39;t just change it, and so that\u0026#39;s a whole other episode to talk about, especially the folks and friends over at Amazon.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:56] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I also think in my experience that when I see [00:05:00] some of the job postings that are out there, they\u0026#39;re really looking for a unicorn. They\u0026#39;re looking for a superstar person. And it\u0026#39;s usually like a startup, with the general, like standard, like startup rockstar language, things like that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:13] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e But so they want somebody who\u0026#39;s done a lot of stuff and can wear a lot of hats and has a successful portfolio showing that they\u0026#39;ve done that. In their past but the compensation rarely is even close to matching what you\u0026#39;re asking for. You\u0026#39;re asking for somebody who\u0026#39;s senior or above, but you\u0026#39;re paying for some, something that\u0026#39;s a little bit more entry level.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:35] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And so I see that a problem too, is like the, just a huge mismatch on expectations versus compensation. And then the last one I\u0026#39;ll say is that I think that DevRel has evolved, has changed like everything, and some of the language has changed, and there\u0026#39;s new people in the community, and all of that has just caused everything to just change over time, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:57] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e push and pull on what I was talking about with language and what we [00:06:00] refer to as certain things within DevRel. And I also think just the evolution of technology in general, like DevOps, has like a similar problem where it was very clear what all that was. And now it\u0026#39;s a little squishy and, but you can point to some companies that are super successful at it and then others where they\u0026#39;re like laying off people.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:18] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it\u0026#39;s, stuff like that is so hard to put a pin on, put your finger on because it\u0026#39;s so complex, and it has everything to do with also just economies of the world and upcoming elections \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:29] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e and it\u0026#39;s like hard to put a finger on how to fix it, so that\u0026#39;s what, three or four things for me that don\u0026#39;t feel like what\u0026#39;s broken, but one of the things I told Wesley and PJ before we got on here is I don\u0026#39;t really know. I have the same experience as a lot of people and how bad it is, also some success stories in there, but I don\u0026#39;t know if I have any suggestions to help fix it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:48] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Cause I feel like I\u0026#39;m in the mix trying to fix it. Being part of interviews and the process of hiring and now not just being somebody on the sideline, who\u0026#39;s just complaining about it. Like I\u0026#39;m actually part of the system now. So it makes me part of the [00:07:00] problem, and I don\u0026#39;t know if I have a real clear solution. So that was my one fear of, the subject today. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:09] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e We could, the first step is acknowledging that there\u0026#39;s a problem. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:12] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e There is a problem \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:13] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e initially that if people don\u0026#39;t understand the landscape, then that\u0026#39;s step number one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:17] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I think there\u0026#39;s an expansionist too. This is a tech in general problem. Cause Jason, you brought up a few things and I know Wesley, we haven\u0026#39;t asked you what you think the factors are but just to dial in on something that Jason said, this is a tech wide problem, I think, where it\u0026#39;s like, Hey, you know what we do when we interview people, we have an inexperienced HR person who is not technical go through a system of preexisting documentation that says, this is what we want.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:44] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And it\u0026#39;s kicked out. Maybe they chat to you, PT it, put it up on LinkedIn and they said it\u0026#39;s nice to have, but the HR person thinks that\u0026#39;s a must haves. So you\u0026#39;ve already lost yourself with one level of filter. Then we have 17 interviews. And then one of them\u0026#39;s a technical interview where we make you write code.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:58] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. This is still a [00:08:00] problem for tech in general, DevRel specifically, but tech in general has not figured out how to hire people. No one has disrupted the hiring space looking at your startups. None of you have done it. You tried with a glass door and greenhouse and all of those, all those are just apps to do the same thing that monster did in 1996.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:19] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Like you\u0026#39;re not doing anything new. Nothing\u0026#39;s been disrupted. You just change the name of your website. None of the three of us on this call, or probably anyone who\u0026#39;s listening has the power to do this on a large scale, but I think it\u0026#39;s worthwhile talking about it because the more people talk about it, more attention is brought to it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:36] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Sorry, that was my little rant. Wesley, what do you think is contributing to this issue? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:42] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the things that I think is part of it is I know you mentioned about the ATS the applicant tracking systems that don\u0026#39;t have the right keywords or something going through that, but also as a person who\u0026#39;s just trying to use whatever these employments are.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:57] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Websites are, I\u0026#39;m not going to name any by specifics, [00:09:00] but DevRel is not really a drop down. You can do marketing, you can do sales, you can do all these different things. DevRel as a profession is not listed as even a way to be discovered or to label yourself. And so that means that you are more prone to being abused or skipped over by keywords because that is the primary way of how they find people rather than people who are doing the profession already.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:22] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So I think that\u0026#39;s one of the ways it\u0026#39;s just not being able to identify yourself as a candidate for a specific industry or role. The other is. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:31] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I just agree with you. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:32] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. The other is getting past these JDs looking at them because of this lack of understanding about DevRel, they really are looking for the unicorn candidate by putting a whole bunch of things there.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:44] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e But what is also missing is the thing that they\u0026#39;re trying to fix or solve or why they need a person who is in that position. So they\u0026#39;re really focused on getting the right person and so as a candidate, it\u0026#39;s harder to self-identify your [00:10:00] alignment with the job and a role in a way that\u0026#39;s actually more accurate than they say, we need someone with this many deals of experience or this doing this industry, and so on and so forth with her just characteristics of a person rather than someone who can tackle an issue. Because let\u0026#39;s say I\u0026#39;ve done DevRel for a lot of database companies. Does that mean that I couldn\u0026#39;t do DevRel for an analytics company? I think that they\u0026#39;re exactly, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:26] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So they\u0026#39;re listing the things that they\u0026#39;re needing rather than listing the problems, which means that, yeah, I guess I don\u0026#39;t check all the boxes, but I don\u0026#39;t understand why that it\u0026#39;s a box that needs to be checked related to what you need after getting through the phone screen or interview process is just understanding, like it\u0026#39;s, and that gets to my last point, which is a big majority of DevRel is being hired by people who don\u0026#39;t know DevRel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:50] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And I know we\u0026#39;ve touched on this, but it\u0026#39;s also a little bit more than that. So even when I\u0026#39;ve had interviews with directors of DevRel [00:11:00] or VPs of DevRel or heads of DevRel or people who have done DevRel or are currently doing DevRel. It can be one myopic in terms of they\u0026#39;ve only done DevRel at that company.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:11] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And so that they\u0026#39;re in that kind of comfort zone of how DevRel is done there, and they\u0026#39;re looking to replicate that. Or number two, they may have more experience doing DevRel. The rounds and rounds of interview that you were mentioning, PJ. Sometimes it\u0026#39;s like you talk to someone in marketing, you talk to customer service, you talk to all these other departments that need to get a buy in for this role, where if it was in the other role, you wouldn\u0026#39;t have to run the gauntlet of all these other departments in some ways, good, but it amplifies the error or the problem where people are giving opinions based on their own experiences, being someone in sales or being someone in marketing or being in someone in product, not saying that they shouldn\u0026#39;t have a hand.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:51] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And the interview process, but they think what they know, being a practitioner is way different than banning an armchair [00:12:00] quarterback and saying I think you should have passed, not run on that play, or he should\u0026#39;ve gone for it on fourth down.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:05] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s easy to make that call when you don\u0026#39;t have the skin in the game and you don\u0026#39;t know all of the context. And I think that\u0026#39;s the art part of the problem with the interview loops. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:13] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s a funny cause. On both sides is as an interviewer and an interviewee. I\u0026#39;ve had situations where I\u0026#39;ve been interviewing someone, I\u0026#39;m like, I have no idea why I\u0026#39;m interviewing you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:22] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e It has nothing to do with what I do. You will not work with my department. I think they just randomly wanted to throw an extra person on for culture fit, which is such a bullshit term. And then on the other side, I\u0026#39;ve had people that I\u0026#39;m interviewing for the job and they\u0026#39;ve told me straight up, they\u0026#39;re like, I don\u0026#39;t know why I\u0026#39;m the person interviewing you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:37] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m not sure why I\u0026#39;m here, except for there\u0026#39;s some sort of org chart somewhere that draws a line between me and what you might be doing. And it\u0026#39;s not unusual. But I think that also going back to one of your earlier points, when you mentioned that a lot of times these job descriptions are saying we want X, Y, and Z.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:55] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And we\u0026#39;re going to build it this way, but they\u0026#39;re not telling you the problem. The [00:13:00] one of the things that I found tripped me up a lot of interviews, I\u0026#39;d say, okay, so what problem are you trying to solve with DevRel? What\u0026#39;s not being met right now with what you currently have? Why are you hiring for DevRel?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:11] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And people really don\u0026#39;t like it when you ask them why they\u0026#39;re doing the thing that would give you the job. I\u0026#39;m relatively sure I probably missed out on some opportunities, not just because of my smart mouth, but because I really need that question answered. What do you think? Dev rel is what do you think a dev advocate does?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:28] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you think I\u0026#39;m going to do in this role at this company? This isn\u0026#39;t a, where do I see myself in a five year situation? What is my day to day? What do you think it\u0026#39;s supposed to be? Don\u0026#39;t ask me. I already know what the job is. I\u0026#39;ve been doing this for 15 years. You got to tell me if you actually are trying to hire the right person.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:47] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think it\u0026#39;s a mixture. I don\u0026#39;t know if it\u0026#39;s an intentional bait and switch either. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:50] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e  people are just literally, they don\u0026#39;t know what they\u0026#39;re looking for.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:54] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think it\u0026#39;s probably a majority of that. I do think that there may be some times out there where [00:14:00] people are just like, Yeah, I\u0026#39;ve seen some other companies have success in dev rel, and we want some of that \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:04] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e and I think with startups, sometimes it\u0026#39;s a, the board or the investors come in and say, Hey, we\u0026#39;ve got things that you should do yet, things that you should do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:12] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And one of the things is to hire a developer advocate. And I\u0026#39;ve seen that at companies that don\u0026#39;t have a consumer and or developer facing product, and it\u0026#39;s like, why? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:22] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I remember I, maybe I was, I thought I was telling you about this PJ, but maybe it was somebody else. I\u0026#39;m on TikTok occasionally.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:29] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I came across this one story that I was like, Oh, actually that\u0026#39;s a very similar kind of metaphor for what\u0026#39;s going on in DevRel and probably some other places too. But there was this story of this woman who found a job listing online, applied for it, and did an online interview. Everything was great.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:47] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e It was like a sales role, I think. And then eventually you had to go to the site for training. And then it wasn\u0026#39;t until, and that was probably like the fourth interview or something that happened. And it wasn\u0026#39;t until [00:15:00] she got there that she learned that the first thing you do is you go and work like a kiosk at the mall.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:06] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And then from there, you graduate and go to another place. And then you finally would get to the actual job that she thought she was applying for in the first place. Hopefully doesn\u0026#39;t apply to a lot of dev rel, but I know that, in general, people aren\u0026#39;t always forthcoming in high turnover positions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:25] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think maybe there\u0026#39;s this conception that what I fear, the biggest thing for a lot of people in our community is that they don\u0026#39;t realize that their own personality, like their own online presence, like they\u0026#39;re themselves, what makes them unique is. Is the value. And so if you damage that by saying, in any way, really, then you\u0026#39;ve diminished your own value.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:49] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And a big part of that is being challenged, I think, with a lot of the just mismatched understandings of what DevRel does, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:59] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e right. And [00:16:00] I think that we still have an issue with some people who really want to get into DevRel because they perceive it as this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:06] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Lifestyle party. I\u0026#39;m going to travel the world. And it really, it wasn\u0026#39;t that before COVID. And it really isn\u0026#39;t like that now. I think the people that I saw that even a good bulk of their work was conferences and speaking and doing speaking engagements. A lot of those people are not doing that so much anymore, and they\u0026#39;re doing other kinds of content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:26] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e They\u0026#39;re doing videos, they\u0026#39;re doing podcasts, they\u0026#39;re doing, whatever, webinars. But like not the number of people that are still, hardcore road dogs, being being out and doing 25 and 30 conferences a year, that number has diminished to a near to zero number.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:43] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e There\u0026#39;s just not that many people doing it anymore. So if you\u0026#39;re coming into DevRel and you\u0026#39;re thinking, I\u0026#39;m going to have this great life where I travel all the time and it\u0026#39;s going to be easy and you have very little experience and very little technical know-how. I\u0026#39;m going to ask you to do us all a favor for those [00:17:00] of us who are looking for jobs and don\u0026#39;t apply.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:03] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Don\u0026#39;t apply. This isn\u0026#39;t a job for you. We\u0026#39;re not influencers. We\u0026#39;re not. Instagram, TikTok stars. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:09] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Only watermelon, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:10] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e watermelon. Like three people get that and the rest of us will move on. But if you\u0026#39;re looking for a job where you can travel and.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:17] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Don\u0026#39;t worry about the technical repercussions of the things that you do. Join an airline or something. Don\u0026#39;t get into DevRel. The flood of people that are not qualified to do this job, I think, are another major factor of why we\u0026#39;re not able to get hired when we have lots of experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:32] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Because it costs a lot of money. And it\u0026#39;s not like an exorbitant amount of money. I don\u0026#39;t get paid as much as middle management execs that do basically nothing all day. But, it does cost a lot to hire me because I have years of experience. Those who are hiring should not cut corners and say I\u0026#39;ll hire someone who has very little technical experience and very little DevRel experience just so that I can pay them less than 100, 000 a year.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:56] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e This is, I think, another reason why we\u0026#39;re not getting, we do [00:18:00] command a higher set salary and in the same way that I think with engineers that\u0026#39;s going away. I think we have to start working on what it is. We\u0026#39;re what value we\u0026#39;re bringing to the situation that makes us earn that high level of pay.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:16] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I have something to come. I\u0026#39;d like to come back to that too, because I feel like we don\u0026#39;t really focus on hiring junior people, junior level people as much, and we don\u0026#39;t really have a method of bringing people up from let\u0026#39;s say new recruits out of college internships, stuff like that, maybe you see it here and there, but generally speaking, it\u0026#39;s not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:34] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So I\u0026#39;d love to come back to that because I do think that there\u0026#39;s space for people who are more junior, but like you pointed out, there\u0026#39;s lots of us who have been doing this for a long time. And we take on a lot of the responsibilities and just, there\u0026#39;s a lot more things that we can accomplish, than a junior person.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:50] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e But I want to go back to, Wesley was talking about during your process of looking for new jobs and it\u0026#39;s frustrating because a [00:19:00] lot of the systems that are out there using keywords and there\u0026#39;s probably AI involved to do a lot of filtering and sorting and stuff like that. I\u0026#39;m just curious about your thoughts around if.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:10] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e There is some automation being put in place, or if there\u0026#39;s just something that\u0026#39;s making it so that the keywords are so important, what prevents people from just putting in all the keywords to help them, basically game the system and try to increase their odds. Or you think that\u0026#39;s what people are already doing and that still doesn\u0026#39;t.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:29] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Still doesn\u0026#39;t like help. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:32] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I think because it\u0026#39;s the eye of the beholder there, when you\u0026#39;re talking about DevRel, it could be any tool based developer plus whatever company. And so that\u0026#39;s what an infinite amount of keywords that it could be. For instance, social media needs to be a keyword there. For someone who\u0026#39;s looking for someone to post on social media, but also let\u0026#39;s say I wanted to work on technical documentation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:55] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Does that need to be there too? Since DevRel is also very [00:20:00] vast and very distributed in that way. You could overload it with keywords, but as a job seeker getting quality roles or getting filtered on the other end of what roles you\u0026#39;re qualified for. It also poisons that as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:17] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So when you put all the stuff into these systems, did you start getting it? Oh, DevRel like real estate. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:26] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Or like a social worker? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:27] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. If you have social media Ooh, maybe you want to do social work. I\u0026#39;ve had that experience as well as where you put too much stuff in there and you, and it just makes it it\u0026#39;s so much that it\u0026#39;s, you have to do all the filtering on that, that in as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:39] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s a cat and mouse game in which. Either way, the candidate loses,\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:47] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I don\u0026#39;t know if that answers your question. Yeah. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:48] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And there, yeah, no, it does. And there are a finite number of roles open at any given point too. I think it\u0026#39;s, that\u0026#39;s interesting the way you put it, because it [00:21:00] makes me feel like, we wear so many hats and have so many different skills that we even get pulled into other, Industries and just other areas of working opportunities that we probably wouldn\u0026#39;t take in general, but there\u0026#39;s some crossover there that, whether it\u0026#39;s a good crossover or not I don\u0026#39;t think any of us are looking to be property managers at the local community building, in our neighborhood or something.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:23] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e if the payer, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:24] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e my, in my experience, the recruiters, the ones who are looking are also running into that same thing. Like they\u0026#39;re looking for Wesley. But for some reason they can\u0026#39;t find Wesley, so that in order to find a Wesley there, they know all the things about Wesley, but all that does is bring them a list of not Wesley\u0026#39;s and nobody\u0026#39;s happy.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:44] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:44] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e All that\u0026#39;s because Wesley, I\u0026#39;m Wesley. I forgot that keyword. What\u0026#39;s your name on it, man? Yeah. You should probably put your name, Wesley. I figured out the problem. You haven\u0026#39;t been hired because you have to put your name and [00:22:00] email on the resume, or they can\u0026#39;t contact you. I think that, that checklisty kind of AI thing is a part of it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:06] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I discovered working with some insider folks that the reason why people don\u0026#39;t get hired often has nothing to do because we should take it into consideration. Let me boil this down to what I\u0026#39;m actually trying to say. We should take into consideration the other side.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:20] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e There is a burden as well. And that burden is that they are seeing thousands and thousands of resumes or submissions or LinkedIn applications or whatever. They are missing tons and tons of these things and they have to sift through them fairly quickly. So they have to build up a tool base. It says I can easily get through this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:41] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I almost think there should be some sort of service that says, I specifically help you hire for DevRel and we answer those questions up front so we can get through all of the bullshit and get you to the point of meeting with the candidate faster.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:54] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think it has to be clear too, because there\u0026#39;s two, one, there\u0026#39;s two avenues here to help you with [00:23:00] connecting with the right people. That one problem is just finding Wesley. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:04] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e But then \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:04] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e the second problem is once you\u0026#39;ve got him, don\u0026#39;t fuck it up. Don\u0026#39;t fumble here, and that\u0026#39;s the part. I don\u0026#39;t think that there\u0026#39;s a lot of guidance on either, like because it\u0026#39;s probably different in a lot of different places, but everybody has a different idea around what DevRel should be and things like that. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:19] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. And as you go along, there\u0026#39;s people that are, if there\u0026#39;s people confused about why they\u0026#39;re part of the process, they don\u0026#39;t know why they\u0026#39;re meeting Wesley.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:26] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e They\u0026#39;re like, he seems like a nice guy. We had a great conversation. I don\u0026#39;t know what the hell DevRel is. What are you asking me right now? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:33] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely. I also just like to dovetail on this like fumbling the bag, as they say I was going to point out the three ways while I\u0026#39;m not a good candidate.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:41] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And through this interview process, and probably a lot of people can identify with this going back to what is DevRel I think that there is a misconception of, or the poisoning of the well, using that term again, of the DevRel influencer and people wanting someone to go viral, to Make [00:24:00] tons of video content, have a huge social media following.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:02] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I still see that listed on the job description is what they want as a person. And I think that the DevRel influencer is something that feels short lived, like it was a thing. And then those people are still like, not as prominent as they were. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:22] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, it lasted less time in the confederacy. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:24] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And that\u0026#39;s still what people are looking for and thinking what dev rel is. And so I\u0026#39;ve seen that and I\u0026#39;m not one of those people. So I think that\u0026#39;s part of the issue where I wash out. The other thing is the questions on how would you fix X or how would you approach this? Or what is, how do you dev rel?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:42] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Looking for definitive Answers for these very vague questions is something that I struggle with because you might be an early startup where you don\u0026#39;t have a name for yourself. So awareness is something that\u0026#39;s important. Or you\u0026#39;re in an industry where it\u0026#39;s brand new and people don\u0026#39;t really [00:25:00] know that it exists and, or the terminology.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:02] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And so you have to do a lot of education where you have to tell people that. This is even a problem and educating them on this and why a solution of this will make their lives easier. Or it could be like a brand that\u0026#39;s been around for years and everyone knows about, but maybe they have 5, 000 products and there\u0026#39;s a new one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:20] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And so you have to make sure that you can stand out between your 4, 099th product. And I have to say this 5, 000 products is actually something that\u0026#39;s should, you should pay attention to, or it\u0026#39;s iterative and it\u0026#39;s a 2. 0 or a 3. 0 and why should you care if it\u0026#39;s filled, is it incremental?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:39] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Or is it, there, there\u0026#39;s a lot of problems within dev rel and there\u0026#39;s a lot of companies and company positioning where not one approach works for everyone. It\u0026#39;s extremely bespoke to understand not only what the problem set is, the company set is, but what resources do you have? Are you, do you have an agency that you\u0026#39;re working with?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:57] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Is this internally? Do you have resources? Do you [00:26:00] have a budget? Do you have a travel budget? There are so many things that limit not only what you can do, but how you should do it and when you can do it. Do you have a big conference coming up? Do you have a big deployment coming up? Do you have a big announcement coming up?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:13] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e There are some things that you cannot move, but things need to be done before that or around that. All of that stuff comes into how you approach DevRel and how you solve some of these problems. That really is, are you putting in best practices so the low hanging fruit can just, you can see immediate results?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:29] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Or are you reinventing how they\u0026#39;ve done things and cleaning up like the sloppy DevRel they did before you got hired? There are several different ways. And having to answer those questions can be a real struggle. And what you were saying, PJ, you\u0026#39;re like, why are you hiring this? That can be something that kind of hurts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:49] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And the last one, I\u0026#39;m going to bring this up. And this could be more of a me thing than anything, but job hopping. My tenure for previous roles have been very short. And people don\u0026#39;t, I [00:27:00] don\u0026#39;t think people understand the volatility that\u0026#39;s around DevRel. And that\u0026#39;s something that I think I struggle with as well as other people.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:07] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Said that and I said, yes. Everybody who\u0026#39;s been in DevRel for a while. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:11] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, absolutely. It\u0026#39;s because of some of this hiring process. They don\u0026#39;t know what they want. They don\u0026#39;t know how to do it. They don\u0026#39;t resource it appropriately.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:19] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e They are disinvesting. They don\u0026#39;t even understand the value of DevRel, they don\u0026#39;t see the value in DevRel. So a lot of those things are going into how people do DevRel and burnout is extremely prevalent with anyone who\u0026#39;s doing developer relations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:34] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that understanding of the industry from that perspective is something that\u0026#39;s also lost on people who are hiring. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:41] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I feel like the common theme that we I\u0026#39;m hearing here, and I think all of us agree is if you are looking for a place. Make sure it is crystal clear what it is that job is expecting you to do and that it aligns with who you are just as a person and somebody who has to own that [00:28:00] this is me, like I have to be Jason Hand for the future out there.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:03] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e But yeah, I think just making sure everybody\u0026#39;s on the same page before you go into a job, because. Job hopping, I think, makes it sound like you are leaving on your own every two years.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:14] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e There\u0026#39;s lots and lots of reasons why people leave their jobs frequently, and I think even for a long time, people were giving advice that if you\u0026#39;re at a company longer than a couple of years, it\u0026#39;s probably a good idea to start looking somewhere else. Cause you, you\u0026#39;re not going to have an opportunity to level up or get a promotion or anything like that, unless you take another job somewhere.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:34] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Competing \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:34] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e incentives. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:36] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Even beyond that, it seems when I was going through the job search process recently, people always go through your resume, explain why, so you were at this place. Why\u0026#39;d you leave? I was laid off. You\u0026#39;re at this place.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:45] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Why\u0026#39;d you leave? I was laid off. So how am I to blame for job hopping? If I get laid off every one or two years, that\u0026#39;s a little ridiculous. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:55] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think that there\u0026#39;s probably filters somewhere that look for people who have shown [00:29:00] a history of not being all in. They come in here and they do short term, they take their paycheck and they go somewhere else.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:05] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think that\u0026#39;s what people are afraid of. But also there\u0026#39;s lots of people who get filtered out because it looks like they did that. And that\u0026#39;s not, that has nothing to do with why they\u0026#39;ve only kept jobs for a couple of years. So it comes down to, I think probably really informed, really skilled recruiters, maybe we need to try to educate recruiters a little bit more on what DevRel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:34] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e We all agree that recruiting, hiring, and DevRel is broken. I think we also just agree like in tech in general, it\u0026#39;s broken. There\u0026#39;s some unique things around DevRel that seemed to be heavily showing some connection to just mismatch and understanding what the role is.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:53] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it\u0026#39;s cyclical. I think that is. Business either get a better understanding or maybe as more documentation comes up from this, [00:30:00] Linux Foundation group as people are more educated on what\u0026#39;s going on in DevRel and who\u0026#39;s qualified and things like that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:07] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e It should improve. I hope it improves. That\u0026#39;s all I can do because otherwise things can\u0026#39;t carry on the way they\u0026#39;ve been going. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:13] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:14] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e so I\u0026#39;m glad Wesley. I\u0026#39;m glad you brought this topic up. I think it\u0026#39;s on, it\u0026#39;s at the front of a lot of people\u0026#39;s minds. Those who are looking, those who aren\u0026#39;t looking, but maybe soon it seems like the level of certainty in this job area is definitely gone south.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:28] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e If it ever was there. So I\u0026#39;m glad we had a chance to talk about it and get to, and I always love when we get a chance to hang out and chat about these things. They become great episodes. I feel like this is a great episode. And I\u0026#39;d like to. Thank everybody for listening. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:42] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Please share with us your research on what you\u0026#39;re finding in your hiring situation. So this email has a bunch of areas about blue sky email if you want to info community policy dot. I. O. we\u0026#39;re happy to hear from you and we\u0026#39;d be happy to read your messages to other folks. Thank you very much for the privilege of [00:31:00] your time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:31:00] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And we\u0026#39;ll see you next time on the Community Pulse.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork by Photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@chuttersnap?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\"\u003eCHUTTERSNAP\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/photos/top-view-photography-of-broken-ceramic-plate-cGXdjyP6-NU?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"It comes as no surprise that something in the hiring of Developer Relations practitioners has become a mystery box of confusion. No standard path to follow, interviews ranging all over the map, homework assignments that go nowhere, and most conversations leading to few actual opportunities.\r\n\r\nWesley, Jason, and PJ share their thoughts on what’s happening and whether or not there is hope for the future.","date_published":"2024-12-12T09:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/78e4855e-17b7-4474-9ab1-48460d6bc0f7.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":97003204,"duration_in_seconds":2344}]},{"id":"bb03bfc7-8f59-4d79-94fe-19f2c3982571","title":"What is Maturity? (Ep 91)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/91-what-is-maturity","content_text":"Recently, the topic of DevRel maturity sparked a conversation: What qualities define a mature community and a seasoned team? Join PJ, Jason, Mary, and Wesley as they share their insights on past experiences, current trends shaping the field, and key indicators to monitor as you strive to build a thriving, successful community.\n\nTopics Discussed:\nIntroduction to the Concept of Maturity in DevRel and Community Programs:\n\nMary Thengvall introduces the topic of maturity in community programs, DevRel teams, and broader community growth, asking the co-hosts for their views on what it means for a program or team to be “mature.”\nThe discussion explores maturity from different perspectives: internal community management, external community engagement, and the use of data in measuring maturity.\n\nThe Definition of Maturity:\nPJ Haggerty argues that the term “mature” is often used ambiguously, similar to how the word \"enterprise\" is applied. He suggests that DevRel programs may be mistakenly seen as mature just by having a larger team, but he disagrees with this simplistic view.\n\nWesley Faulkner offers multiple angles for assessing maturity:\nInternal maturity: Does the company have seasoned community managers, strong goals, clear expectations, and good internal collaboration across departments?\nExternal maturity: Does the community have a consistent base of returning members, active engagement, and is it large enough to support initiatives like ambassador programs or moderator roles?\nScalability: A mature community allows for growth, enabling more opportunities for collaboration, feedback, and scaling programs effectively.\n\nMaturity in the Context of Company History:\nMary Thengvall reflects on the significant data her company, Kamunda, has accumulated since 2013. She points out that while having 11 years of data seems like a huge advantage, it only becomes truly valuable if it is actionable. She emphasizes that being able to use data to make decisions is a key sign of a mature program.\nJason Hand stresses that merely collecting data without acting on it is a waste, and processes need to be built around data to drive positive outcomes. He highlights that having a clear vision and goals is integral to creating a mature team and community.\n\nChallenges in Community Maturity:\nPJ Haggerty contrasts the maturity of external communities. He shares his experience with the Ruby and Rails community, which was once immature but matured as the open-source community grew. The challenge is that a community’s maturity cannot exist in isolation — it depends on the external community's growth alongside the internal team’s development.\nThe maturity of community data also plays a critical role. Mary Thengvall questions whether it is possible to continue calling a community mature if much of its active base has shifted or churned due to evolving products or other factors.\n\nEvaluating and Using Data:\nThe episode explores the effectiveness of metrics used to evaluate community programs. PJ Haggerty criticizes Net Promoter Score (NPS) as outdated and unreliable, especially in the current context where personal interactions (such as with a developer advocate) might skew the score.\nWesley Faulkner discusses how metrics can be “Uberfied,” meaning that overly simplistic metrics like star ratings may not accurately reflect the quality of engagement within a community.\nMary Thengvall discusses the importance of understanding the purpose behind collecting metrics. Are metrics gathered for the sake of collection, or do they inform decisions about program improvements?\n\nThe Evolution of Community Programs:\nJason Hand emphasizes that community maturity is a moving target. Teams and priorities evolve, and practices that were considered best practices a few years ago may no longer hold true. Maturity is not a one-time achievement but a continuous process of adaptation.\nMary Thengvall adds that there’s a difference between having a mature program that runs smoothly with minimal manual effort and the early-stage iterative phase that is often more experimental and adaptable.\n\nImpact of External Growth and Organizational Expectations:\nJason Hand asks whether the maturity of a community is driven by organizational expectations or if a mature community is the result of consistent iteration and learning over time.\nMary Thengvall shares that her own career trajectory is impacted by the maturity of her team and program. She reflects on the challenge of finding new ways to innovate when things feel “settled” and running smoothly, highlighting the balance between growth and stability.\n\nKey Takeaways:\n\n\nMaturity in DevRel and community programs is a multi-faceted concept involving internal team development, external community engagement, and the use of data to inform decisions.\nA mature community program requires both internal synergy within the company and active, engaged community members outside the organization.\nData is crucial for maturity, but it must be actionable. Collecting metrics without using them for decision-making does not lead to growth.\nMaturity is an ongoing process, and what was once considered mature can quickly become outdated. Continuous iteration and adapting to new challenges is key.\nThe maturity of external communities and their relationship with the internal team play a major role in the overall success and scalability of community programs.\n\n\nAction Items:\n\n\nCommunity Managers: Evaluate the maturity of your program from internal and external perspectives. Are you actively engaging your community? Are internal stakeholders aligned with the value of community?\nDevRel Teams: Focus on making your community scalable by creating processes that support growth and enable external members to contribute meaningfully.\nOrganizations: Use data-driven decision-making but ensure that the data you collect is relevant and leads to actionable outcomes. Revisit your metrics and evaluate whether they are still valid and useful.\nLeaders in DevRel: Consider how community maturity affects the growth of your program. Are you in the iterative stage, or are you moving toward a more stable, self-sustaining model?\n\n\nKey Words and Themes:\nCommunity Maturity\nData and Metrics\nExternal Community Engagement\nInternal Team Collaboration\nMature DevRel Program\nScalability\nIterative vs. Mature Programs\nActionable Data\nContinuous Evolution\nBest Practices\nNet Promoter Score (NPS) Criticism\nUberfication of Metrics\n\nTranscript\n\n[00:00:13] Mary Thengvall: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Community Pulse. I'm Mary Thengvall, and I brought up this topic to the team recently as something that I've been curious about and thinking a little bit more about.\n\n[00:00:26] Mary Thengvall: And I'd love to get everybody's opinion on it. So the idea of the maturity of community programs or the maturity of. A community or the maturity of a team and trying to figure out what actually is that definition of mature in those different examples? What makes a program mature? What makes a team mature?\n\n[00:00:50] Mary Thengvall: What can be done as a result of having a more mature program or DevRel team? And I'd love to get everybody's opinions on it. [00:01:00] \n\n[00:01:00] PJ Haggerty: I think if I could weigh in for a second, I think that one of the interesting things here is the word you mentioned, the word mature. Like 17 times which is good, but I also feel like maturity is in some ways similar to when we, when tech companies use the word enterprise, what does that mean?\n\n[00:01:15] PJ Haggerty: It can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. And a lot of, in a lot of cases, I think that maturity, when we look at like a DevRel team is. skewed. \n\n[00:01:27] PJ Haggerty: I don't think that's the same metric as. I've never seen a DevRel team that says, okay, so we have junior DevRel and mid level DevRel, senior DevRel, product managers, and communication is managed by this other part of the team. I think most people are basically saying a DevRel program is mature, if There's more than one person.\n\n[00:01:49] Mary Thengvall: Really? \n\n[00:01:49] PJ Haggerty: I think external people who view DevRel say there's more than one person. Clearly we have a mature DevRel program. I disagree with that, but I think it's a thing. [00:02:00] \n\n[00:02:00] Wesley Faulkner: In terms of community and a mature community, I think of it in multiple facets and you can pick which one.\n\n[00:02:06] Wesley Faulkner: Resonates with your initial thought, Mary, is that there's a maturity in terms of when you're creating a community, there's a lot of, let's figure this out, like how we're going to run this, let's build up the playbooks. Let's build in the process, let's build in the connections internally. \n\n[00:02:21] Wesley Faulkner: Oh, a base of maturity. Another way of looking at it is from the people who are involved internally in community. Do you have a seasoned community manager? Do you have strong enough goals? And clear expectations. Do you have a good relationship with the other departments to make sure that the collaboration there, that everyone sees the investment in community and the value of community where basically you have an internal synergy where people understand community is part of the process \n\n[00:02:54] Wesley Faulkner: so where the community in a company grows to the point where it's the whole [00:03:00] company understands. That we are a community. And this is important to us. \n\n[00:03:04] Mary Thengvall: And then \n\n[00:03:04] Wesley Faulkner: The third option for the community when I think about it is the external view of the community. Do you have members who keep coming back? Do you have people who are participatory in either surveys or type of feedback sessions in which they are contributing not only back to the company, but they have a That are horizontal to other members of the community where they feel like that relationship has been built up.\n\n[00:03:32] Wesley Faulkner: Another way that this can show on the external side is that it is large enough that you're able to do an ambassador program? You're able to have people be moderators. You're tearing the community itself where there's different types of facets or different types of verticals where the community can have different shapes and sizes depending on the size of it.\n\n[00:03:51] Wesley Faulkner: So those are the three different ways that when you say maturity that popped in my head. \n\n[00:03:56] Mary Thengvall: Part of the interesting thing [00:04:00] from my perspective with the company that I'm at, which is Kamunda is. From a just pure length of time perspective, right? Like we have data about our community back to 2013, which is a lot.\n\n[00:04:19] Mary Thengvall: And so that's part of it is, as we're starting to look at this data and try and evaluate, what do we do next and how do we make decisions based on that? If we're asking other companies about the type of data that they have and the type of information that they have, the fact that we have 11 years of data, most other companies are going you have way more data than we do.\n\n[00:04:39] Mary Thengvall: You have way more information than we do. Like you're so far ahead of the game, but part of that is simply when we started. Mature community. \n\n[00:04:50] Jason Hand: Are you doing anything with that data? \n\n[00:04:53] Mary Thengvall: Trying to\n\n[00:04:54] Jason Hand: That's an excellent question, Jason.\n\n[00:04:55] Jason Hand: To me that's what makes them a team mature is if you're not doing anything that's [00:05:00] actionable and you don't have a plan to take the things that you learned or the things that you've collected or whatever, \n\n[00:05:06] Mary Thengvall: and \n\n[00:05:07] Jason Hand: Build some process around that and do something positive with it.\n\n[00:05:11] Jason Hand: Then you're wasting that. And you're also not really a leader in the space of what, I hate using the term best practices, but if you're not I feel this all the time are, am I following my advice all the time? No, but I'm doing my best and it's not always up to one person either on how things come together.\n\n[00:05:28] Jason Hand: To me, the first thing to jump out is in terms of a mature team, like communities, probably something different, mature, like other words out there. But I'm starting to realize like a data dog, like building some process around stuff, having some good goals, making sure we have a clear vision and mission statement, like all these things help to me create this this maturity thing, \n\n[00:05:53] Wesley Faulkner: I think that was option one, right? \n\n[00:05:55] PJ Haggerty: Yeah. I think it's interesting that Mary brings up 13 years of data. [00:06:00] Or I shouldn't say weak. I don't work at Komuna. I work at IBM, where we literally have 100 years of data and we do nothing with it. And I think that it'd be more accurate to say you have a 100 or you have 13 years of actionable information based on the data you've collected.\n\n[00:06:16] PJ Haggerty: There's always been my argument and anyone who's seen me speak at DevOpsDays. There's a big difference between data and information. You can have a lot of data and no information. And that's, because, at international business machines, we concern ourselves with the enterprise and the client, but the client isn't always the community.\n\n[00:06:35] PJ Haggerty: And the mature community model would. But even given the amount of time that we've had to collect data and look at it and evaluate it, there are still because and maybe this is part of the just large nature of a huge international conglomerate. \n\n[00:06:51] PJ Haggerty: Community interaction that the company is very good at. And there are other parts of the company that have no idea who the community is or how to talk to them. And [00:07:00] because it's so large, those two places just don't talk to each other. That's option two. Yes. But it's like the bad version of option two.\n\n[00:07:08] Jason Hand: Not everything also, as far as data goes, is going to be actionable. Like you can't assume that all that data going back to 2013 is it is really even valuable because time is, this there's pre COVID and post COVID there obviously, but also I just read about the dead internet theory the other day or watched a video on it and the internet in 2016, which I don't disagree with there's a time where things were different in terms of what we were collecting and what we thought was valuable.\n\n[00:07:37] Mary Thengvall: Yeah. \n\n[00:07:37] Jason Hand: Today, most of us would say, page views and clicks and all that stuff. The best we had at the time. And that's what we looked at the most, but that having that data from some, from several years back might not be that value. \n\n[00:07:47] PJ Haggerty: This goes back to a lot of the metrics conversations we have as well, though.\n\n[00:07:50] PJ Haggerty: Like I think that 10, 15 years ago at any tech company, I would think that net promoter score was a totally valid way to look at your end users and figure out whether you were doing well. [00:08:00] Nowadays, it's a huge waste. It's a huge waste. That is not a way to get a grip on your community or your end users or people that are using the, that promoter score is just, in the same way that, if this was 1998, I would say, yes, if you were in the upper right magic quadrant of a Gardner square, way to go, you're the best.\n\n[00:08:17] PJ Haggerty: It's not 1998, it's 2024. And with 2025 rapidly approaching, you need to like everyone who complains about the metrics of determining whether a DevRel program is good or a community is mature. And meanwhile, these other people are using you know 40 year outdated metrics to say. But we're doing good in the industry.\n\n[00:08:36] Wesley Faulkner: Used to believe in the net performance score too, in terms of community. But I think that someone told me this and coined it the uberfication of metrics for star rating. I like that. Like everyone gets five stars, no matter how bad your driver is. And this or they get one star, there's nothing in between.\n\n[00:08:54] PJ Haggerty: If they have a personal interaction with the company it's the same as like I give every uber driver five stars [00:09:00] because I interact with that person. If you're an end user and you have a personal relationship with a salesperson or a developer advocate or a market, someone, you have said, you're going to be like I thought I'd give them the best net promoter score I possibly can.\n\n[00:09:12] Mary Thengvall: Yeah. \n\n[00:09:12] PJ Haggerty: Because I don't want to hurt so much, but that's exactly what invalidates the metric. It's just not valuable anymore. \n\n[00:09:18] Mary Thengvall: I think it goes back to, and this is it's metrics related, but I think it's directly related to maturity as well. The idea of. Are you collecting metrics for metrics sake?\n\n[00:09:30] Mary Thengvall: Are you actually collecting metrics to, Jason, your point? Are you doing anything with them? What are we doing with that data? Why are we collecting this in the first place? How are we using it to advance the programs or things like that? And part of it from my standpoint too, we have a new version of the product.\n\n[00:09:49] Mary Thengvall: That's very specifically called a new version because it does the same things, but it's a different product. And so as we're looking [00:10:00] at. Are people sticking around or people churning because they want to be on the old version of the product, but we're at the end of life in that, like, how does that work?\n\n[00:10:06] Mary Thengvall: What does that look like? Can we still call our community mature? If most of those people who have been around for that long are potentially no longer involved in the community, right? Does that change the level of maturity of the community, \n\n[00:10:21] Mary Thengvall: maturity of the community programs. And that's where I think those two things might be separate. Because the level of maturity of the team could be 10 years on the team. I'm lucky enough to have a number of people who have been with the company and on my team for three years or longer at this point, that's practically unheard of in DevRel, let alone tech, but that's a very different thing than how mature is our community, which is a very different thing than how mature is the data that we're working with and what are we doing with that data and how does it impact our [00:11:00] programs and everything else?\n\n[00:11:02] Wesley Faulkner: Option three.\n\n[00:11:06] PJ Haggerty: Wesley is just going to underscore that he was right. And Wesley, I admit 100%. All right. Yes. And one question, one more question they have about what it takes to make a mature community program is what about the external community. So in here, I'll use the example of, back in the day when I was working at Engine Yard, the Ruby and Rails community was still In comparison to other source and language, other open source and language communities.\n\n[00:11:33] PJ Haggerty: It was still immature. People were not building massive products in that language just yet when I first joined that team. So the external community was actually fairly immature. Which meant that we could only mature as a community team so far. And back then there were no metrics, there were no guardrails, there was no rules.\n\n[00:11:55] PJ Haggerty: We were just making it up as we went along. But because of that, like we [00:12:00] felt like at the end of that experiment, like around 2014, 2015, we had matured quite a bit. We had built something that was rerun, but we had. a playbook that you could follow. This was something that made the parts interchangeable, which unfortunately led to them changing our parts.\n\n[00:12:16] PJ Haggerty: Nonetheless, it was something that you could do, there was a pattern. And I think that's something that only came because of the maturity of the external community growing along with our internal community. And I think that's an important factor when we talk about, is a community program mature?\n\n[00:12:33] PJ Haggerty: Is the external community of users or developers or whatever, are they also mature? Is it a matter where the only people who are really making up the community right now are those like, super cutting bleeding edge technologists who are going to adopt it, or is it a matter of.\n\n[00:12:50] PJ Haggerty: Jason, you asked, why is it good to be mature? That's not a question I've ever had to answer.\n\n[00:13:48] Wesley Faulkner: This is very timely. So yesterday I spoke at CMX Global. And my topic was about the governance of a community. So making sure that you involve the community [00:14:00] and your decisions and your planning, and also giving out some of responsibilities like moderation or something like that.\n\n[00:14:09] Wesley Faulkner: So I was thinking about this and how you couldn't do that without a mature community and what it does give you is scale gives you options. It gives you more that you can work with in several different dimensions.\n\n[00:14:25] Wesley Faulkner: So whether you use it for product feedback, whether you use it for marketing outreach, whether you use it for like user groups, where you're going to meet in different cities, physically, without maturity, you don't get scale. You don't enable some of these things that larger companies, larger.\n\n[00:14:47] Wesley Faulkner: Organizations or even more established organizations are able to do. So it does unlock like a new layer and new skillset. If you are able to get to the [00:15:00] place where you can build that maturity on all those different dimensions. \n\n[00:15:03] Jason Hand: Yeah, I love that. And the reason why I even thought that is because going back to when Mary was opening things up this has been something that's been spinning on your mind for a little bit.\n\n[00:15:16] Jason Hand: And I'm just curious, like what's. Motivating that what's driving that, is there another part of the business that has expectations for something you're involved in to be quite mature. And then just to see the other side of that coin. Sometimes I feel like being new to a situation and maybe not being all that mature means I'm not stuck in some old patterns and I'm open to new ways of doing things.\n\n[00:15:42] Jason Hand: So I'm just curious, what's driving this and is there actually something uniquely about that team program, whatever that the business is after you know what I mean? \n\n[00:15:54] Mary Thengvall: No, that's a great question. \n\n[00:15:55] Jason Hand: Not exploitation of customers.\n\n[00:15:57] Mary Thengvall: No. And it's, I think part of it is [00:16:00] just. I've been thinking, is there a point at which we can go, this program is mature and like that phased iteration of, okay, we're just launching it and let's see how it goes for the next six months and get the baselines. And then great, let's iterate on it.\n\n[00:16:14] Mary Thengvall: Is there a point that you get to where? Some of those programs can just run easily without a lot of overhead, without a lot of work, without a lot of manual intervention, right? Is there a point where you might need a senior community manager to get the program off the ground, but then you could have An intern who does the, manual follow ups and manual approvals and things like that.\n\n[00:16:43] Mary Thengvall: Is that a sign of maturity? But to your point, I think there's some of the benefit of being quote unquote, immature is that ability to iterate quickly. Whereas once you have a fully mature [00:17:00] program that's running really well, if we're going to make any significant changes, that's, it's a lot more difficult, right?\n\n[00:17:08] Mary Thengvall: Because it's not just, Oh, Hey, iterate on this one little thing. Try this out, tell people we're trying this out and then move forward with it. It's, Oh, okay. If we're going to change this, then that process that it feeds into and these things that it feeds into, and this vendor that we use to handle this side of things for the program needs to change and all of these other things, right?\n\n[00:17:26] Mary Thengvall: There's a lot more built into it. There's a lot more at stake. But yeah it's interesting. I think on a personal level. Part of the reason I'm interested in this topic is because this is the first time that I have ever been at a single company and in a single role for this amount of time.\n\n[00:17:47] Mary Thengvall: Like I'll be there five years in December and I've been at other companies for a long time, but always switching roles within the company. But like I started as [00:18:00] director of developer relations, I'm still director of developer relations and I'm okay with that.\n\n[00:18:04] Mary Thengvall: And so some of it is also like my considering my own career trajectory and what's changed and what's different. And the team is very different than it was when I started. The program is different than it was when I started. Where does that leave? Me, what are my day to day responsibilities if we're not changing and iterating on things?\n\n[00:18:26] Mary Thengvall: And I don't think that's a bad thing, but it's just, it's a very different perspective for me to have from always running, always working long days, always launching big programs, always launching new things. That's a personal adjustment. \n\n[00:18:43] PJ Haggerty: But I'm curious, because when we talk about cause I feel like in some ways, like Jason, what you're talking about is like, what should our goal be?\n\n[00:18:48] PJ Haggerty: Maturity share metrics are focused on maturity. And I think that a lot of places never get out of that. Iterative part. And the reason why they don't [00:19:00] is partially because they go through these iterations of the team. So you have, you have, okay. So I bring in PJ and he works, he contracts with us through DevRelate for a year.\n\n[00:19:11] PJ Haggerty: Great. Then, somewhere towards the end of the year, he brings in a permanent, developer advocate. Great. Cool. And then they actually start to reform things and reshift them. Oh, and then our understanding of how DevRel works. Oh, and then there's just a pandemic in the middle of that.\n\n[00:19:23] Mary Thengvall: Company \n\n[00:19:24] PJ Haggerty: and it almost makes it impossible for any company to have a community program. I feel like one of the benefits that you have at Kamunda, Mary, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is their dedication to building a community program from the top down.\n\n[00:19:39] Mary Thengvall: And \n\n[00:19:39] PJ Haggerty: I don't think every company has that. I think a lot of departments have that, or a lot of groups have that, but a lot of companies do not have that. \n\n[00:19:47] Mary Thengvall: Yeah. \n\n[00:19:48] PJ Haggerty: And I think that's why it's difficult to find a similar situation to yours. \n\n[00:19:52] Wesley Faulkner: Another, \n\n[00:19:54] Jason Hand: So I've been, on a few different teams now and Devereux related teams of various maturity, I think really it's [00:20:00] more that it's a moving target of course it's a spectrum in terms of how you measure How mature a team is.\n\n[00:20:07] Jason Hand: But I feel like. Teams change in terms of the people that make up those teams and the priorities of the org that you're in. Some companies might have a whole quarter where they're just, okay. Ours are really focused on one very specific thing that really don't reflect the team as a whole, but this is what the company needed to focus on right now.\n\n[00:20:30] Jason Hand: And we're all coming together to make that work. Everything's just a freaking moving target and to come up with that \n\n[00:20:36] PJ Haggerty: should be the standard DevRel tattoo. \n\n[00:20:37] Jason Hand: I don't want maturity. \n\n[00:20:38] Wesley Faulkner: I will need the pins.\n\n[00:20:39] Jason Hand: Hey, Oh. I don't think maturity is a target and you get there and then you're done. And like magically doors open up and all these things that Wesley's talking about are totally true, but I feel like what may have seemed mature.\n\n[00:20:53] Jason Hand: A couple of years ago, quote, best practices just aren't, they aren't anymore and that's, things are [00:21:00] just different. So we're starting off with a new, Blank slate pretty frequently. And that's where, I don't know, that's where we get, I think, mixed up on what's important.\n\n[00:21:11] Jason Hand: To measure and what's important to take action on with the measurement. \n\n[00:21:16] Mary Thengvall: Thanks for sharing with everybody.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nPhoto by Suzanne D. Williams on Unsplash.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eRecently, the topic of DevRel maturity sparked a conversation: What qualities define a mature community and a seasoned team? Join PJ, Jason, Mary, and Wesley as they share their insights on past experiences, current trends shaping the field, and key indicators to monitor as you strive to build a thriving, successful community.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTopics Discussed:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eIntroduction to the Concept of Maturity in DevRel and Community Programs:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall introduces the topic of maturity in community programs, DevRel teams, and broader community growth, asking the co-hosts for their views on what it means for a program or team to be “mature.”\u003cbr\u003e\nThe discussion explores maturity from different perspectives: internal community management, external community engagement, and the use of data in measuring maturity.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Definition of Maturity:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Haggerty argues that the term “mature” is often used ambiguously, similar to how the word \u0026quot;enterprise\u0026quot; is applied. He suggests that DevRel programs may be mistakenly seen as mature just by having a larger team, but he disagrees with this simplistic view.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner offers multiple angles for assessing maturity:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eInternal maturity:\u003c/strong\u003e Does the company have seasoned community managers, strong goals, clear expectations, and good internal collaboration across departments?\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eExternal maturity\u003c/strong\u003e: Does the community have a consistent base of returning members, active engagement, and is it large enough to support initiatives like ambassador programs or moderator roles?\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eScalability:\u003c/strong\u003e A mature community allows for growth, enabling more opportunities for collaboration, feedback, and scaling programs effectively.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMaturity in the Context of Company History:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMary Thengvall reflects on the significant data her company, Kamunda, has accumulated since 2013. She points out that while having 11 years of data seems like a huge advantage, it only becomes truly valuable if it is actionable. She emphasizes that being able to use data to make decisions is a key sign of a mature program.\u003cbr\u003e\nJason Hand stresses that merely collecting data without acting on it is a waste, and processes need to be built around data to drive positive outcomes. He highlights that having a clear vision and goals is integral to creating a mature team and community.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eChallenges in Community Maturity:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Haggerty contrasts the maturity of external communities. He shares his experience with the Ruby and Rails community, which was once immature but matured as the open-source community grew. The challenge is that a community’s maturity cannot exist in isolation — it depends on the external community\u0026#39;s growth alongside the internal team’s development.\u003cbr\u003e\nThe maturity of community data also plays a critical role. Mary Thengvall questions whether it is possible to continue calling a community mature if much of its active base has shifted or churned due to evolving products or other factors.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEvaluating and Using Data:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe episode explores the effectiveness of metrics used to evaluate community programs. PJ Haggerty criticizes Net Promoter Score (NPS) as outdated and unreliable, especially in the current context where personal interactions (such as with a developer advocate) might skew the score.\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner discusses how metrics can be “Uberfied,” meaning that overly simplistic metrics like star ratings may not accurately reflect the quality of engagement within a community.\u003cbr\u003e\nMary Thengvall discusses the importance of understanding the purpose behind collecting metrics. Are metrics gathered for the sake of collection, or do they inform decisions about program improvements?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Evolution of Community Programs:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJason Hand emphasizes that community maturity is a moving target. Teams and priorities evolve, and practices that were considered best practices a few years ago may no longer hold true. Maturity is not a one-time achievement but a continuous process of adaptation.\u003cbr\u003e\nMary Thengvall adds that there’s a difference between having a mature program that runs smoothly with minimal manual effort and the early-stage iterative phase that is often more experimental and adaptable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eImpact of External Growth and Organizational Expectations:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJason Hand asks whether the maturity of a community is driven by organizational expectations or if a mature community is the result of consistent iteration and learning over time.\u003cbr\u003e\nMary Thengvall shares that her own career trajectory is impacted by the maturity of her team and program. She reflects on the challenge of finding new ways to innovate when things feel “settled” and running smoothly, highlighting the balance between growth and stability.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Takeaways:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMaturity in DevRel and community programs is a multi-faceted concept involving internal team development, external community engagement, and the use of data to inform decisions.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eA mature community program requires both internal synergy within the company and active, engaged community members outside the organization.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eData is crucial for maturity, but it must be actionable. Collecting metrics without using them for decision-making does not lead to growth.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMaturity is an ongoing process, and what was once considered mature can quickly become outdated. Continuous iteration and adapting to new challenges is key.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe maturity of external communities and their relationship with the internal team play a major role in the overall success and scalability of community programs.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAction Items:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCommunity Managers:\u003c/strong\u003e Evaluate the maturity of your program from internal and external perspectives. Are you actively engaging your community? Are internal stakeholders aligned with the value of community?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDevRel Teams:\u003c/strong\u003e Focus on making your community scalable by creating processes that support growth and enable external members to contribute meaningfully.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eOrganizations:\u003c/strong\u003e Use data-driven decision-making but ensure that the data you collect is relevant and leads to actionable outcomes. Revisit your metrics and evaluate whether they are still valid and useful.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLeaders in DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e Consider how community maturity affects the growth of your program. Are you in the iterative stage, or are you moving toward a more stable, self-sustaining model?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Words and Themes:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nCommunity Maturity\u003cbr\u003e\nData and Metrics\u003cbr\u003e\nExternal Community Engagement\u003cbr\u003e\nInternal Team Collaboration\u003cbr\u003e\nMature DevRel Program\u003cbr\u003e\nScalability\u003cbr\u003e\nIterative vs. Mature Programs\u003cbr\u003e\nActionable Data\u003cbr\u003e\nContinuous Evolution\u003cbr\u003e\nBest Practices\u003cbr\u003e\nNet Promoter Score (NPS) Criticism\u003cbr\u003e\nUberfication of Metrics\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003ch2\u003eTranscript\u003c/h2\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:13] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Community Pulse. I\u0026#39;m Mary Thengvall, and I brought up this topic to the team recently as something that I\u0026#39;ve been curious about and thinking a little bit more about.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:26] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And I\u0026#39;d love to get everybody\u0026#39;s opinion on it. So the idea of the maturity of community programs or the maturity of. A community or the maturity of a team and trying to figure out what actually is that definition of mature in those different examples? What makes a program mature? What makes a team mature?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:50] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e What can be done as a result of having a more mature program or DevRel team? And I\u0026#39;d love to get everybody\u0026#39;s opinions on it. [00:01:00] \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:00] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I think if I could weigh in for a second, I think that one of the interesting things here is the word you mentioned, the word mature. Like 17 times which is good, but I also feel like maturity is in some ways similar to when we, when tech companies use the word enterprise, what does that mean?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:15] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e It can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. And a lot of, in a lot of cases, I think that maturity, when we look at like a DevRel team is. skewed. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:27] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I don\u0026#39;t think that\u0026#39;s the same metric as. I\u0026#39;ve never seen a DevRel team that says, okay, so we have junior DevRel and mid level DevRel, senior DevRel, product managers, and communication is managed by this other part of the team. I think most people are basically saying a DevRel program is mature, if There\u0026#39;s more than one person.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:49] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Really? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:49] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I think external people who view DevRel say there\u0026#39;s more than one person. Clearly we have a mature DevRel program. I disagree with that, but I think it\u0026#39;s a thing. [00:02:00] \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:00] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e In terms of community and a mature community, I think of it in multiple facets and you can pick which one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:06] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Resonates with your initial thought, Mary, is that there\u0026#39;s a maturity in terms of when you\u0026#39;re creating a community, there\u0026#39;s a lot of, let\u0026#39;s figure this out, like how we\u0026#39;re going to run this, let\u0026#39;s build up the playbooks. Let\u0026#39;s build in the process, let\u0026#39;s build in the connections internally. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:21] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, a base of maturity. Another way of looking at it is from the people who are involved internally in community. Do you have a seasoned community manager? Do you have strong enough goals? And clear expectations. Do you have a good relationship with the other departments to make sure that the collaboration there, that everyone sees the investment in community and the value of community where basically you have an internal synergy where people understand community is part of the process \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:54] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e so where the community in a company grows to the point where it\u0026#39;s the whole [00:03:00] company understands. That we are a community. And this is important to us. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:04] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And then \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:04] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e The third option for the community when I think about it is the external view of the community. Do you have members who keep coming back? Do you have people who are participatory in either surveys or type of feedback sessions in which they are contributing not only back to the company, but they have a That are horizontal to other members of the community where they feel like that relationship has been built up.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:32] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Another way that this can show on the external side is that it is large enough that you\u0026#39;re able to do an ambassador program? You\u0026#39;re able to have people be moderators. You\u0026#39;re tearing the community itself where there\u0026#39;s different types of facets or different types of verticals where the community can have different shapes and sizes depending on the size of it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:51] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So those are the three different ways that when you say maturity that popped in my head. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:56] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Part of the interesting thing [00:04:00] from my perspective with the company that I\u0026#39;m at, which is Kamunda is. From a just pure length of time perspective, right? Like we have data about our community back to 2013, which is a lot.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:19] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And so that\u0026#39;s part of it is, as we\u0026#39;re starting to look at this data and try and evaluate, what do we do next and how do we make decisions based on that? If we\u0026#39;re asking other companies about the type of data that they have and the type of information that they have, the fact that we have 11 years of data, most other companies are going you have way more data than we do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:39] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e You have way more information than we do. Like you\u0026#39;re so far ahead of the game, but part of that is simply when we started. Mature community. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:50] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Are you doing anything with that data? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:53] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Trying to\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:54] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e That\u0026#39;s an excellent question, Jason.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:55] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e To me that\u0026#39;s what makes them a team mature is if you\u0026#39;re not doing anything that\u0026#39;s [00:05:00] actionable and you don\u0026#39;t have a plan to take the things that you learned or the things that you\u0026#39;ve collected or whatever, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:06] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e and \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:07] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Build some process around that and do something positive with it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:11] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Then you\u0026#39;re wasting that. And you\u0026#39;re also not really a leader in the space of what, I hate using the term best practices, but if you\u0026#39;re not I feel this all the time are, am I following my advice all the time? No, but I\u0026#39;m doing my best and it\u0026#39;s not always up to one person either on how things come together.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:28] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e To me, the first thing to jump out is in terms of a mature team, like communities, probably something different, mature, like other words out there. But I\u0026#39;m starting to realize like a data dog, like building some process around stuff, having some good goals, making sure we have a clear vision and mission statement, like all these things help to me create this this maturity thing, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:53] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that was option one, right? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:55] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I think it\u0026#39;s interesting that Mary brings up 13 years of data. [00:06:00] Or I shouldn\u0026#39;t say weak. I don\u0026#39;t work at Komuna. I work at IBM, where we literally have 100 years of data and we do nothing with it. And I think that it\u0026#39;d be more accurate to say you have a 100 or you have 13 years of actionable information based on the data you\u0026#39;ve collected.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:16] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e There\u0026#39;s always been my argument and anyone who\u0026#39;s seen me speak at DevOpsDays. There\u0026#39;s a big difference between data and information. You can have a lot of data and no information. And that\u0026#39;s, because, at international business machines, we concern ourselves with the enterprise and the client, but the client isn\u0026#39;t always the community.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:35] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And the mature community model would. But even given the amount of time that we\u0026#39;ve had to collect data and look at it and evaluate it, there are still because and maybe this is part of the just large nature of a huge international conglomerate. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:51] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Community interaction that the company is very good at. And there are other parts of the company that have no idea who the community is or how to talk to them. And [00:07:00] because it\u0026#39;s so large, those two places just don\u0026#39;t talk to each other. That\u0026#39;s option two. Yes. But it\u0026#39;s like the bad version of option two.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:08] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Not everything also, as far as data goes, is going to be actionable. Like you can\u0026#39;t assume that all that data going back to 2013 is it is really even valuable because time is, this there\u0026#39;s pre COVID and post COVID there obviously, but also I just read about the dead internet theory the other day or watched a video on it and the internet in 2016, which I don\u0026#39;t disagree with there\u0026#39;s a time where things were different in terms of what we were collecting and what we thought was valuable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:37] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:37] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Today, most of us would say, page views and clicks and all that stuff. The best we had at the time. And that\u0026#39;s what we looked at the most, but that having that data from some, from several years back might not be that value. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:47] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e This goes back to a lot of the metrics conversations we have as well, though.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:50] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Like I think that 10, 15 years ago at any tech company, I would think that net promoter score was a totally valid way to look at your end users and figure out whether you were doing well. [00:08:00] Nowadays, it\u0026#39;s a huge waste. It\u0026#39;s a huge waste. That is not a way to get a grip on your community or your end users or people that are using the, that promoter score is just, in the same way that, if this was 1998, I would say, yes, if you were in the upper right magic quadrant of a Gardner square, way to go, you\u0026#39;re the best.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:17] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s not 1998, it\u0026#39;s 2024. And with 2025 rapidly approaching, you need to like everyone who complains about the metrics of determining whether a DevRel program is good or a community is mature. And meanwhile, these other people are using you know 40 year outdated metrics to say. But we\u0026#39;re doing good in the industry.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:36] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Used to believe in the net performance score too, in terms of community. But I think that someone told me this and coined it the uberfication of metrics for star rating. I like that. Like everyone gets five stars, no matter how bad your driver is. And this or they get one star, there\u0026#39;s nothing in between.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:54] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e If they have a personal interaction with the company it\u0026#39;s the same as like I give every uber driver five stars [00:09:00] because I interact with that person. If you\u0026#39;re an end user and you have a personal relationship with a salesperson or a developer advocate or a market, someone, you have said, you\u0026#39;re going to be like I thought I\u0026#39;d give them the best net promoter score I possibly can.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:12] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:12] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Because I don\u0026#39;t want to hurt so much, but that\u0026#39;s exactly what invalidates the metric. It\u0026#39;s just not valuable anymore. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:18] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it goes back to, and this is it\u0026#39;s metrics related, but I think it\u0026#39;s directly related to maturity as well. The idea of. Are you collecting metrics for metrics sake?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:30] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Are you actually collecting metrics to, Jason, your point? Are you doing anything with them? What are we doing with that data? Why are we collecting this in the first place? How are we using it to advance the programs or things like that? And part of it from my standpoint too, we have a new version of the product.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:49] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e That\u0026#39;s very specifically called a new version because it does the same things, but it\u0026#39;s a different product. And so as we\u0026#39;re looking [00:10:00] at. Are people sticking around or people churning because they want to be on the old version of the product, but we\u0026#39;re at the end of life in that, like, how does that work?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:06] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e What does that look like? Can we still call our community mature? If most of those people who have been around for that long are potentially no longer involved in the community, right? Does that change the level of maturity of the community, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:21] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e maturity of the community programs. And that\u0026#39;s where I think those two things might be separate. Because the level of maturity of the team could be 10 years on the team. I\u0026#39;m lucky enough to have a number of people who have been with the company and on my team for three years or longer at this point, that\u0026#39;s practically unheard of in DevRel, let alone tech, but that\u0026#39;s a very different thing than how mature is our community, which is a very different thing than how mature is the data that we\u0026#39;re working with and what are we doing with that data and how does it impact our [00:11:00] programs and everything else?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:02] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Option three.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:06] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Wesley is just going to underscore that he was right. And Wesley, I admit 100%. All right. Yes. And one question, one more question they have about what it takes to make a mature community program is what about the external community. So in here, I\u0026#39;ll use the example of, back in the day when I was working at Engine Yard, the Ruby and Rails community was still In comparison to other source and language, other open source and language communities.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:33] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e It was still immature. People were not building massive products in that language just yet when I first joined that team. So the external community was actually fairly immature. Which meant that we could only mature as a community team so far. And back then there were no metrics, there were no guardrails, there was no rules.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:55] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e We were just making it up as we went along. But because of that, like we [00:12:00] felt like at the end of that experiment, like around 2014, 2015, we had matured quite a bit. We had built something that was rerun, but we had. a playbook that you could follow. This was something that made the parts interchangeable, which unfortunately led to them changing our parts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:16] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Nonetheless, it was something that you could do, there was a pattern. And I think that\u0026#39;s something that only came because of the maturity of the external community growing along with our internal community. And I think that\u0026#39;s an important factor when we talk about, is a community program mature?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:33] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Is the external community of users or developers or whatever, are they also mature? Is it a matter where the only people who are really making up the community right now are those like, super cutting bleeding edge technologists who are going to adopt it, or is it a matter of.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:50] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Jason, you asked, why is it good to be mature? That\u0026#39;s not a question I\u0026#39;ve ever had to answer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:48] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e This is very timely. So yesterday I spoke at CMX Global. And my topic was about the governance of a community. So making sure that you involve the community [00:14:00] and your decisions and your planning, and also giving out some of responsibilities like moderation or something like that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:09] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So I was thinking about this and how you couldn\u0026#39;t do that without a mature community and what it does give you is scale gives you options. It gives you more that you can work with in several different dimensions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:25] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So whether you use it for product feedback, whether you use it for marketing outreach, whether you use it for like user groups, where you\u0026#39;re going to meet in different cities, physically, without maturity, you don\u0026#39;t get scale. You don\u0026#39;t enable some of these things that larger companies, larger.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:47] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Organizations or even more established organizations are able to do. So it does unlock like a new layer and new skillset. If you are able to get to the [00:15:00] place where you can build that maturity on all those different dimensions. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:03] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I love that. And the reason why I even thought that is because going back to when Mary was opening things up this has been something that\u0026#39;s been spinning on your mind for a little bit.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:16] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I\u0026#39;m just curious, like what\u0026#39;s. Motivating that what\u0026#39;s driving that, is there another part of the business that has expectations for something you\u0026#39;re involved in to be quite mature. And then just to see the other side of that coin. Sometimes I feel like being new to a situation and maybe not being all that mature means I\u0026#39;m not stuck in some old patterns and I\u0026#39;m open to new ways of doing things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:42] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So I\u0026#39;m just curious, what\u0026#39;s driving this and is there actually something uniquely about that team program, whatever that the business is after you know what I mean? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:54] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e No, that\u0026#39;s a great question. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:55] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Not exploitation of customers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:57] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e No. And it\u0026#39;s, I think part of it is [00:16:00] just. I\u0026#39;ve been thinking, is there a point at which we can go, this program is mature and like that phased iteration of, okay, we\u0026#39;re just launching it and let\u0026#39;s see how it goes for the next six months and get the baselines. And then great, let\u0026#39;s iterate on it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:14] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Is there a point that you get to where? Some of those programs can just run easily without a lot of overhead, without a lot of work, without a lot of manual intervention, right? Is there a point where you might need a senior community manager to get the program off the ground, but then you could have An intern who does the, manual follow ups and manual approvals and things like that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:43] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that a sign of maturity? But to your point, I think there\u0026#39;s some of the benefit of being quote unquote, immature is that ability to iterate quickly. Whereas once you have a fully mature [00:17:00] program that\u0026#39;s running really well, if we\u0026#39;re going to make any significant changes, that\u0026#39;s, it\u0026#39;s a lot more difficult, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:08] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Because it\u0026#39;s not just, Oh, Hey, iterate on this one little thing. Try this out, tell people we\u0026#39;re trying this out and then move forward with it. It\u0026#39;s, Oh, okay. If we\u0026#39;re going to change this, then that process that it feeds into and these things that it feeds into, and this vendor that we use to handle this side of things for the program needs to change and all of these other things, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:26] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e There\u0026#39;s a lot more built into it. There\u0026#39;s a lot more at stake. But yeah it\u0026#39;s interesting. I think on a personal level. Part of the reason I\u0026#39;m interested in this topic is because this is the first time that I have ever been at a single company and in a single role for this amount of time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:47] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Like I\u0026#39;ll be there five years in December and I\u0026#39;ve been at other companies for a long time, but always switching roles within the company. But like I started as [00:18:00] director of developer relations, I\u0026#39;m still director of developer relations and I\u0026#39;m okay with that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:04] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And so some of it is also like my considering my own career trajectory and what\u0026#39;s changed and what\u0026#39;s different. And the team is very different than it was when I started. The program is different than it was when I started. Where does that leave? Me, what are my day to day responsibilities if we\u0026#39;re not changing and iterating on things?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:26] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And I don\u0026#39;t think that\u0026#39;s a bad thing, but it\u0026#39;s just, it\u0026#39;s a very different perspective for me to have from always running, always working long days, always launching big programs, always launching new things. That\u0026#39;s a personal adjustment. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:43] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e But I\u0026#39;m curious, because when we talk about cause I feel like in some ways, like Jason, what you\u0026#39;re talking about is like, what should our goal be?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:48] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Maturity share metrics are focused on maturity. And I think that a lot of places never get out of that. Iterative part. And the reason why they don\u0026#39;t [00:19:00] is partially because they go through these iterations of the team. So you have, you have, okay. So I bring in PJ and he works, he contracts with us through DevRelate for a year.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:11] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Great. Then, somewhere towards the end of the year, he brings in a permanent, developer advocate. Great. Cool. And then they actually start to reform things and reshift them. Oh, and then our understanding of how DevRel works. Oh, and then there\u0026#39;s just a pandemic in the middle of that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:23] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Company \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:24] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e and it almost makes it impossible for any company to have a community program. I feel like one of the benefits that you have at Kamunda, Mary, and you can correct me if I\u0026#39;m wrong, is their dedication to building a community program from the top down.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:39] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:39] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I don\u0026#39;t think every company has that. I think a lot of departments have that, or a lot of groups have that, but a lot of companies do not have that. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:47] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:48] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think that\u0026#39;s why it\u0026#39;s difficult to find a similar situation to yours. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:52] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Another, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:54] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So I\u0026#39;ve been, on a few different teams now and Devereux related teams of various maturity, I think really it\u0026#39;s [00:20:00] more that it\u0026#39;s a moving target of course it\u0026#39;s a spectrum in terms of how you measure How mature a team is.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:07] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e But I feel like. Teams change in terms of the people that make up those teams and the priorities of the org that you\u0026#39;re in. Some companies might have a whole quarter where they\u0026#39;re just, okay. Ours are really focused on one very specific thing that really don\u0026#39;t reflect the team as a whole, but this is what the company needed to focus on right now.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:30] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And we\u0026#39;re all coming together to make that work. Everything\u0026#39;s just a freaking moving target and to come up with that \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:36] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e should be the standard DevRel tattoo. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:37] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I don\u0026#39;t want maturity. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:38] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I will need the pins.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:39] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Hey, Oh. I don\u0026#39;t think maturity is a target and you get there and then you\u0026#39;re done. And like magically doors open up and all these things that Wesley\u0026#39;s talking about are totally true, but I feel like what may have seemed mature.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:53] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e A couple of years ago, quote, best practices just aren\u0026#39;t, they aren\u0026#39;t anymore and that\u0026#39;s, things are [00:21:00] just different. So we\u0026#39;re starting off with a new, Blank slate pretty frequently. And that\u0026#39;s where, I don\u0026#39;t know, that\u0026#39;s where we get, I think, mixed up on what\u0026#39;s important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:11] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e To measure and what\u0026#39;s important to take action on with the measurement. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:16] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Thanks for sharing with everybody.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@scw1217?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\"\u003eSuzanne D. Williams\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/photos/three-pupas-VMKBFR6r_jg?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Recently, the topic of DevRel maturity sparked a conversation: What qualities define a mature community and a seasoned team? Join PJ, Jason, Mary, and Wesley as they share their insights on past experiences, current trends shaping the field, and key indicators to monitor as you strive to build a thriving, successful community.","date_published":"2024-11-18T08:15:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/bb03bfc7-8f59-4d79-94fe-19f2c3982571.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":64119185,"duration_in_seconds":1585}]},{"id":"2309af78-db10-4156-858e-ea37ee3fabba","title":"After Pulse: Community Conferences","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/90ap","content_text":"In this episode of After Pulse, Jason Hand and Wesley Faulkner reflect on the challenges and evolution of community conferences, especially in the aftermath of COVID-19. The conversation revolves around the changing landscape of these events, including financial, logistical, and cultural shifts.\n\nJason opens the discussion by expressing how the podcast’s previous episode, where they talked to guests Matty Stratton and Mo McElaney about community events, raised more questions than answers. He notes that while conferences were once easier to organize with ample sponsorship funds, the landscape has shifted significantly, especially with the impact of COVID. He recalls the immense effort that went into organizing DevOpsDays Rockies, including the burnout he and other organizers faced, and reflects on the need for a change in how such events are structured.\n\nWesley acknowledges the high cost of attending conferences, noting that ticket prices have increased significantly over the years, along with attendees' higher expectations. He highlights how, in the past, attendees were satisfied with simpler events, but today, conferences are expected to provide extras like swag, high-quality food, and receptions. These heightened expectations, combined with the rising costs, make it harder for community-run events to maintain their appeal. Wesley suggests that perhaps a \"refactor\" of the conference model is needed—one that focuses more on community involvement and less on corporate sponsorship, emphasizing the need for more volunteer-driven, scrappy events.\n\nJason points out that the growth of events like DevOpsDays Rockies in the past decade led to increasingly large venues and more extravagant setups to meet the growing demand. However, after COVID, things have shifted towards smaller, more intimate gatherings, with some events being canceled or rescheduled due to various reasons. He expresses hope that these smaller gatherings, like the Wild Spaces initiative in Denver, will serve as a creative alternative to the traditional conference model, focusing on connecting people in less formal settings. Jason imagines a future where people gather in parks with simple tools like whiteboards, without the need for elaborate setups, to foster a more organic exchange of ideas.\n\nWesley also discusses the maturation of the DevOps space, suggesting that many of the core problems have already been solved, leaving less room for groundbreaking discussions. This has led to a sense of stagnation, with community members having \"graduated\" beyond the need for typical conference content. He believes there is a need for events that focus on high-quality content and true knowledge sharing, rather than just drawing large crowds with celebrity speakers.\n\nFurther into the conversation, Wesley addresses the difficulty in finding the right community events to sponsor or participate in. He notes that, unlike large corporate conferences, community events tend to be fragmented, and it's hard for potential sponsors to find events that fit their needs. He highlights the lack of a central entity that could streamline the process of finding and funding these events, making it difficult for smaller events to compete with the larger, corporate-driven ones.\nFinally, Jason and Wesley discuss the possibility of a future shift where community events become more personal and focused on deep, meaningful exchanges, rather than simply being large-scale spectacles. Jason admits that he misses the community aspect but also feels relieved to step away from the burnout of large-scale event organization. Both hosts agree that there’s hope for the future of community events, but they must evolve creatively to stay relevant and sustainable.\n\nKeywords:\nCommunity Conferences\nPost-COVID Challenges\nSponsorship\nTicket Costs\nVolunteer-Driven Events\nEvent Sustainability\nBurnout\nReimagining Conferences\nSmaller, Intimate Gatherings\nEvent Expectations\nCorporate Sponsorship\nDevOpsDays\nEvent Innovation\nAudience Engagement\nQuality Content\nWork Culture\n\nThemes:\nChanging Landscape of Community Events:\n\n\nThe transition from large, corporate-driven events to more intimate, community-focused gatherings.\nIncreased costs and rising expectations around conference quality, including swag, food, and networking opportunities.\n\n\nPost-COVID Adjustments:\n\n\nThe impact of COVID-19 on the event industry, with many conferences either canceled or downsized.\nThe shift toward smaller, more sustainable gatherings to maintain a community feel.\n\n\nBurnout and Sustainability:\n\n\nThe burnout experienced by event organizers due to the intense workload and high expectations.\nThe need for a shift in event structures to ensure long-term sustainability without overwhelming organizers.\n\n\nThe Rise of Volunteer-Driven, Scrappy Events:\n\n\nThe idea that future community events could become more volunteer-driven, with fewer resources but a stronger sense of community.\nThe potential for outdoor, low-budget gatherings as a viable alternative to traditional corporate-sponsored conferences.\n\n\nEvolving Expectations and the Need for Quality Content:\n\n\nThe maturation of communities such as DevOps, with fewer new problems to solve, leading to less excitement around large conferences.\nA push for events that focus on high-quality, meaningful content rather than just drawing large crowds with high-profile speakers.\n\n\nChallenges in Finding and Funding Smaller Events:\n\n\nThe difficulty in identifying the right community events to sponsor or participate in due to the fragmented nature of the community space.\nThe lack of a centralized platform or entity to help streamline event participation and funding.\n\n\nReimagining the Future of Conferences:\n\n\nThe idea that conferences may need to evolve creatively, focusing more on knowledge sharing and personal connections than on large-scale spectacles.\nThe potential for a shift away from big-budget events toward more grassroots, community-oriented models.\n\n\nTranscript\n\n[00:00:00] Jason Hand: That was a really great episode. \n\n[00:00:02] Wesley Faulkner: Yes. Actually, it was more filled with questions. Content that I didn't expect because I thought I knew the subject so well, but hearing those perspectives actually really put it in focus for me. \n\n[00:00:15] Jason Hand: And we also completely went off script. We had a, what, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight questions pre selected that we were going to get through.\n\n[00:00:24] Jason Hand: We didn't even get through half of them. And we also pivoted and changed the course a little bit based on how the conversation went along. \n\n[00:00:31] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah, it was really great. \n\n[00:00:33] Jason Hand: Yeah for anyone who may have stumbled across the after polls before listening to the community polls, we just got done talking with two of our guests Matty, a Stratton and Mo MacElaney. I'm pronouncing her last name wrong.\n\n[00:00:45] Jason Hand: But it goes back. And we basically wanted to talk about community events and where we are with it and how things have changed. We talked a lot. Where things are, how things have changed through COVID and did bucket things into a pre COVID post COVID a lot of different [00:01:00] subjects.\n\n[00:01:00] Jason Hand: That we got into there. And I thought it was really interesting. I think nobody's surprised that budgets have tightened up and that it's just harder to do things the way we used to do it. And I don't know if that's because money was just easier to come by, sponsorship money.\n\n[00:01:15] Jason Hand: It was, so therefore it was easier to like, put these things together. But times have changed and COVID did that did play a big role in that. But I think we also identify that it's not just that. I think that some of us that have been involved with these things, we're all changing too, and most of us are still involved with these types of roles professionally, but at least for me personally, I pointed out that I Tend to shy away from spending a lot of my free time, and when I think about DevOps days Rockies, which is like the core main community event that I was involved with for years, I felt like I was working round the clock for the months and months leading up to that. And me, not just me other organizers as well. And that, I think I knew it was never really [00:02:00] sustainable, but it took a couple burnout sessions, burnout, periods for me too.\n\n[00:02:05] Jason Hand: Finally, I just don't think I want to keep doing this. I don't think it's worth the burnout. I don't think it's worth the effort. And then also I think it's always good to get out of the way and let other people step in and take charge a little bit and just see what they can do with stuff.\n\n[00:02:22] Jason Hand: So it was nice to hear a little bit of confirmation, that it's not just me that feels that way. What's your take on that? \n\n[00:02:29] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah, it does take a lot of time to go to these events, but I also wanted to say it does take a lot of money and we were talking about sponsorships and getting enough sponsors, but I'm talking from the attendee perspective, I think.\n\n[00:02:41] Wesley Faulkner: Ticket costs, entry fees have also steadily moved up as I think the expectations have also moved up of what to expect from a conference. I do remember like a decade, two decades ago when going to conferences, the expectations We're way [00:03:00] smaller. You just expected to run into people, have a microphone, maybe, sometimes not, a cafeteria, auditorium.\n\n[00:03:09] Wesley Faulkner: But now there's swag that's expected. There's branded t-shirts and lanyards and receptions, food and drink. It's less scrappy. And so the expectations have made it so that it's less achievable. I think for me going to conferences I don't know how many I would go to if my employer wasn't helping to pay the bill for me to get there, both from a transportation cost, but also just the ticket costs are high.\n\n[00:03:36] Wesley Faulkner: And so I do think maybe a refactoring is needed where it pushes aside the corporate sponsorship to be more scrappy and more community involved to make sure things happen. A lot more volunteers, a lot more donated spaces or even like an outdoor park, or there are ways to have some of this communion without some of the fanfare that I think [00:04:00] I at least have gotten to the point where I'm expecting when I go to a conference.\n\n[00:04:04] Jason Hand: And I think of some of them. Disappointment. I feel in my nostalgia about how things used to be in the good old days is just a victim of success for a lot of these events, they started off small or smaller than they were, pre COVID and then. With popularity of the events, mostly speaking again of DevOps, these Rockies, it started off, maybe a hundred people, a couple hundred people, and then it just kept growing and growing.\n\n[00:04:29] Jason Hand: People get, the word got out that this is a valuable event. And not just for the participants, folks that are showing up as attendees to sit in the audience, but also those who were speaking and the sponsors. And it just, there was a lot of value being like plugged into that community.\n\n[00:04:45] Jason Hand: And so it kept growing and growing. And in order to make sure that we are being inclusive of all the people that want to come, we kept having to get a larger and larger venue and we'd have to get larger food, more coffee and more swag.\n\n[00:04:58] Jason Hand: And it just kept [00:05:00] getting larger and larger just to meet, I guess what you'd say is the demand of that event. And then COVID came around and reset things a little bit. But I think it didn't completely reset for everybody. It hasn't been really until after COVID that I've seen things start to trend a little bit in the smaller direction where Matty pointed out, a lot of DevOps days, events have.\n\n[00:05:21] Jason Hand: Had to either change dates or just completely cancel for a variety of reasons, many contributing factors. And I know in Denver, it's the same, but I think it's neat to see this re-imagining of what these events can be, at the point is to just get members of the community together and share ideas.\n\n[00:05:41] Jason Hand: Let's not lose sight of that. There's a lot of ways that can be done. You don't need a quarter of a million dollar budget like Chicago had for their DevOps days. I pointed out, there's some folks from the local people here in Denver, who are now doing this wild spaces thing, which I think sounds really cool, really creative, maybe for those who like to be outdoors and enjoy camping and things like that.[00:06:00] \n\n[00:06:00] Jason Hand: But to me, that's, it's thinking outside of how things used to be done. And I hope that there's more of that. I actually had this vision recently of just getting people together. I don't know, at a park. I think you mentioned bringing, bringing people together at a park and having just a whiteboard or you remember those old projectors that's just like a lamp and the, like the clear.\n\n[00:06:22] Wesley Faulkner: The overheads. \n\n[00:06:23] Jason Hand: We don't have to have these big blown out produced events to get people together to share ideas and to learn. \n\n[00:06:30] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah. \n\n[00:06:31] Jason Hand: And I think I've come to that. Realization or, I've at least accepted that recently.\n\n[00:06:37] Jason Hand: And it hasn't quite pushed me to the point where I'm ready to start something. But I would maybe think about attending something like that more than I would an event that looks more like a community event. And some of that's also just like I pointed out, at least for the community events that I go to, so many of our challenges have been solved and outside of [00:07:00] AI, I don't know what else there is to talk about. We have come up with good solutions. I hate the term best practices. It really does depend on the situation, the company, the community. But I think we've shared a lot of ideas that have really helped others grow. And so what's left to really talk about, I think, is another vibe that I'm having.\n\n[00:07:21] Wesley Faulkner: So the space is matured enough that we're not solving new problems. We're just rehashing old things. And then that causes the people who've been a part of the space to almost graduate out, like they've matured past having to have these discussions and look for these answers. And it's just a really good point in terms of innovation.\n\n[00:07:38] Wesley Faulkner: I think there's also a stagnation there. I have had people, even colleagues, say that they want to get in front of developers and they think community events are a good way of doing it, but they can't find them. They don't know attendance numbers. They don't know locations. They don't know how, if there's a way to easily even give them [00:08:00] funds.\n\n[00:08:00] Wesley Faulkner: Do they have an entity to give them funds? Does a PO need to be created? It's not been like an Uber. Events created where there's a one stop shop to actually find these. If I wanted to get in front of a. net developers, then I have to do the research. I have to do the work to find out which conferences cater to this group, what are the sponsorship packages like, and there's not really been an innovation or a focus on.\n\n[00:08:24] Wesley Faulkner: On doing that, because these groups are all diffuse. They're not one conglomerate that's able to lobby this to get together and to solve this problem. And there's no way that someone else could be the authority of this, where they would be able to have that power to be able to do that. Everyone is doing these events because they are getting to their own specific audience.\n\n[00:08:43] Wesley Faulkner: They want to do it their own specific way. And it's something where, unless something. Can make it easier for people to give them money. The money will continue to probably be an issue going forward, but it also, hopefully it'll move into more intimate spaces, more conversations that happen [00:09:00] around things like for me, I am still extremely interested into work culture and environments.\n\n[00:09:06] Wesley Faulkner: How do we make sure that, yes, I know I need to, what I need to do, how can I make sure I create an environment where I can do my best work? How do I create an environment where. When there is a forecast that there could be a catastrophic failure, meaning a la like CrowdStrike either from the CrowdStrike side saying, like, how do we make sure that we do better testing or from the customer standpoint of saying, how do we be more redundant and how do we make sure that this is not an exposure we have?\n\n[00:09:35] Wesley Faulkner: Those conversations, I think probably did happen, but no one was able to really get those points across. So I think creating a culture around getting work done is something I would still like to get a fix and work out. But how do we make space for these conversations that still need to be had, even though that like a bulk of the, yes, we know how to solve it, but the question of how do we implement those solutions are still something that [00:10:00] I still need to be hashed out.\n\n[00:10:02] Jason Hand: Yeah, you made me think of something too. Obviously there's places online there's community groups or slack groups and discord and whatever, where there are people getting together and talking about stuff, but I still stand on that. I'm not going to go to a lot of after hours things.\n\n[00:10:16] Jason Hand: And I know at least my company data dog and others, like we have policies on how many. Conferences, community events, whatever it is that you can actually go to, especially if travel is involved. Many of them have limitations on how much they can get involved and how many of those events that they can go to.\n\n[00:10:35] Jason Hand: And if they've only got a couple that they can actually set aside time or budget or whatever to attend. They're probably going to pick the ones that have the biggest return on investment. And I'm not just talking about money. Like actual energy that's invested to go to these things. And it might not be the community events, they're just not providing the same value that they used to.\n\n[00:10:56] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah. What came first? The value the [00:11:00] focus or is it the money and the expectations that maybe it's COVID maybe it's business needs. I think generally speaking, time has been inconsistent and less predictable and that's making it more complicated.\n\n[00:11:15] Wesley Faulkner: Hopefully, I hope these. Community events still continue. I would like to still see them exist. I think it would be a sad thing if they all went away. So I hope that things get figured out either on the company side, the attendee side, or the organizational side to make it sustainable and if it needs to change, if it needs to have a different structure, or if it Needs to have a re-imagining of some sort.\n\n[00:11:38] Wesley Faulkner: I just want to see them still go because I still have a fondness for them. I don't know if it's more of a retro thing of thinking about how I got my start, how I got to meet some of the people I've met, and or maybe that just makes me old . \n\n[00:11:50] Jason Hand: We are getting up there. Yeah. I think there is, I don't think things are just gonna go away.\n\n[00:11:54] Jason Hand: I don't think we're gonna wake up one day and there's no more community events. I think that they're just evolving. [00:12:00] And maybe they're getting smaller. We did have a bunch of questions that we didn't get to, like, how do you ensure that you can scale some of these community events? And I don't know, I think what I'm concluding is that we all agree that maybe that's not necessary.\n\n[00:12:13] Jason Hand: Maybe that's part of the problem is that we expected these things to just continue to grow. They don't need to or they need to shift in some way. And also the question of like, how do you continue putting on high quality events? Quality is, it's quite subjective and what makes a high quality event?\n\n[00:12:31] Jason Hand: Do you have to have a large screen that slides are being put onto with a really great PA system and like food is really good. And the coffee's great. And yeah, these, the, after so afterwards, social hours, like a cannot miss type of thing. We could have gone into that and that would have probably been much more interesting pre COVID because I felt like you did see that a lot across community events as you were.\n\n[00:12:57] Jason Hand: I think maybe we have to reassess what [00:13:00] better means. I'm just here to learn. I'm here to make connections and I want a better experience around that.\n\n[00:13:05] Jason Hand: I don't necessarily need this, high product high highly produced. Things. And I think that's totally fine too. \n\n[00:13:15] Wesley Faulkner: I think it would also be nice if we had more conferences too. Yeah, which is more of a focus on people sharing knowledge, which I think some of this has been highlighted that it's a popularity contest when you talk about speakers, getting the big names.\n\n[00:13:27] Wesley Faulkner: And the bigger names drawing bigger crowds to keep that up. But if we go back to the content and have high quality content, hopefully maybe we'll see more of those. Yeah. \n\n[00:13:39] Jason Hand: Yeah, I totally agree. I think we are just about out of time here for our after polls. But Wesley, this was fun getting together with you and chatting with Mo and Matty.\n\n[00:13:50] Jason Hand: It is always fun to have them around and learn. And I don't know, it's definitely been a nice conversation just to revisit some things around the community. I know, like I've [00:14:00] mentioned, I haven't been as involved. I miss it, but also I don't miss, like some aspects of it, but I also definitely miss it.\n\n[00:14:07] Jason Hand: Other aspects too. So I'm hoping that there's like a shift towards something new that draws me in. I'm sure there will be, there's ways that you can get people off the couch or, change their plans from doing something boring to going and meeting with some people.\n\n[00:14:25] Jason Hand: But I think we're going to have to get creative about it. And I'm looking forward to seeing what comes from some of the community events that are out there, \n\n[00:14:33] Wesley Faulkner: wise words, good thoughts, good hopes. And I think that concludes our after post after pulse, and hopefully we'll have PJ and Mary on our next show.\n\n[00:14:44] Wesley Faulkner: Thank you for listening and we will see you all next time.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIn this episode of After Pulse, Jason Hand and Wesley Faulkner reflect on the challenges and evolution of community conferences, especially in the aftermath of COVID-19. The conversation revolves around the changing landscape of these events, including financial, logistical, and cultural shifts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason opens the discussion by expressing how the podcast’s previous episode, where they talked to guests Matty Stratton and Mo McElaney about community events, raised more questions than answers. He notes that while conferences were once easier to organize with ample sponsorship funds, the landscape has shifted significantly, especially with the impact of COVID. He recalls the immense effort that went into organizing DevOpsDays Rockies, including the burnout he and other organizers faced, and reflects on the need for a change in how such events are structured.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley acknowledges the high cost of attending conferences, noting that ticket prices have increased significantly over the years, along with attendees\u0026#39; higher expectations. He highlights how, in the past, attendees were satisfied with simpler events, but today, conferences are expected to provide extras like swag, high-quality food, and receptions. These heightened expectations, combined with the rising costs, make it harder for community-run events to maintain their appeal. Wesley suggests that perhaps a \u0026quot;refactor\u0026quot; of the conference model is needed—one that focuses more on community involvement and less on corporate sponsorship, emphasizing the need for more volunteer-driven, scrappy events.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason points out that the growth of events like DevOpsDays Rockies in the past decade led to increasingly large venues and more extravagant setups to meet the growing demand. However, after COVID, things have shifted towards smaller, more intimate gatherings, with some events being canceled or rescheduled due to various reasons. He expresses hope that these smaller gatherings, like the Wild Spaces initiative in Denver, will serve as a creative alternative to the traditional conference model, focusing on connecting people in less formal settings. Jason imagines a future where people gather in parks with simple tools like whiteboards, without the need for elaborate setups, to foster a more organic exchange of ideas.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley also discusses the maturation of the DevOps space, suggesting that many of the core problems have already been solved, leaving less room for groundbreaking discussions. This has led to a sense of stagnation, with community members having \u0026quot;graduated\u0026quot; beyond the need for typical conference content. He believes there is a need for events that focus on high-quality content and true knowledge sharing, rather than just drawing large crowds with celebrity speakers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eFurther into the conversation, Wesley addresses the difficulty in finding the right community events to sponsor or participate in. He notes that, unlike large corporate conferences, community events tend to be fragmented, and it\u0026#39;s hard for potential sponsors to find events that fit their needs. He highlights the lack of a central entity that could streamline the process of finding and funding these events, making it difficult for smaller events to compete with the larger, corporate-driven ones.\u003cbr\u003e\nFinally, Jason and Wesley discuss the possibility of a future shift where community events become more personal and focused on deep, meaningful exchanges, rather than simply being large-scale spectacles. Jason admits that he misses the community aspect but also feels relieved to step away from the burnout of large-scale event organization. Both hosts agree that there’s hope for the future of community events, but they must evolve creatively to stay relevant and sustainable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKeywords:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nCommunity Conferences\u003cbr\u003e\nPost-COVID Challenges\u003cbr\u003e\nSponsorship\u003cbr\u003e\nTicket Costs\u003cbr\u003e\nVolunteer-Driven Events\u003cbr\u003e\nEvent Sustainability\u003cbr\u003e\nBurnout\u003cbr\u003e\nReimagining Conferences\u003cbr\u003e\nSmaller, Intimate Gatherings\u003cbr\u003e\nEvent Expectations\u003cbr\u003e\nCorporate Sponsorship\u003cbr\u003e\nDevOpsDays\u003cbr\u003e\nEvent Innovation\u003cbr\u003e\nAudience Engagement\u003cbr\u003e\nQuality Content\u003cbr\u003e\nWork Culture\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThemes:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eChanging Landscape of Community Events:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe transition from large, corporate-driven events to more intimate, community-focused gatherings.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eIncreased costs and rising expectations around conference quality, including swag, food, and networking opportunities.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePost-COVID Adjustments:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe impact of COVID-19 on the event industry, with many conferences either canceled or downsized.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe shift toward smaller, more sustainable gatherings to maintain a community feel.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBurnout and Sustainability:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe burnout experienced by event organizers due to the intense workload and high expectations.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe need for a shift in event structures to ensure long-term sustainability without overwhelming organizers.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Rise of Volunteer-Driven, Scrappy Events:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe idea that future community events could become more volunteer-driven, with fewer resources but a stronger sense of community.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe potential for outdoor, low-budget gatherings as a viable alternative to traditional corporate-sponsored conferences.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEvolving Expectations and the Need for Quality Content:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe maturation of communities such as DevOps, with fewer new problems to solve, leading to less excitement around large conferences.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eA push for events that focus on high-quality, meaningful content rather than just drawing large crowds with high-profile speakers.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eChallenges in Finding and Funding Smaller Events:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe difficulty in identifying the right community events to sponsor or participate in due to the fragmented nature of the community space.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe lack of a centralized platform or entity to help streamline event participation and funding.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eReimagining the Future of Conferences:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe idea that conferences may need to evolve creatively, focusing more on knowledge sharing and personal connections than on large-scale spectacles.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe potential for a shift away from big-budget events toward more grassroots, community-oriented models.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003ch2\u003eTranscript\u003c/h2\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:00] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e That was a really great episode. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:02] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Actually, it was more filled with questions. Content that I didn\u0026#39;t expect because I thought I knew the subject so well, but hearing those perspectives actually really put it in focus for me. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:15] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And we also completely went off script. We had a, what, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight questions pre selected that we were going to get through.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:24] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e We didn\u0026#39;t even get through half of them. And we also pivoted and changed the course a little bit based on how the conversation went along. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:31] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, it was really great. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:33] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah for anyone who may have stumbled across the after polls before listening to the community polls, we just got done talking with two of our guests Matty, a Stratton and Mo MacElaney. I\u0026#39;m pronouncing her last name wrong.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:45] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e But it goes back. And we basically wanted to talk about community events and where we are with it and how things have changed. We talked a lot. Where things are, how things have changed through COVID and did bucket things into a pre COVID post COVID a lot of different [00:01:00] subjects.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:00] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e That we got into there. And I thought it was really interesting. I think nobody\u0026#39;s surprised that budgets have tightened up and that it\u0026#39;s just harder to do things the way we used to do it. And I don\u0026#39;t know if that\u0026#39;s because money was just easier to come by, sponsorship money.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:15] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e It was, so therefore it was easier to like, put these things together. But times have changed and COVID did that did play a big role in that. But I think we also identify that it\u0026#39;s not just that. I think that some of us that have been involved with these things, we\u0026#39;re all changing too, and most of us are still involved with these types of roles professionally, but at least for me personally, I pointed out that I Tend to shy away from spending a lot of my free time, and when I think about DevOps days Rockies, which is like the core main community event that I was involved with for years, I felt like I was working round the clock for the months and months leading up to that. And me, not just me other organizers as well. And that, I think I knew it was never really [00:02:00] sustainable, but it took a couple burnout sessions, burnout, periods for me too.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:05] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Finally, I just don\u0026#39;t think I want to keep doing this. I don\u0026#39;t think it\u0026#39;s worth the burnout. I don\u0026#39;t think it\u0026#39;s worth the effort. And then also I think it\u0026#39;s always good to get out of the way and let other people step in and take charge a little bit and just see what they can do with stuff.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:22] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So it was nice to hear a little bit of confirmation, that it\u0026#39;s not just me that feels that way. What\u0026#39;s your take on that? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:29] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, it does take a lot of time to go to these events, but I also wanted to say it does take a lot of money and we were talking about sponsorships and getting enough sponsors, but I\u0026#39;m talking from the attendee perspective, I think.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:41] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Ticket costs, entry fees have also steadily moved up as I think the expectations have also moved up of what to expect from a conference. I do remember like a decade, two decades ago when going to conferences, the expectations We\u0026#39;re way [00:03:00] smaller. You just expected to run into people, have a microphone, maybe, sometimes not, a cafeteria, auditorium.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:09] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e But now there\u0026#39;s swag that\u0026#39;s expected. There\u0026#39;s branded t-shirts and lanyards and receptions, food and drink. It\u0026#39;s less scrappy. And so the expectations have made it so that it\u0026#39;s less achievable. I think for me going to conferences I don\u0026#39;t know how many I would go to if my employer wasn\u0026#39;t helping to pay the bill for me to get there, both from a transportation cost, but also just the ticket costs are high.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:36] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And so I do think maybe a refactoring is needed where it pushes aside the corporate sponsorship to be more scrappy and more community involved to make sure things happen. A lot more volunteers, a lot more donated spaces or even like an outdoor park, or there are ways to have some of this communion without some of the fanfare that I think [00:04:00] I at least have gotten to the point where I\u0026#39;m expecting when I go to a conference.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:04] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think of some of them. Disappointment. I feel in my nostalgia about how things used to be in the good old days is just a victim of success for a lot of these events, they started off small or smaller than they were, pre COVID and then. With popularity of the events, mostly speaking again of DevOps, these Rockies, it started off, maybe a hundred people, a couple hundred people, and then it just kept growing and growing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:29] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e People get, the word got out that this is a valuable event. And not just for the participants, folks that are showing up as attendees to sit in the audience, but also those who were speaking and the sponsors. And it just, there was a lot of value being like plugged into that community.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:45] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And so it kept growing and growing. And in order to make sure that we are being inclusive of all the people that want to come, we kept having to get a larger and larger venue and we\u0026#39;d have to get larger food, more coffee and more swag.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:58] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And it just kept [00:05:00] getting larger and larger just to meet, I guess what you\u0026#39;d say is the demand of that event. And then COVID came around and reset things a little bit. But I think it didn\u0026#39;t completely reset for everybody. It hasn\u0026#39;t been really until after COVID that I\u0026#39;ve seen things start to trend a little bit in the smaller direction where Matty pointed out, a lot of DevOps days, events have.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:21] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Had to either change dates or just completely cancel for a variety of reasons, many contributing factors. And I know in Denver, it\u0026#39;s the same, but I think it\u0026#39;s neat to see this re-imagining of what these events can be, at the point is to just get members of the community together and share ideas.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:41] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Let\u0026#39;s not lose sight of that. There\u0026#39;s a lot of ways that can be done. You don\u0026#39;t need a quarter of a million dollar budget like Chicago had for their DevOps days. I pointed out, there\u0026#39;s some folks from the local people here in Denver, who are now doing this wild spaces thing, which I think sounds really cool, really creative, maybe for those who like to be outdoors and enjoy camping and things like that.[00:06:00] \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:00] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e But to me, that\u0026#39;s, it\u0026#39;s thinking outside of how things used to be done. And I hope that there\u0026#39;s more of that. I actually had this vision recently of just getting people together. I don\u0026#39;t know, at a park. I think you mentioned bringing, bringing people together at a park and having just a whiteboard or you remember those old projectors that\u0026#39;s just like a lamp and the, like the clear.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:22] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e The overheads. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:23] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e We don\u0026#39;t have to have these big blown out produced events to get people together to share ideas and to learn. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:30] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:31] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think I\u0026#39;ve come to that. Realization or, I\u0026#39;ve at least accepted that recently.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:37] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And it hasn\u0026#39;t quite pushed me to the point where I\u0026#39;m ready to start something. But I would maybe think about attending something like that more than I would an event that looks more like a community event. And some of that\u0026#39;s also just like I pointed out, at least for the community events that I go to, so many of our challenges have been solved and outside of [00:07:00] AI, I don\u0026#39;t know what else there is to talk about. We have come up with good solutions. I hate the term best practices. It really does depend on the situation, the company, the community. But I think we\u0026#39;ve shared a lot of ideas that have really helped others grow. And so what\u0026#39;s left to really talk about, I think, is another vibe that I\u0026#39;m having.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:21] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So the space is matured enough that we\u0026#39;re not solving new problems. We\u0026#39;re just rehashing old things. And then that causes the people who\u0026#39;ve been a part of the space to almost graduate out, like they\u0026#39;ve matured past having to have these discussions and look for these answers. And it\u0026#39;s just a really good point in terms of innovation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:38] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I think there\u0026#39;s also a stagnation there. I have had people, even colleagues, say that they want to get in front of developers and they think community events are a good way of doing it, but they can\u0026#39;t find them. They don\u0026#39;t know attendance numbers. They don\u0026#39;t know locations. They don\u0026#39;t know how, if there\u0026#39;s a way to easily even give them [00:08:00] funds.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:00] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Do they have an entity to give them funds? Does a PO need to be created? It\u0026#39;s not been like an Uber. Events created where there\u0026#39;s a one stop shop to actually find these. If I wanted to get in front of a. net developers, then I have to do the research. I have to do the work to find out which conferences cater to this group, what are the sponsorship packages like, and there\u0026#39;s not really been an innovation or a focus on.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:24] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e On doing that, because these groups are all diffuse. They\u0026#39;re not one conglomerate that\u0026#39;s able to lobby this to get together and to solve this problem. And there\u0026#39;s no way that someone else could be the authority of this, where they would be able to have that power to be able to do that. Everyone is doing these events because they are getting to their own specific audience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:43] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e They want to do it their own specific way. And it\u0026#39;s something where, unless something. Can make it easier for people to give them money. The money will continue to probably be an issue going forward, but it also, hopefully it\u0026#39;ll move into more intimate spaces, more conversations that happen [00:09:00] around things like for me, I am still extremely interested into work culture and environments.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:06] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e How do we make sure that, yes, I know I need to, what I need to do, how can I make sure I create an environment where I can do my best work? How do I create an environment where. When there is a forecast that there could be a catastrophic failure, meaning a la like CrowdStrike either from the CrowdStrike side saying, like, how do we make sure that we do better testing or from the customer standpoint of saying, how do we be more redundant and how do we make sure that this is not an exposure we have?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:35] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Those conversations, I think probably did happen, but no one was able to really get those points across. So I think creating a culture around getting work done is something I would still like to get a fix and work out. But how do we make space for these conversations that still need to be had, even though that like a bulk of the, yes, we know how to solve it, but the question of how do we implement those solutions are still something that [00:10:00] I still need to be hashed out.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:02] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, you made me think of something too. Obviously there\u0026#39;s places online there\u0026#39;s community groups or slack groups and discord and whatever, where there are people getting together and talking about stuff, but I still stand on that. I\u0026#39;m not going to go to a lot of after hours things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:16] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I know at least my company data dog and others, like we have policies on how many. Conferences, community events, whatever it is that you can actually go to, especially if travel is involved. Many of them have limitations on how much they can get involved and how many of those events that they can go to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:35] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And if they\u0026#39;ve only got a couple that they can actually set aside time or budget or whatever to attend. They\u0026#39;re probably going to pick the ones that have the biggest return on investment. And I\u0026#39;m not just talking about money. Like actual energy that\u0026#39;s invested to go to these things. And it might not be the community events, they\u0026#39;re just not providing the same value that they used to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:56] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. What came first? The value the [00:11:00] focus or is it the money and the expectations that maybe it\u0026#39;s COVID maybe it\u0026#39;s business needs. I think generally speaking, time has been inconsistent and less predictable and that\u0026#39;s making it more complicated.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:15] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Hopefully, I hope these. Community events still continue. I would like to still see them exist. I think it would be a sad thing if they all went away. So I hope that things get figured out either on the company side, the attendee side, or the organizational side to make it sustainable and if it needs to change, if it needs to have a different structure, or if it Needs to have a re-imagining of some sort.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:38] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I just want to see them still go because I still have a fondness for them. I don\u0026#39;t know if it\u0026#39;s more of a retro thing of thinking about how I got my start, how I got to meet some of the people I\u0026#39;ve met, and or maybe that just makes me old . \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:50] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e We are getting up there. Yeah. I think there is, I don\u0026#39;t think things are just gonna go away.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:54] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I don\u0026#39;t think we\u0026#39;re gonna wake up one day and there\u0026#39;s no more community events. I think that they\u0026#39;re just evolving. [00:12:00] And maybe they\u0026#39;re getting smaller. We did have a bunch of questions that we didn\u0026#39;t get to, like, how do you ensure that you can scale some of these community events? And I don\u0026#39;t know, I think what I\u0026#39;m concluding is that we all agree that maybe that\u0026#39;s not necessary.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:13] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe that\u0026#39;s part of the problem is that we expected these things to just continue to grow. They don\u0026#39;t need to or they need to shift in some way. And also the question of like, how do you continue putting on high quality events? Quality is, it\u0026#39;s quite subjective and what makes a high quality event?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:31] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you have to have a large screen that slides are being put onto with a really great PA system and like food is really good. And the coffee\u0026#39;s great. And yeah, these, the, after so afterwards, social hours, like a cannot miss type of thing. We could have gone into that and that would have probably been much more interesting pre COVID because I felt like you did see that a lot across community events as you were.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:57] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I think maybe we have to reassess what [00:13:00] better means. I\u0026#39;m just here to learn. I\u0026#39;m here to make connections and I want a better experience around that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:05] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I don\u0026#39;t necessarily need this, high product high highly produced. Things. And I think that\u0026#39;s totally fine too. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:15] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it would also be nice if we had more conferences too. Yeah, which is more of a focus on people sharing knowledge, which I think some of this has been highlighted that it\u0026#39;s a popularity contest when you talk about speakers, getting the big names.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:27] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And the bigger names drawing bigger crowds to keep that up. But if we go back to the content and have high quality content, hopefully maybe we\u0026#39;ll see more of those. Yeah. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:39] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I totally agree. I think we are just about out of time here for our after polls. But Wesley, this was fun getting together with you and chatting with Mo and Matty.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:50] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e It is always fun to have them around and learn. And I don\u0026#39;t know, it\u0026#39;s definitely been a nice conversation just to revisit some things around the community. I know, like I\u0026#39;ve [00:14:00] mentioned, I haven\u0026#39;t been as involved. I miss it, but also I don\u0026#39;t miss, like some aspects of it, but I also definitely miss it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:07] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Other aspects too. So I\u0026#39;m hoping that there\u0026#39;s like a shift towards something new that draws me in. I\u0026#39;m sure there will be, there\u0026#39;s ways that you can get people off the couch or, change their plans from doing something boring to going and meeting with some people.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:25] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e But I think we\u0026#39;re going to have to get creative about it. And I\u0026#39;m looking forward to seeing what comes from some of the community events that are out there, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:33] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e wise words, good thoughts, good hopes. And I think that concludes our after post after pulse, and hopefully we\u0026#39;ll have PJ and Mary on our next show.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:44] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you for listening and we will see you all next time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"","date_published":"2024-08-23T10:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/2309af78-db10-4156-858e-ea37ee3fabba.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":45126969,"duration_in_seconds":1128}]},{"id":"0d467b58-4799-4f1b-9c29-33bc4eb8dbe8","title":"Community Conferences - What to know? (Ep 90)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/90-community-conferences","content_text":"Over the past few years, we’ve seen conferences ebb and flow. Some community-run conferences have evolved into new things, new ones have sprouted up while other annual favorites have sadly gone extinct. What goes into a community-led conference? How does someone get involved? Let’s take a look!\n\n1. The Role of Community Conferences in DevRel:\nJason Hand introduces the topic, highlighting the evolution of community conferences over the years. While some conferences have grown, others have disappeared, leaving the question of what sustains such events.\nWesley Faulkner discusses the importance of understanding the origins and logistics behind community conferences, including the passion and effort required to make them happen.\n\n2. Guests’ Journeys into Organizing Community Events:\nMatty Stratton:\nStarted organizing DevOpsDays Chicago after realizing the need for a local event in his area. His motivation was to be involved in something he cared about by taking the lead in creating it.\nShared how his experience organizing swing dance events shaped his community involvement philosophy: organizing allows him to stay engaged and create meaningful connections.\nMo McElaney:\nEntered tech after a career switch during the 2009 recession. She started organizing events through a nonprofit teaching women to code, which opened doors to organizing Ruby conferences and others.\nHer lack of experience in tech initially became a motivator for organizing conferences, as it allowed her to connect with experts and learn from them.\n\n3. Why Organizers Keep Coming Back:\nMo McElaney: Community conferences create meaningful connections and friendships. They are also a way to spot industry trends by seeing what topics speakers submit for presentations.\nMatty Stratton:\nHighlighted the emotional rewards of helping others and witnessing life-changing moments for attendees, such as finding jobs or negotiating better salaries through transparent discussions at events like DevOpsDays.\nShared the struggles of stepping back from organizing long-running events due to the personal attachment and friendships developed over the years.\n\n4. Impact of COVID-19 on Community Conferences:\nMatty Stratton and Mo McElaney agree that COVID-19 significantly disrupted the conference landscape:\nMany community conferences either downsized, paused, or failed to recover due to funding challenges.\nThe corporate sponsorship landscape has shifted, prioritizing events with high ROI and attendee numbers over smaller, more impactful community-led events.\nWesley Faulkner observes that increased workloads and layoffs post-COVID have further limited individuals’ capacity to attend or organize events.\n\n5. Challenges in Organizing Community Conferences:\nFunding:\nConferences often struggle to secure sponsorships, especially in today’s economic climate.\nCorporate funding focuses on large-scale events, leaving smaller, localized conferences underfunded.\nVolunteer Management:\nOrganizers face difficulties when volunteers fail to deliver on their commitments. Unlike employees, volunteers can’t be held accountable in the same way.\nMentoring and transitioning leadership roles is often overlooked, leading to burnout or gaps when organizers step away.\nChanging Needs and Expectations:\nConferences that fail to adapt post-COVID may struggle to thrive. The shift towards virtual and hybrid formats requires innovation to stay relevant.\n\n6. Refactoring the Community Conference Model:\nMatty Stratton and Jason Hand propose the need for reimagining how conferences operate:\nSmaller, localized events can reduce costs and environmental impact while fostering deeper connections.\nEvents like outdoor retreats (e.g., DevOpsDays Rockies incorporating the natural setting of Colorado) demonstrate creative ways to bring people together.\nMo McElaney emphasizes the importance of paying speakers and organizers for their work, advocating for a more sustainable model that values the labor involved in organizing community events.\n\nKey Takeaways:\n\nCommunity Conferences Have Evolved:\nPost-COVID, conferences face new challenges, including funding limitations, organizer burnout, and changing attendee expectations.\nThe importance of maintaining the participatory, community-driven spirit remains central to their success.\n\nInnovative Models Are Needed:\nSmaller, more targeted events or creative formats like retreats could address the current barriers to large-scale conferences.\nOrganizers need to adapt to funding realities by prioritizing impactful, cost-effective event models.\n\nSustainability and Support Are Crucial:\nPaying organizers and speakers is essential to sustaining long-term involvement in community conference planning.\nMentorship and succession planning are critical to ensuring the continuity of events and avoiding burnout.\n\nAdvice for Aspiring Conference Organizers:\nClarify Your Capacity:\nBe upfront about your time, skills, and communication preferences to set realistic expectations for yourself and the organizing team.\nUnderstand the Commitment:\nAsk detailed questions about the role’s expectations and assess whether it aligns with your availability.\nKnow Your Motivation:\nReflect on why you want to organize events. Your passion for the community will help you persevere during challenging moments.\n\nClosing Thoughts:\nCommunity conferences are evolving but remain a vital part of the DevRel ecosystem.\nCollaboration, innovation, and sustainability will ensure these events continue to thrive in the changing landscape.\n\nFinal Quote:\n“There’s nothing you can do that can’t be done.” – John Lennon\n\nKeywords:\nCommunity Conferences\nDevRel (Developer Relations)\nOrganizing Events\nPost-COVID Challenges\nFunding\nVolunteers\nLeadership\nSponsorship\nCommunity Engagement\nHybrid Events\nLocal Events\nCompensation\nEvent Sustainability\nSpeaker Fees\nCommunity Building\nMentorship\nInnovation\nCorporate Sponsorship\nEmerging Trends\nDevOpsDays\nPyCon US\nRethinking Conference Models\n\nTranscript\n\n[00:00:00] Jason Hand: Over the past few years, we've seen conferences ebb and flow. Some community run conferences have evolved into new things. New ones have sprouted up, while other annual favorites have sadly gone extinct. What goes into community led conferences, and how does someone get involved? Let's take a look.\n\n[00:00:20] Weslefy Faulkner: Conferences are such a big part of many DevRel programs. But where do they come from? Who puts them together and what really happens behind the scenes? We've gathered some of DevRel's event organizers who can help us out. Mo and Maddy, could you introduce yourself, starting with Mo? \n\n[00:00:38] Mo McElaney: Hello! Thank you for having me.\n\n[00:00:40] Mo McElaney: My name is Mo McElhaney. I work for IBM, leading the strategy of our open source AI developer programs in IBM Research. I ran a nonprofit teaching women to code from 2012 to 2018. I've spoken at conferences around the world.\n\n[00:00:59] Mo McElaney: And I've [00:01:00] organized a bunch of different conferences over the years. Burlington Ruby, UX Burlington, Vermont Code Camp, Offline Camp, Abstractions Conf in Pittsburgh. And currently I'm on the contact committee for PyCon US and Ray Summit. And I'm on the board of the Vermont Technology Alliance. \n\n[00:01:20] Matty Stratton: Great.\n\n[00:01:20] Matty Stratton: I'm Matty. I currently run developer relations and growth for a company called Aiven. And I also have my own DevOps podcast, Arrested DevOps, on the topic of community conferences. I've spent my time as a conference speaker at all sorts of community events all over the world.\n\n[00:01:36] Matty Stratton: I was the founder of DevOps Day Chicago, when that started. I've been a co-chair of the global team for DevOps days worldwide, and currently in an advisory role with that. I also help out with the content track for all day DevOps, and there's probably a bunch of other community related conferences that I'm forgetting about that I've helped out at some point over the years.\n\n[00:01:58] Matty Stratton: And so if I didn't name your [00:02:00] event and I helped you I apologize, hit me on Twitter and yell at me. Excited to be back on Community Pulse. \n\n[00:02:08] Weslefy Faulkner: You really have someone who loves the community when they can't remember all the things that they've done to help run conferences and help the community get together and.\n\n[00:02:18] Weslefy Faulkner: Speaking to passion and thinking about why you're doing this. What is your specific answer? Why, what led you to organize conferences to start with you, Maddie? \n\n[00:02:27] Matty Stratton: It's funny. And if I want to be a little introspective and honest, it's the same thing that I think brings me to organize. Anything is one of the ways that you can make sure you're involved in something is to run it.\n\n[00:02:41] Matty Stratton: And I look back over the time and I spent years running a community around swing dancing here in Chicago. This is not a good life lesson or a good way to live your life. So I don't recommend it.\n\n[00:02:52] Matty Stratton: But really the first community event that I. Got involved in organizing was DevOps days, Chicago, and it came from [00:03:00] being interested in DevOps days, having wanted to go to one and not having had the chance and saying, Hey, maybe we should have one in Chicago reached out to the global team, and they said, Oh last year, some people were interested.\n\n[00:03:12] Matty Stratton: I can put you in touch with them. Maybe y'all can figure it out where we are now. 10 plus years later after that, a fateful little meeting that we had in the second floor walkup consulting company thing. So it's interesting, and hear what most is what leads you to originally organize a conference and what keeps you doing it, or maybe two different questions and maybe we come back to that second one in a minute.\n\n[00:03:31] Matty Stratton: 'cause the answers are \n\n[00:03:32] Weslefy Faulkner: Yes. I would love that answer. And I think it also has. You don't have to be an expert in something before you start trying to organize around it, which is great. So Mo, what is your story? What got you involved? \n\n[00:03:44] Mo McElaney: That is a very good segue into my answer to that question because I'm a mid career switch into tech.\n\n[00:03:51] Mo McElaney: I coded before I had a full time job in tech, but I got laid off in 2009 when the recession in the United States happened. [00:04:00] And I saw all my friends who worked in software, whether they got laid off or not, they still were making money. So I was like, Oh, I need to really get into tech.\n\n[00:04:09] Mo McElaney: And so I started going to meetups. I was teaching myself to code for real. And then I started a nonprofit teaching women to code. And in doing that work, as anyone who's listening or anyone on the show knows, once you start organizing something, everyone wants you to help them with the thing that they're organizing.\n\n[00:04:30] Mo McElaney: And so because of running that tech community, Meetup. I got invited to organize our local Ruby conference because we were teaching a Ruby class and it just was a perfect synchrony. And then, in doing that work, I got invited to organize another conference and it was a way for me to learn from the best.\n\n[00:04:49] Mo McElaney: In the industry, because when you get involved with a conference, you're inviting people to come and speak who are really experienced or really interesting and have an interesting way of teaching a [00:05:00] concept. And my inexperience is what led me to organizing conferences. \n\n[00:05:06] Jason Hand: I feel like that's definitely similar to my experience and Wesley, I think, maybe you're also the same, but.\n\n[00:05:12] Jason Hand: To Matty's story, like mine's almost identical with DevOps days. I saw, I think, I don't know which DevOps days it might've been. Chicago was one of my, it was either Minneapolis or Chicago was one of the first ones I went to. And I was like, Oh, this is pretty rad. We need something like this in Denver.\n\n[00:05:26] Jason Hand: And it just is like filling a gap, filling a need of what was already a meetup going on in the area. And I was, just Oh we deserve something like this. Like the Denver area, the front range actually was what it was, when I was really focused on, because one of the tenants of DevOps days is to be very, ultra inclusive.\n\n[00:05:47] Jason Hand: And I felt if we called it DevOps days, Denver, some of the folks in Boulder. 30 minutes away, they may not come. It's not going to feel like it's one of their things. So we decided to call it DevOps stays Rockies, which meant to like [00:06:00] really, including the whole front range of, from Colorado Springs, all the way up to Fort Collins.\n\n[00:06:05] Jason Hand: I got yelled at for calling it Rockies, which is true because like we wanted it to be Denver, but. I felt like I got a pass on it because it was inclusive, in the Rockies, at least to the culture out here. Denver and Boulder are two different people or two different things.\n\n[00:06:18] Jason Hand: And you're just not going to get a lot of cross collaboration. So anyway, let's pivot a little bit on what Maddie was talking about. There's one thing about starting the conferences. It's something else to keep you coming back and doing it year after year or whatever the frequency is.\n\n[00:06:33] Jason Hand: I'm wondering if we can start with maybe Mo on you with this one. Is there anything that sort of keeps you returning back to these? Or is there something that inspires you to either grow it or maintain it? What are your thoughts around that? \n\n[00:06:48] Mo McElaney: Community conferences are the best.\n\n[00:06:51] Mo McElaney: I've made the best of friends at community conferences that I've attended. The organizers are always just really passionate about the community and it's [00:07:00] just always a wonderful experience. Sometimes it's really stressful because at a community conference, we're going to talk about the hardest thing about running community conferences, I think, but funding is always an issue.\n\n[00:07:09] Mo McElaney: So it's really stressful trying to figure out how you're going to. Have the money that you need to do the things you want to do and all that. And the other cool thing, as a developer advocate, it's a really easy way to see trends in the industry. If you're involved with the content for conferences, you're seeing what developers are interested in because you're seeing what they're submitting to the conference.\n\n[00:07:29] Mo McElaney: And so you get the inside. Track on what people want to see and what they want to be learning and what they want to brag about. \n\n[00:07:37] Jason Hand:Very true. And Matty, you're still on, are you still involved with DevOps Days Chicago or?\n\n[00:07:41] Matty Stratton: And that's a story about that. It has to do with actually connecting pretty well to what keeps you coming back. And one of the other parts is what makes it hard to not come back. What makes it hard to stop because sometimes you need to stop. But to answer your question shortly.\n\n[00:07:55] Matty Stratton: So this year is 25. We're not doing one for 2024. So the next DevOps day, Chicago [00:08:00] will be in March of 2025, a single day event, a new thing. I am an advisor. But they have asked me to be the emcee. So that part keeps happening, but it's about the people, but in two different ways.\n\n[00:08:13] Matty Stratton: So it's the, first of all, about sort of the participants and one of the reasons I use the word participant really intentionally there. So one of the things for the community event that is DevOps day Chicago, that we believe really strongly in Is that everybody there, nobody's badge says speaker or sponsor, whatever they all say, participant, because everybody is there to participate together and I feel really strongly that community events tend to be very participatory, you don't go there to be spoken at, maybe some people do, you do you man, that's not the intent.\n\n[00:08:44] Matty Stratton: But even as an organizer, it's like you're participating in it, you're part of it, and you see what everybody gets out of it, right? It's the thing of like, how many times over the years I will encounter folks at other events, [00:09:00] on LinkedIn, on socials, on whatever, someone comes on and they talk about how They came to DevOps Day Chicago, and that's what got them into the job that they have.\n\n[00:09:09] Matty Stratton: Things happen at these events that change people's lives. We think about things like TalkPay, which is a very popular thing at a lot of community events where people are very transparent about their compensation. And it literally gets people, when they know about people that have found better jobs, that have gotten paid better, that have done those things, you're like, how can you not have this keep going?\n\n[00:09:29] Matty Stratton: And from the personal. I hesitate to say selfish, part of that is, that's a little selfish too, cause I'm like, I feel awesome. And I'm like, cool. I was helpful and helped your life. My co organizers it's there. And, I know we're going to talk about how COVID changed everything, but I remember our first in person DevOps stage, Chicago being up on stage.\n\n[00:09:47] Matty Stratton: And I was just like in tears because I missed these people, even though we had done an event together, but even that event that was in person, Didn't get together the way that we used to, [00:10:00] and it was, I was like, these were folks that throughout the year, cause it takes a year to run this event, event would come off and we'd be like, all right, we're going to give ourselves like six weeks.\n\n[00:10:06] Matty Stratton: Everybody go back and get away from this for a minute. And we got to start again. And, you get together and we all go and order pizza to Margaret's house to review the talks. And this is the place we would go. And, you think about stories about drinking a bunch of beer at an elephant in castle and saying, Hey, Jerry, can I have money to buy a yak costume and.\n\n[00:10:24] Matty Stratton: Now we have one, it's like those types of things. And you have new people come in and out every year, but you have this set of folks and they're some of your greatest friends and you like to make things with them, but it's also a hell of a lot of work.\n\n[00:10:39] Weslefy Faulkner: Yeah. Conferences are a lot of work and I think everything that you mentioned is a form of pay or. Recompense for putting in that effort. And I know we, you mentioned the COVID during COVID. I remember us as a group and just the Royal us, talking about okay, so what are we [00:11:00] doing now?\n\n[00:11:00] Weslefy Faulkner: And then let's do some efficiencies of a virtual conference. Let's do more webinars. Let's write more blog posts, do more content. These things were in place of some of the ways that. We did some of that stuff at conferences. And then we're then after that, or during that period, we're also saying when will conferences come back?\n\n[00:11:19] Weslefy Faulkner: And then people will start meeting up again. And then the conversation shifted to, are they the same and what are we going to keep doing that we did during the lockdowns conferences do have. Some meaning, and there's only things you can do at conferences.\n\n[00:11:33] Weslefy Faulkner: So they're not good at everything, but they're good at some really great things that can't be replaced. My question is in this period of time where it seems like things have equalized. When you look now, do you look before COVID, would you say that conferences are at the same level? Have they increased?\n\n[00:11:52] Weslefy Faulkner: Have they decreased? Where are we now in terms of conferences as in before COVID after COVID Are things better and in terms [00:12:00] of the amount of events, are we seeing more people having more conferences, or are we seeing just less overall conferences, but better quality? What would you say?\n\n[00:12:08] Weslefy Faulkner: Let's start with you, Matty. \n\n[00:12:09] Matty Stratton: It's, haha y'all know how much I hate root cause and there's a lot of contributing factors to the landscape of community conferences today. But there is some definite causation because one of the things that was clear from the year or two of massive slowdown is for a lot of it and not necessarily what people want, but what organizations are willing to fund.\n\n[00:12:38] Matty Stratton: So it's a lot of, if what you get out of it is just, how much more can you learn in different ways? I think that, in my opinion, the bigger impact to what I would say is a decline in community led conferences. And it's a shame because this is not what I would have predicted and what I was hoping was going to come out of [00:13:00] COVID.\n\n[00:13:00] Matty Stratton: I thought it was going to be the flip. Yeah. Because of the costs and but I think it's less about maybe we could say that a contributing factor to the current economy is related to COVID so therefore it's COVID but in today's economy, the dollars and the ducats are harder to get and We also find a lot of folks in their community events are still wanting to run events in the playbook that they ran pre COVID when money was cheap and you could get lots of sponsor dollars and we're used to doing things in a certain way.\n\n[00:13:35] Matty Stratton: Anyway, I want to bring it back to the change that has happened, but I made a comment where I said this is not what I was hoping and If you look, we talked about this topic slightly on arrested DevOps in the retrospective of Chicago 2020. And I'll give you a link for the show notes.\n\n[00:13:49] Matty Stratton: And at the time, one of the ways I was thinking when I was looking at what was happening was with conferences starting to decline through COVID. My prediction. And maybe it was what I wanted to [00:14:00] happen was that we would see a rise in community events because community events are cheaper to do and to attend and thinking about, these big shows that cost bajillions of dollars remember at this time, too, we were seeing O'Reilly shutting down their way of funding that velocity going away all these big events and I was like, here we go community events.\n\n[00:14:22] Matty Stratton: And, maybe we missed it as community events to be able to refactor how to be able to optimize for the fact that they were, that community events tend to be local. They tend to be regional. Instead of having to try to do this scenario, because I think when the other thing in the decline besides the cost is that also people are trying to think about sustainability, right?\n\n[00:14:44] Matty Stratton: And they're like, Hey, maybe I don't want to be, maybe we shouldn't all. Be flying from the whole world to San Diego or whatever for this one big event. Whereas if we could have smaller bits and pieces that exist, so all these things have multiple contributing factors. [00:15:00] Anyway, do I see the thing that there's been a decline in community led conferences since covid?\n\n[00:15:05] Matty Stratton: I think yes, because of COVID, I don't know, but if that's the point in time, we are saying there absolutely has been, and I will, I can speak specifically from DevOps days. And I would love to hear what Mo and the rest of you do for the other events that you do. We have seen the number. It's very interesting because we look at how many DevOps days happen every year.\n\n[00:15:25] Matty Stratton: And that number like Was this massive spike in 2019? It was huge. And then you're like, Oh, and then they were like, none. But then you look at it and you're like, cool. Look at devopsdates. org and you see all these cities are having it. And as a core member, I can tell you, and you know how many of them end up getting canceled and don't actually happen.\n\n[00:15:43] Matty Stratton: How many? A lot. That's the scientific rational number of it is a lot or continually get postponed because, Oh, we weren't able to make our funding. We weren't able to do that. We have to cancel it. And so we're not back. And I don't know that we will be without [00:16:00] changing.\n\n[00:16:00] Matty Stratton: How we reason about these in kind of the new world. It sounds like the community run conferences need a collective PR department \n\n[00:16:07] Weslefy Faulkner: to help with getting the word out. \n\n[00:16:08] Matty Stratton: Don't think it's we need to realize that you don't, the money is not there.\n\n[00:16:14] Matty Stratton: So you don't, Maybe you have to run the event in a different way. You're used to being able to, and again, I'll tell you that like Chicago we always make a lot of money on our, I don't say we make a lot of money. We don't profit, but we get tons of sponsors. Our event is very expensive. DevUpstate Chicago costs over a quarter million dollars to run, do you need to spend that much money to run a DevOps space? You absolutely do not, but a lot of events are used to doing that and you're just like, yo we have to have 600 people cause we've always had 600 people and we have to have all of this cause we've always had it. And you're like, do you?\n\n[00:16:47] Matty Stratton: And that's the thing we miss. In Covid time was the chance to refactor and so why also most virtual events failed. ~~Sorry, I swear to God I'm gonna stop talking. ~~\n\n[00:16:54] Weslefy Faulkner: ~~So Mo, ~~are you seeing what Maddie's seeing? And also are you in favor of a refactor?\n\n[00:16:58] Weslefy Faulkner: What do you think? [00:17:00] \n\n[00:17:00] Mo McElaney: I definitely am seeing exactly what Maddie's seeing. And I think it's also connected to meetups. I haven't seen meetups return to what they were. Anecdotally for me, a lot of the main organizers of my favorite communities either left DevRel or have been laid off and have been having job insecurity.\n\n[00:17:24] Mo McElaney: I think that's a widespread industry thing. It's been tough out there. And so it, my impression is that there isn't the same bandwidth for people to do the organizing. And maybe we didn't do a good enough job of raising up the next generation of organizers. I think that's another issue that is just a chronic thing in communities is having that mentorship where you're raising up the next people to come up behind you when you inevitably, either burnout.\n\n[00:17:55] Mo McElaney: Hopefully you don't burn out, but if you burn out, a lot of community organizers burn out [00:18:00] eventually. Or you just, your life changes and you can't do as much as you were doing before. And who are these people that are going to come up behind us to organize these things? And how do we make it a good experience for them so that they get what they need to take it over?\n\n[00:18:15] Mo McElaney: I also think that, yeah, I agree funding hasn't come back. It's tough to get funding. I agree with Maddie. I thought community conferences were going to come back strong after COVID, but it seems like the corporate ones are the ones that suck up all the funding and then there's nothing left.\n\n[00:18:30] Mo McElaney: And I feel like from my perspective, coming from a tech giant people want to fund the things that are going to have a big art, like ROI and they're, they want big numbers. And they're not looking at like the quality, but community events are just like such a different experience.\n\n[00:18:50] Mo McElaney: And you can have such a wider impact if you are investing in a whole bunch of communities like dev ops days or pi data, or all the [00:19:00] pi ladies, all these communities that have chapters all around the world. If you could invest in those, you're having smaller events, but the overall numbers are high, but I feel like, from what I've seen in the corporate trending around this, people want to see thousands of heads that are viewing your content and not necessarily just like a hundred in one event.\n\n[00:19:25] Mo McElaney: Even though the sponsorship level would be way cheaper than. Arguably the impact would be higher because you're actually getting a more authentic interaction with a smaller group of people and actually getting them playing with things. \n\n[00:19:40] Mo McElaney: Maybe people see your logo, but they're not actually doing anything because they're running around to the next session. \n\n[00:19:46] Weslefy Faulkner: Yeah. Those are really good points. I also think that, during the pandemic COVID period, productivity went to all time highs. And then after the rates [00:20:00] got increased, layoffs also happened that mass.\n\n[00:20:03] Weslefy Faulkner: And so now someone who's already working at their peak, and then on top of that, now they are taking on the work of their coworkers who are no longer at the company. Maybe they don't have the time to go to conferences as much. Maybe their routine has changed so that it feels like it's a little extra.\n\n[00:20:18] Weslefy Faulkner: But Jason, you have the next question. \n\n[00:20:20] Matty Stratton: Oh I just had one, there was one thing, a point Mo made about why places don't sponsor the community events and they want to get the thousand and one other thing that I've observed and I could be wrong. Community events tend to be not about.\n\n[00:20:34] Matty Stratton: Products and specific technologies. They tend to be things like PyCon or DevOps days or whatever, which means as a marketer, I don't understand the persona as clearly because we've had this conversation about why, it seems like nothing, no shade against KubeCon, but people want to spend way much more money sponsoring KubeCon than DevOps days.\n\n[00:20:53] Matty Stratton: And I've had organizers say to me like, Oh, it's because there's so many more people. And I said, no, because they know what they're there to buy. [00:21:00] But someone who comes to an event about DevOps. I don't understand who that is. I don't know if it's my target market or whatever. \n\n[00:21:07] Matty Stratton: And it's about an awareness thing. So one was we would have it at DevOps days where you would get to a fun thing where. There were events. I remember chef did this in one year where they were like, we're going to sponsor every single DevOps day. So it's really clear that we care about the community.\n\n[00:21:20] Matty Stratton: And I believe that they did and whatnot. But one of my favorite things that was interesting was for a time at monitor Rama. You didn't have, if you were in a certain part of the industry, you had no choice, but to sponsor monitor Rama, because if you didn't people wondered what was wrong, so if you were like in the monitoring space and suddenly you weren't sponsoring, basically what that said was we are struggling.\n\n[00:21:45] Matty Stratton: And this, but now it's, there's much more needing to connect like most to that ROI and to be able to say this is going to actually convert and that the long tail is because everybody when the. Beans start getting [00:22:00] counted and the economy shrinks down it, which it shouldn't because everybody is making lots of money, but whatever.\n\n[00:22:07] Matty Stratton: It's, it, it's you, I've said this about Deverell about when the economy gets tough, we have to do things that require less imagination to show value. And the same thing, your sponsorship has to require less imagination. It has to be a shorter line between sponsor dollars. And money, right?\n\n[00:22:25] Matty Stratton: That's just, that's where the economy is right now. But you can do those things. Anyway, you had a question. \n\n[00:22:31] Jason Hand: Yeah. You bring up a good point there, Maddie, because I feel like it wasn't just Monitorama. That's an excellent example. I think DevOpsDays was a good example of that too. Like a lot of companies, their marketing teams set aside a budget.\n\n[00:22:42] Jason Hand: The company needed to be seen as a good steward of the community as just a player in the DevOps space.\n\n[00:22:49] Jason Hand: Sometimes I think that maybe DevOps in general as a term or as a movement or whatever, like we, a lot of folks just have this feeling of what we solved for a lot of those problems. And so now [00:23:00] there's, we just don't have the need to like be there and be involved in those conversations because CICD has already been solved and the incident management has been solved.\n\n[00:23:08] Jason Hand: And like just a lot of the things that we were talking about we still talk about them, but in different ways. And so it's definitely that the budgeting has tightened up a lot. And I know for myself, like I'm much less willing to spend personal time outside of my like nine to five work to like work on or attend things, in the evening or on the weekends or stuff.\n\n[00:23:30] Jason Hand: I'm just not as interested. And some of that's just maybe age, I'm just grown older and I just rather use my personal time on other things. Some of it, I feel like I'm old and in the way sometimes. And maybe there's like a new crop of people who have a lot more creativity and ideas and I should just step out.\n\n[00:23:43] Jason Hand: I get aggravated when people older than me don't do that and I don't want to be that way. Also, a lot of the events have turned sadly into DevRel talking to DevRel. And that bothers me a little bit too. And I don't know what the solution is because, if you look at the [00:24:00] CFPs, that's just what we're getting submissions from.\n\n[00:24:02] Jason Hand: That is, that's what a bulk of the submissions are to DevRel. That's their job. It's my job to go and be in communities and talk and stuff, but I don't want to be talking to only other, I don't want it to be a room full of just You know, us, like I want to be talking to engineers and other folks too and learning from them.\n\n[00:24:19] Jason Hand: I think the refactoring stuff or the re-imagining of a lot of these events is underway in a lot of places. I can tell you about the DevOps days, Rocky's folks, a lot of them I haven't really been directly involved with this, but I'm going to start participating is they've taken what used to be like meetups and things like that.\n\n[00:24:35] Jason Hand: And now they go off into the woods, into the mountains and get together and connect their star links and spend a few days. Working, away from offices, but together with a smaller group of people. I like that idea. I haven't yet gone. I'm going to hopefully go to the next one.\n\n[00:24:50] Jason Hand: I think that's later this month. I'll be sharing a link to that in my checkouts later, but it's I think a really creative way. Instead of trying to find, a conference room [00:25:00] or some office that you can borrow or rent or something.\n\n[00:25:04] Jason Hand: And trying to get, people still had to pay for a meetup. com, which isn't cheap. So you had to get sponsorship money. And a lot of that is just people don't want to do that anymore. And so I think there is this way there's like new, I, a new movement. I don't know if movement's quite the word, but I like that I'm seeing some creative ways of getting folks together and at least, filling that void of I still miss you all.\n\n[00:25:26] Jason Hand: I still want to talk, but I don't really want to do it the way we used to do it. So anyway, those are just my thoughts around that, but let's pivot a little bit. \n\n[00:25:32] Mo McElaney: Just want to mention too, that like for me, my experience in organizing events. Most of it was unpaid labor. The large majority of it was unpaid labor.\n\n[00:25:44] Mo McElaney: And I was able to do that before I had kids. And because I was career switching and I felt like I had to to get where I wanted to go. And I just think that people should get paid to do this work. [00:26:00] Either, if maybe you're in DevRel and it's part of your job, but, you That wasn't a common thing that I've seen in community conferences.\n\n[00:26:08] Mo McElaney: And maybe people are less willing to do community conferences if they're not going to get paid for the labor. \n\n[00:26:14] Matty Stratton: That is really interesting because first of all, I'm actually a big believer in paying speakers. Not that Oh my God, look at my ice cold take that speakers should be paid.\n\n[00:26:23] Matty Stratton: But it's interesting because it's actually a very important rule. So theoretically DevOps days and organizers are not paid. Which again, goes back to that. Maybe we need to rethink some things because this happens often in DevOps and because DevOps has been around since 2009.\n\n[00:26:39] Matty Stratton: So a lot of the quote unquote rules and guidelines of this global event. They're not, they shouldn't be sacred with things like that. Cause the world changes in certain ways. And I understand like the reason the intent for a lot of times is you don't want these to be for profit things, but also people who work for a non for profit get paid, so it's a way to think about it, but you're right, because you have this [00:27:00] unpaid labor and it gets into the people who have the ability to do that. Money is not the thing that's annoying about all of this is the conferences that have the money to pay the people and do the things don't do it, or they do because people work there.\n\n[00:27:13] Matty Stratton: And unfortunately, community events, we try to be cheap and try inexpensive and accessible and all these things. If you could find some way to reward this, maybe you do that instead of having a big fancy party or. Heaven forbid a yak costume. No, you always have to have money for the costume and actually most importantly to have money for the cleaning of the yak costume.\n\n[00:27:32] Matty Stratton: Do not forget that when you pick your mascots. You got to set aside a budget for that. \n\n[00:27:39] Jason Hand: So it feels like we're talking a lot. We're covering several of the difficult areas of running these conferences. I'm wondering, and it also feels like we can bucket it into like pre COVID and post COVID too, but I'm wondering what other things are there that are difficult?\n\n[00:27:56] Jason Hand: Those are things to consider when putting on a conference or trying to maintain a [00:28:00] conference over 10 years like some of the ones out there are longer I don't know, Maddie, start with you, maybe on this one. And what are your thoughts? \n\n[00:28:06] Matty Stratton: One of the big challenges with an event like this and doing a thing. And I, it's going to sound maybe a little crass if you can't fire someone who's volunteering for performance. And this is often with many things people want to do. So again, give the, if you go back to the example of when we wanted to kick off the first DevOps day, Chicago, 15 people came to that meeting of the 15 people, three of us are still now, first of all, we're the three people that's crazy that we're still doing it, but how many fall in, how many people at anything like this, you'd see an open source, everything.\n\n[00:28:36] Matty Stratton: Oh yeah. I want to help with this. I'm like, I need someone to help. And I'll get this big influx of a dozen people like, we'll help work on the website. And then it doesn't happen. So one of the challenges though, is because especially you're trying to create, like organizing a conference is hard.\n\n[00:28:50] Matty Stratton: It has a lot of moving parts. People have different responsibilities. And if someone doesn't do what they're supposed to do or what they agreed to do, you really don't [00:29:00] have a lot of recourse. Because they're volunteering and you can't really, you could yell at them, but you feel like a jerk because someone's volunteering, they're doing their time, and everything like that.\n\n[00:29:10] Matty Stratton: And some of it you can't really even, and then sometimes you're like I can't even get rid of you because who else is going to do it, even though you're not. So that's one challenge of organizing. And the other part is just everybody has different ability to do what they want to do.\n\n[00:29:23] Matty Stratton: Like in terms of how much they commit, and it is probably not uncommon. I bet you, if you look at almost any community conference event, there are probably a handful of people that you feel like, if you ask everybody organizing team, they're like, yep, you know what? Jason and Wesley, they don't do crap and Mo does everything.\n\n[00:29:42] Matty Stratton: And, it's again, that I think is one of the big challenges of that is how do you balance that? \n\n[00:29:48] Mo McElaney: I think that managing the volunteers is the hardest. Aside from money obviously is always a stressor and, making sure you have enough to do what you want to do, but [00:30:00] managing the volunteers and also, mentoring people to take over and handing things off and being okay with them not being done the way you would want them done necessarily.\n\n[00:30:11] Mo McElaney: I think that's the hardest part. And that is crucial to making sure your community lives on past you. And yeah, it's a difficult part. I've done it well in the past. I've done it poorly in the past with events that I've done. And so I don't have a great answer, but that's what I think is the hardest.\n\n[00:30:33] Weslefy Faulkner: All right. We're good. We're coming up on the end of this, but I want to try to bring it on as actual advice for people who are listening to this that are just considering getting into this field of volunteering.\n\n[00:30:48] Weslefy Faulkner: What advice would you give them to help them make the determination if they should or should not? \n\n[00:30:53] Mo McElaney: I think that you should go in \n\n[00:30:54] Weslefy Faulkner: this? \n\n[00:30:55] Mo McElaney: Sorry. I think that you should go into it being really clear about [00:31:00] your capacity and what you have time for and the best way to communicate with you.\n\n[00:31:06] Mo McElaney: Because that will really help the organizer with leveraging you in the best way and. And then it also sets both of you up for success, because if the organizer knows what you're there to do and why you're there and, what you're not able to do, then they're not wasting your time, assigning you things and then you don't get them done and then everyone is frustrated and, so\n\n[00:31:34] Matty Stratton: I just want to double down on that. I want to agree. And I think you need to, when you're getting involved, be not only very clear about what you can do, but ask those questions if you're going to join an organizing event or something like that and say, realistically, what is the commitment you expect out of me?\n\n[00:31:51] Matty Stratton: What is, what, how, what do you need and what does that mean? And then sit down. And assume that it's twice that and say, does that fit [00:32:00] within your bandwidth to be able to do that because things are going to happen. Sit down and take a long, hard look at yourself and say, why do I want to do this?\n\n[00:32:08] Matty Stratton: Because there's going to be times that it's going to be super duper hard and you need to know that the reason that you're doing it is enough to pull you through the days that suck, so just know that. \n\n[00:32:18] Jason Hand: Awesome. As Wesley pointed out, we're getting towards the end of our time here.\n\n[00:32:21] Jason Hand: So I want to thank both of you for joining us. I think that community events are still out there. I wouldn't, I don't know if I feel to have the confidence to say they're thriving, but I feel like they're evolving. I know that DevOpsDays Rockies is much, much smaller this year. I'm a little bit excited about that for some reason.\n\n[00:32:38] Jason Hand: I think it's going to be, I don't know, maybe I just like change as long as it's a good change. I think it's healthy. They're holding it at a brewery this year. I'm just, I'm optimistic, to see how things are going to change a little bit here.\n\n[00:33:43] Jason Hand: Let's pivot away into our checkouts. As most of those of you've been listening to the show forever, we spend the last 10 minutes or so just going around the room and letting our guests and whoever's hosting share some of the different things that they are thinking about, reading about, watching, talking about just [00:34:00] anything that's on top of your mind.\n\n[00:34:00] Jason Hand: Moe, I guess if you are Ready? Let's maybe start with you and then go to Maddie from there and then Wesley, and then I can wrap things up. So what do you got for checkouts? \n\n[00:34:08] Mo McElaney: Okay. So I am a contributor to the contributor covenant and we are working on version three of that code of conduct.\n\n[00:34:18] Mo McElaney: So if you want to get involved in version three of this, a big part of it is we want it to be more transferable to in person events. not just open source projects. Relevant to this conversation. I also just this past Monday presented at PI data Vermont on cognitive bias and machine learning.\n\n[00:34:40] Mo McElaney: So if you are interested in that, you can check out the video it's coming out soon. I'm also giving that talk at AI for the rest of us in London this fall. If you're around there or thinking about going to that, stop by and say hello. And yeah, just non tech related. I'm also a Master [00:35:00] Gardener intern out of the University of Vermont.\n\n[00:35:04] Mo McElaney: So if you have garden questions, you can go to the Ask a Master Gardener hotline. You probably have an extension locally to you if you're in the U S. But yeah, so I hope if you are in a part of the world where gardening is possible, that your garden is lovely. \n\n[00:35:22] Matty Stratton: You're a master gardener.\n\n[00:35:23] Matty Stratton: That is amazing. \n\n[00:35:24] Mo McElaney: Haven't finished my certification yet, ~~but ~~\n\n[00:35:26] Matty Stratton: you are you are, you're closer to it than the rest of us. I assume I know I shouldn't speak for Wesley and Jason, but I'm going to guess.\n\n[00:35:36] Jason Hand: All right, Matty. Let's hear your checkouts. \n\n[00:35:38] Matty Stratton: Yeah, a couple. So one thing there's a little bit of a theme here. So I've been getting a lot into weightlifting and working out over the last bit of time. And I can go on and on about that. And we'll talk about that another time, but there's a couple of things to check out.\n\n[00:35:52] Matty Stratton: One is there's this app that I like to do for keeping track of my lifting and it's called heavy H E V Y. There's a billion of them. And of course, [00:36:00] you'll see all the ads for all the AI generated and stuff, but literally you just want to keep track of stuff. Along those lines, there's this great trainer.\n\n[00:36:07] Matty Stratton: And her website is, she's a beast. co and she has this awesome program. If you're just getting started with lifting called couch to barbell, it's the liftoff program, but what's the greatest thing about it is there's a discord. For members of her newsletter. So basically for seven bucks a month, which is well worth it.\n\n[00:36:23] Matty Stratton: I spent so much time trying to find a community of people to live because of accountability and to learn from and everything. And everyone was like, here's an influencer. A lot of them can follow on Instagram. I'm like, that's not a community. And my friend Dave Shackelford that I used to work with at Patriot duty, clued me into the lift cord from this, and it has been the most amazing way.\n\n[00:36:42] Matty Stratton: I've got everybody gassing each other up. You have folks in there who have just started doing anything to people who are massively competitive Olympic lifters and all of this, and everyone. It is amazing together. So check it out. And then finally, the other thing I've been into lately, and I know I'm like a decade behind is fallout.\n\n[00:36:59] Matty Stratton: So the fallout [00:37:00] TV show, if you haven't seen it, check it out. It's amazing. It got me hooked on the game. Because the lore is great. It's quirky and funny. So anyway, check out\n\n[00:37:11] Matty Stratton: and everyone's dude, we've been playing Fallout. Like we started playing fallout like 20 years ago. Where are you? I'm like, cool. Soon I will learn about Mario. Just kidding. \n\n[00:37:17] Weslefy Faulkner: I \n\n[00:37:17] Matty Stratton: I already know about Mario. \n\n[00:37:21] Weslefy Faulkner: Yes. Also the fallout TV show is really good. And as an intro in terms of getting the, knowing what the scenario is for me, I only have one checkout and it's a book that I finished it's called, you're not listening.\n\n[00:37:35] Weslefy Faulkner: And the book is that I wanted to get it just to make sure that. I had all the techniques to stay engaged as a person with ADHD. There's often a conversation where I check out in the middle. And this gives some really good techniques about how to stay engaged, what to listen for, what are the reasons for not being engaged how to re engage how to understand if someone is not being engaged and making sure.[00:38:00] \n\n[00:38:01] Weslefy Faulkner: There are techniques in which you can phrase a question and pose an idea where you can get the maximum amount of engagement, which I think is also very important. Once again, the book's called you're not listening by Kate Murphy. \n\n[00:38:12] Jason Hand: Awesome. Yeah, I definitely need to add that to my list.\n\n[00:38:14] Jason Hand: I've got a few things here. I've got a couple of books. And then also I had mentioned that sort of new community type of event that's happening locally. If you're in the, what's called the Colorado region. Cause I feel like it's going to happen all over the place. You should check out wild spaces.\n\n[00:38:29] Jason Hand: That work. And or if you live in an area where you can get away from things maybe consider starting something similar. I think it's a pretty neat idea, very creative. And the books that I have are from a friend. SRE advocate former colleague at Microsoft David Blank Edelman.\n\n[00:38:46] Jason Hand: He's been a guest on our show a few times, but he just recently put out becoming an SRE and I'm I'd say about a third of the way through that. And it is really good. He's very funny. He's very smart. And all of that comes through in the book.\n\n[00:38:58] Jason Hand: He's got a lot of [00:39:00] smart people that he's talked to. So anyway, if you're in the DevOps SRE space, I highly recommend it. The other book I have actually David recommended this to me. So thank you, David. If you're listening. It's called, you have not heard your favorite song. And this is from somebody written by somebody who formerly was at Spotify and really just talking about sort of the transition into the digital music world.\n\n[00:39:19] Jason Hand: I think a lot of us have feelings around that. And I know for myself I'm big into music, both listening and playing. And I haven't gotten very far in this book, but I'm very curious to see what it does expose to me in terms of what it is you're missing out there. I think that there's, we all, I'm always coming across new music that I didn't know about.\n\n[00:39:36] Jason Hand: So I don't have a lot of feedback on what the book's going to tell me, but David says it's great. So I'm going to trust him and I'm looking forward to reading it. And I think that's it for me on checkouts.\n\n[00:39:45] Jason Hand: So anyway, thank you all for being here. Mo Maddy and Wesley, of course it's been great. Usually PJ, when he's on the show he's out today both him and Mary, but usually at the end, PJ likes to take us out with a little [00:40:00] quote from a musician that is somewhat relevant or just feels like the right vibe for today Wesley tossed a few into chat for me here because we didn't quite think about it ahead of time.\n\n[00:40:09] Jason Hand: I'm going to choose this one from John Lennon here that I like. For those of you who want to go out there and come up with something new to keep these community events, either floating as they are, or refactor them, like we said, or start something new.\n\n[00:40:24] Jason Hand: I encourage you to find some creativity, whatever that takes to do that. And the quote from John Lennon is there's nothing you can do that can't be done. And with that, I am going to say goodbye. Thank you so much to everyone joinning us today and we'll see you on the next episode of the community pulse.\n\n[00:40:44] Jason Hand: Bye.\n\nCheckouts\nMo McElaney\n\n\nContributor Covenant \nPresented “Digital Discrimination: Cognitive Bias in Machine Learning (and LLMs!)“ at PyData Conf on July 29 -  look out for the video!\nSpeaking at AI for the Rest of Us Conf in London this fall\nAsk a Master Gardener Hotline!\n\n\nMatty Stratton\n\n\nHevy - lifting app\nShe's a Beast - great program Couch to Barbell; amazing discord for folks/community\nFallout - the game and the show!\n[Devopsdays Chicago CFP](devopsdays.org/chicago) opens Aug 5!\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nYou’re Not Listening by Kate Murphy\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nWild Spaces\nBecoming SRE\nYou Have Not Heard Your Favorite Song: How Streaming Changes Music by Glenn McDonald\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork Photo by Tyler Callahan on UnsplashSpecial Guests: Matty Stratton and Mo McElaney.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eOver the past few years, we’ve seen conferences ebb and flow. Some community-run conferences have evolved into new things, new ones have sprouted up while other annual favorites have sadly gone extinct. What goes into a community-led conference? How does someone get involved? Let’s take a look!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e1. The Role of Community Conferences in DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJason Hand introduces the topic, highlighting the evolution of community conferences over the years. While some conferences have grown, others have disappeared, leaving the question of what sustains such events.\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner discusses the importance of understanding the origins and logistics behind community conferences, including the passion and effort required to make them happen.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e2. Guests’ Journeys into Organizing Community Events:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nStarted organizing DevOpsDays Chicago after realizing the need for a local event in his area. His motivation was to be involved in something he cared about by taking the lead in creating it.\u003cbr\u003e\nShared how his experience organizing swing dance events shaped his community involvement philosophy: organizing allows him to stay engaged and create meaningful connections.\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nEntered tech after a career switch during the 2009 recession. She started organizing events through a nonprofit teaching women to code, which opened doors to organizing Ruby conferences and others.\u003cbr\u003e\nHer lack of experience in tech initially became a motivator for organizing conferences, as it allowed her to connect with experts and learn from them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e3. Why Organizers Keep Coming Back:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMo McElaney: Community conferences create meaningful connections and friendships. They are also a way to spot industry trends by seeing what topics speakers submit for presentations.\u003cbr\u003e\nMatty Stratton:\u003cbr\u003e\nHighlighted the emotional rewards of helping others and witnessing life-changing moments for attendees, such as finding jobs or negotiating better salaries through transparent discussions at events like DevOpsDays.\u003cbr\u003e\nShared the struggles of stepping back from organizing long-running events due to the personal attachment and friendships developed over the years.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e4. Impact of COVID-19 on Community Conferences:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMatty Stratton and Mo McElaney agree that COVID-19 significantly disrupted the conference landscape:\u003cbr\u003e\nMany community conferences either downsized, paused, or failed to recover due to funding challenges.\u003cbr\u003e\nThe corporate sponsorship landscape has shifted, prioritizing events with high ROI and attendee numbers over smaller, more impactful community-led events.\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner observes that increased workloads and layoffs post-COVID have further limited individuals’ capacity to attend or organize events.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e5. Challenges in Organizing Community Conferences:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nFunding:\u003cbr\u003e\nConferences often struggle to secure sponsorships, especially in today’s economic climate.\u003cbr\u003e\nCorporate funding focuses on large-scale events, leaving smaller, localized conferences underfunded.\u003cbr\u003e\nVolunteer Management:\u003cbr\u003e\nOrganizers face difficulties when volunteers fail to deliver on their commitments. Unlike employees, volunteers can’t be held accountable in the same way.\u003cbr\u003e\nMentoring and transitioning leadership roles is often overlooked, leading to burnout or gaps when organizers step away.\u003cbr\u003e\nChanging Needs and Expectations:\u003cbr\u003e\nConferences that fail to adapt post-COVID may struggle to thrive. The shift towards virtual and hybrid formats requires innovation to stay relevant.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e6. Refactoring the Community Conference Model:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMatty Stratton and Jason Hand propose the need for reimagining how conferences operate:\u003cbr\u003e\nSmaller, localized events can reduce costs and environmental impact while fostering deeper connections.\u003cbr\u003e\nEvents like outdoor retreats (e.g., DevOpsDays Rockies incorporating the natural setting of Colorado) demonstrate creative ways to bring people together.\u003cbr\u003e\nMo McElaney emphasizes the importance of paying speakers and organizers for their work, advocating for a more sustainable model that values the labor involved in organizing community events.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Takeaways:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCommunity Conferences Have Evolved:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPost-COVID, conferences face new challenges, including funding limitations, organizer burnout, and changing attendee expectations.\u003cbr\u003e\nThe importance of maintaining the participatory, community-driven spirit remains central to their success.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eInnovative Models Are Needed:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nSmaller, more targeted events or creative formats like retreats could address the current barriers to large-scale conferences.\u003cbr\u003e\nOrganizers need to adapt to funding realities by prioritizing impactful, cost-effective event models.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSustainability and Support Are Crucial:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPaying organizers and speakers is essential to sustaining long-term involvement in community conference planning.\u003cbr\u003e\nMentorship and succession planning are critical to ensuring the continuity of events and avoiding burnout.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAdvice for Aspiring Conference Organizers:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eClarify Your Capacity:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nBe upfront about your time, skills, and communication preferences to set realistic expectations for yourself and the organizing team.\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eUnderstand the Commitment:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nAsk detailed questions about the role’s expectations and assess whether it aligns with your availability.\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eKnow Your Motivation:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nReflect on why you want to organize events. Your passion for the community will help you persevere during challenging moments.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClosing Thoughts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nCommunity conferences are evolving but remain a vital part of the DevRel ecosystem.\u003cbr\u003e\nCollaboration, innovation, and sustainability will ensure these events continue to thrive in the changing landscape.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFinal Quote:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n“There’s nothing you can do that can’t be done.” – John Lennon\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKeywords:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nCommunity Conferences\u003cbr\u003e\nDevRel (Developer Relations)\u003cbr\u003e\nOrganizing Events\u003cbr\u003e\nPost-COVID Challenges\u003cbr\u003e\nFunding\u003cbr\u003e\nVolunteers\u003cbr\u003e\nLeadership\u003cbr\u003e\nSponsorship\u003cbr\u003e\nCommunity Engagement\u003cbr\u003e\nHybrid Events\u003cbr\u003e\nLocal Events\u003cbr\u003e\nCompensation\u003cbr\u003e\nEvent Sustainability\u003cbr\u003e\nSpeaker Fees\u003cbr\u003e\nCommunity Building\u003cbr\u003e\nMentorship\u003cbr\u003e\nInnovation\u003cbr\u003e\nCorporate Sponsorship\u003cbr\u003e\nEmerging Trends\u003cbr\u003e\nDevOpsDays\u003cbr\u003e\nPyCon US\u003cbr\u003e\nRethinking Conference Models\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003ch2\u003eTranscript\u003c/h2\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:00] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Over the past few years, we\u0026#39;ve seen conferences ebb and flow. Some community run conferences have evolved into new things. New ones have sprouted up, while other annual favorites have sadly gone extinct. What goes into community led conferences, and how does someone get involved? Let\u0026#39;s take a look.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:20] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Conferences are such a big part of many DevRel programs. But where do they come from? Who puts them together and what really happens behind the scenes? We\u0026#39;ve gathered some of DevRel\u0026#39;s event organizers who can help us out. Mo and Maddy, could you introduce yourself, starting with Mo? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:38] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Hello! Thank you for having me.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:40] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e My name is Mo McElhaney. I work for IBM, leading the strategy of our open source AI developer programs in IBM Research. I ran a nonprofit teaching women to code from 2012 to 2018. I\u0026#39;ve spoken at conferences around the world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:59] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e And I\u0026#39;ve [00:01:00] organized a bunch of different conferences over the years. Burlington Ruby, UX Burlington, Vermont Code Camp, Offline Camp, Abstractions Conf in Pittsburgh. And currently I\u0026#39;m on the contact committee for PyCon US and Ray Summit. And I\u0026#39;m on the board of the Vermont Technology Alliance. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:20] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Great.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:20] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m Matty. I currently run developer relations and growth for a company called Aiven. And I also have my own DevOps podcast, Arrested DevOps, on the topic of community conferences. I\u0026#39;ve spent my time as a conference speaker at all sorts of community events all over the world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:36] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e I was the founder of DevOps Day Chicago, when that started. I\u0026#39;ve been a co-chair of the global team for DevOps days worldwide, and currently in an advisory role with that. I also help out with the content track for all day DevOps, and there\u0026#39;s probably a bunch of other community related conferences that I\u0026#39;m forgetting about that I\u0026#39;ve helped out at some point over the years.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:58] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And so if I didn\u0026#39;t name your [00:02:00] event and I helped you I apologize, hit me on Twitter and yell at me. Excited to be back on Community Pulse. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:08] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e You really have someone who loves the community when they can\u0026#39;t remember all the things that they\u0026#39;ve done to help run conferences and help the community get together and.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:18] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Speaking to passion and thinking about why you\u0026#39;re doing this. What is your specific answer? Why, what led you to organize conferences to start with you, Maddie? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:27] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s funny. And if I want to be a little introspective and honest, it\u0026#39;s the same thing that I think brings me to organize. Anything is one of the ways that you can make sure you\u0026#39;re involved in something is to run it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:41] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And I look back over the time and I spent years running a community around swing dancing here in Chicago. This is not a good life lesson or a good way to live your life. So I don\u0026#39;t recommend it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:52] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e But really the first community event that I. Got involved in organizing was DevOps days, Chicago, and it came from [00:03:00] being interested in DevOps days, having wanted to go to one and not having had the chance and saying, Hey, maybe we should have one in Chicago reached out to the global team, and they said, Oh last year, some people were interested.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:12] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e I can put you in touch with them. Maybe y\u0026#39;all can figure it out where we are now. 10 plus years later after that, a fateful little meeting that we had in the second floor walkup consulting company thing. So it\u0026#39;s interesting, and hear what most is what leads you to originally organize a conference and what keeps you doing it, or maybe two different questions and maybe we come back to that second one in a minute.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:31] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e \u0026#39;cause the answers are \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:32] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. I would love that answer. And I think it also has. You don\u0026#39;t have to be an expert in something before you start trying to organize around it, which is great. So Mo, what is your story? What got you involved? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:44] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e That is a very good segue into my answer to that question because I\u0026#39;m a mid career switch into tech.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:51] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e I coded before I had a full time job in tech, but I got laid off in 2009 when the recession in the United States happened. [00:04:00] And I saw all my friends who worked in software, whether they got laid off or not, they still were making money. So I was like, Oh, I need to really get into tech.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:09] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e And so I started going to meetups. I was teaching myself to code for real. And then I started a nonprofit teaching women to code. And in doing that work, as anyone who\u0026#39;s listening or anyone on the show knows, once you start organizing something, everyone wants you to help them with the thing that they\u0026#39;re organizing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:30] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e And so because of running that tech community, Meetup. I got invited to organize our local Ruby conference because we were teaching a Ruby class and it just was a perfect synchrony. And then, in doing that work, I got invited to organize another conference and it was a way for me to learn from the best.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:49] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e In the industry, because when you get involved with a conference, you\u0026#39;re inviting people to come and speak who are really experienced or really interesting and have an interesting way of teaching a [00:05:00] concept. And my inexperience is what led me to organizing conferences. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:06] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I feel like that\u0026#39;s definitely similar to my experience and Wesley, I think, maybe you\u0026#39;re also the same, but.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:12] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e To Matty\u0026#39;s story, like mine\u0026#39;s almost identical with DevOps days. I saw, I think, I don\u0026#39;t know which DevOps days it might\u0026#39;ve been. Chicago was one of my, it was either Minneapolis or Chicago was one of the first ones I went to. And I was like, Oh, this is pretty rad. We need something like this in Denver.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:26] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And it just is like filling a gap, filling a need of what was already a meetup going on in the area. And I was, just Oh we deserve something like this. Like the Denver area, the front range actually was what it was, when I was really focused on, because one of the tenants of DevOps days is to be very, ultra inclusive.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:47] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I felt if we called it DevOps days, Denver, some of the folks in Boulder. 30 minutes away, they may not come. It\u0026#39;s not going to feel like it\u0026#39;s one of their things. So we decided to call it DevOps stays Rockies, which meant to like [00:06:00] really, including the whole front range of, from Colorado Springs, all the way up to Fort Collins.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:05] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I got yelled at for calling it Rockies, which is true because like we wanted it to be Denver, but. I felt like I got a pass on it because it was inclusive, in the Rockies, at least to the culture out here. Denver and Boulder are two different people or two different things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:18] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And you\u0026#39;re just not going to get a lot of cross collaboration. So anyway, let\u0026#39;s pivot a little bit on what Maddie was talking about. There\u0026#39;s one thing about starting the conferences. It\u0026#39;s something else to keep you coming back and doing it year after year or whatever the frequency is.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:33] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m wondering if we can start with maybe Mo on you with this one. Is there anything that sort of keeps you returning back to these? Or is there something that inspires you to either grow it or maintain it? What are your thoughts around that? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:48] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Community conferences are the best.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:51] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;ve made the best of friends at community conferences that I\u0026#39;ve attended. The organizers are always just really passionate about the community and it\u0026#39;s [00:07:00] just always a wonderful experience. Sometimes it\u0026#39;s really stressful because at a community conference, we\u0026#39;re going to talk about the hardest thing about running community conferences, I think, but funding is always an issue.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:09] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e So it\u0026#39;s really stressful trying to figure out how you\u0026#39;re going to. Have the money that you need to do the things you want to do and all that. And the other cool thing, as a developer advocate, it\u0026#39;s a really easy way to see trends in the industry. If you\u0026#39;re involved with the content for conferences, you\u0026#39;re seeing what developers are interested in because you\u0026#39;re seeing what they\u0026#39;re submitting to the conference.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:29] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e And so you get the inside. Track on what people want to see and what they want to be learning and what they want to brag about. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:37] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003eVery true. And Matty, you\u0026#39;re still on, are you still involved with DevOps Days Chicago or?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:41] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And that\u0026#39;s a story about that. It has to do with actually connecting pretty well to what keeps you coming back. And one of the other parts is what makes it hard to not come back. What makes it hard to stop because sometimes you need to stop. But to answer your question shortly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:55] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e So this year is 25. We\u0026#39;re not doing one for 2024. So the next DevOps day, Chicago [00:08:00] will be in March of 2025, a single day event, a new thing. I am an advisor. But they have asked me to be the emcee. So that part keeps happening, but it\u0026#39;s about the people, but in two different ways.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:13] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e So it\u0026#39;s the, first of all, about sort of the participants and one of the reasons I use the word participant really intentionally there. So one of the things for the community event that is DevOps day Chicago, that we believe really strongly in Is that everybody there, nobody\u0026#39;s badge says speaker or sponsor, whatever they all say, participant, because everybody is there to participate together and I feel really strongly that community events tend to be very participatory, you don\u0026#39;t go there to be spoken at, maybe some people do, you do you man, that\u0026#39;s not the intent.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:44] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e But even as an organizer, it\u0026#39;s like you\u0026#39;re participating in it, you\u0026#39;re part of it, and you see what everybody gets out of it, right? It\u0026#39;s the thing of like, how many times over the years I will encounter folks at other events, [00:09:00] on LinkedIn, on socials, on whatever, someone comes on and they talk about how They came to DevOps Day Chicago, and that\u0026#39;s what got them into the job that they have.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:09] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Things happen at these events that change people\u0026#39;s lives. We think about things like TalkPay, which is a very popular thing at a lot of community events where people are very transparent about their compensation. And it literally gets people, when they know about people that have found better jobs, that have gotten paid better, that have done those things, you\u0026#39;re like, how can you not have this keep going?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:29] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And from the personal. I hesitate to say selfish, part of that is, that\u0026#39;s a little selfish too, cause I\u0026#39;m like, I feel awesome. And I\u0026#39;m like, cool. I was helpful and helped your life. My co organizers it\u0026#39;s there. And, I know we\u0026#39;re going to talk about how COVID changed everything, but I remember our first in person DevOps stage, Chicago being up on stage.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:47] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And I was just like in tears because I missed these people, even though we had done an event together, but even that event that was in person, Didn\u0026#39;t get together the way that we used to, [00:10:00] and it was, I was like, these were folks that throughout the year, cause it takes a year to run this event, event would come off and we\u0026#39;d be like, all right, we\u0026#39;re going to give ourselves like six weeks.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:06] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Everybody go back and get away from this for a minute. And we got to start again. And, you get together and we all go and order pizza to Margaret\u0026#39;s house to review the talks. And this is the place we would go. And, you think about stories about drinking a bunch of beer at an elephant in castle and saying, Hey, Jerry, can I have money to buy a yak costume and.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:24] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Now we have one, it\u0026#39;s like those types of things. And you have new people come in and out every year, but you have this set of folks and they\u0026#39;re some of your greatest friends and you like to make things with them, but it\u0026#39;s also a hell of a lot of work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:39] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Conferences are a lot of work and I think everything that you mentioned is a form of pay or. Recompense for putting in that effort. And I know we, you mentioned the COVID during COVID. I remember us as a group and just the Royal us, talking about okay, so what are we [00:11:00] doing now?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:00] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And then let\u0026#39;s do some efficiencies of a virtual conference. Let\u0026#39;s do more webinars. Let\u0026#39;s write more blog posts, do more content. These things were in place of some of the ways that. We did some of that stuff at conferences. And then we\u0026#39;re then after that, or during that period, we\u0026#39;re also saying when will conferences come back?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:19] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And then people will start meeting up again. And then the conversation shifted to, are they the same and what are we going to keep doing that we did during the lockdowns conferences do have. Some meaning, and there\u0026#39;s only things you can do at conferences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:33] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So they\u0026#39;re not good at everything, but they\u0026#39;re good at some really great things that can\u0026#39;t be replaced. My question is in this period of time where it seems like things have equalized. When you look now, do you look before COVID, would you say that conferences are at the same level? Have they increased?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:52] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Have they decreased? Where are we now in terms of conferences as in before COVID after COVID Are things better and in terms [00:12:00] of the amount of events, are we seeing more people having more conferences, or are we seeing just less overall conferences, but better quality? What would you say?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:08] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Let\u0026#39;s start with you, Matty. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:09] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s, haha y\u0026#39;all know how much I hate root cause and there\u0026#39;s a lot of contributing factors to the landscape of community conferences today. But there is some definite causation because one of the things that was clear from the year or two of massive slowdown is for a lot of it and not necessarily what people want, but what organizations are willing to fund.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:38] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e So it\u0026#39;s a lot of, if what you get out of it is just, how much more can you learn in different ways? I think that, in my opinion, the bigger impact to what I would say is a decline in community led conferences. And it\u0026#39;s a shame because this is not what I would have predicted and what I was hoping was going to come out of [00:13:00] COVID.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:00] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e I thought it was going to be the flip. Yeah. Because of the costs and but I think it\u0026#39;s less about maybe we could say that a contributing factor to the current economy is related to COVID so therefore it\u0026#39;s COVID but in today\u0026#39;s economy, the dollars and the ducats are harder to get and We also find a lot of folks in their community events are still wanting to run events in the playbook that they ran pre COVID when money was cheap and you could get lots of sponsor dollars and we\u0026#39;re used to doing things in a certain way.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:35] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Anyway, I want to bring it back to the change that has happened, but I made a comment where I said this is not what I was hoping and If you look, we talked about this topic slightly on arrested DevOps in the retrospective of Chicago 2020. And I\u0026#39;ll give you a link for the show notes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:49] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And at the time, one of the ways I was thinking when I was looking at what was happening was with conferences starting to decline through COVID. My prediction. And maybe it was what I wanted to [00:14:00] happen was that we would see a rise in community events because community events are cheaper to do and to attend and thinking about, these big shows that cost bajillions of dollars remember at this time, too, we were seeing O\u0026#39;Reilly shutting down their way of funding that velocity going away all these big events and I was like, here we go community events.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:22] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And, maybe we missed it as community events to be able to refactor how to be able to optimize for the fact that they were, that community events tend to be local. They tend to be regional. Instead of having to try to do this scenario, because I think when the other thing in the decline besides the cost is that also people are trying to think about sustainability, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:44] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And they\u0026#39;re like, Hey, maybe I don\u0026#39;t want to be, maybe we shouldn\u0026#39;t all. Be flying from the whole world to San Diego or whatever for this one big event. Whereas if we could have smaller bits and pieces that exist, so all these things have multiple contributing factors. [00:15:00] Anyway, do I see the thing that there\u0026#39;s been a decline in community led conferences since covid?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:05] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e I think yes, because of COVID, I don\u0026#39;t know, but if that\u0026#39;s the point in time, we are saying there absolutely has been, and I will, I can speak specifically from DevOps days. And I would love to hear what Mo and the rest of you do for the other events that you do. We have seen the number. It\u0026#39;s very interesting because we look at how many DevOps days happen every year.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:25] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And that number like Was this massive spike in 2019? It was huge. And then you\u0026#39;re like, Oh, and then they were like, none. But then you look at it and you\u0026#39;re like, cool. Look at devopsdates. org and you see all these cities are having it. And as a core member, I can tell you, and you know how many of them end up getting canceled and don\u0026#39;t actually happen.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:43] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e How many? A lot. That\u0026#39;s the scientific rational number of it is a lot or continually get postponed because, Oh, we weren\u0026#39;t able to make our funding. We weren\u0026#39;t able to do that. We have to cancel it. And so we\u0026#39;re not back. And I don\u0026#39;t know that we will be without [00:16:00] changing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:00] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e How we reason about these in kind of the new world. It sounds like the community run conferences need a collective PR department \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:07] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e to help with getting the word out. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:08] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Don\u0026#39;t think it\u0026#39;s we need to realize that you don\u0026#39;t, the money is not there.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:14] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e So you don\u0026#39;t, Maybe you have to run the event in a different way. You\u0026#39;re used to being able to, and again, I\u0026#39;ll tell you that like Chicago we always make a lot of money on our, I don\u0026#39;t say we make a lot of money. We don\u0026#39;t profit, but we get tons of sponsors. Our event is very expensive. DevUpstate Chicago costs over a quarter million dollars to run, do you need to spend that much money to run a DevOps space? You absolutely do not, but a lot of events are used to doing that and you\u0026#39;re just like, yo we have to have 600 people cause we\u0026#39;ve always had 600 people and we have to have all of this cause we\u0026#39;ve always had it. And you\u0026#39;re like, do you?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:47] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And that\u0026#39;s the thing we miss. In Covid time was the chance to refactor and so why also most virtual events failed. ~~Sorry, I swear to God I\u0026#39;m gonna stop talking. ~~\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:54] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e ~~So Mo, ~~are you seeing what Maddie\u0026#39;s seeing? And also are you in favor of a refactor?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:58] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you think? [00:17:00] \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:00] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e I definitely am seeing exactly what Maddie\u0026#39;s seeing. And I think it\u0026#39;s also connected to meetups. I haven\u0026#39;t seen meetups return to what they were. Anecdotally for me, a lot of the main organizers of my favorite communities either left DevRel or have been laid off and have been having job insecurity.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:24] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that\u0026#39;s a widespread industry thing. It\u0026#39;s been tough out there. And so it, my impression is that there isn\u0026#39;t the same bandwidth for people to do the organizing. And maybe we didn\u0026#39;t do a good enough job of raising up the next generation of organizers. I think that\u0026#39;s another issue that is just a chronic thing in communities is having that mentorship where you\u0026#39;re raising up the next people to come up behind you when you inevitably, either burnout.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:55] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Hopefully you don\u0026#39;t burn out, but if you burn out, a lot of community organizers burn out [00:18:00] eventually. Or you just, your life changes and you can\u0026#39;t do as much as you were doing before. And who are these people that are going to come up behind us to organize these things? And how do we make it a good experience for them so that they get what they need to take it over?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:15] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e I also think that, yeah, I agree funding hasn\u0026#39;t come back. It\u0026#39;s tough to get funding. I agree with Maddie. I thought community conferences were going to come back strong after COVID, but it seems like the corporate ones are the ones that suck up all the funding and then there\u0026#39;s nothing left.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:30] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e And I feel like from my perspective, coming from a tech giant people want to fund the things that are going to have a big art, like ROI and they\u0026#39;re, they want big numbers. And they\u0026#39;re not looking at like the quality, but community events are just like such a different experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:50] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e And you can have such a wider impact if you are investing in a whole bunch of communities like dev ops days or pi data, or all the [00:19:00] pi ladies, all these communities that have chapters all around the world. If you could invest in those, you\u0026#39;re having smaller events, but the overall numbers are high, but I feel like, from what I\u0026#39;ve seen in the corporate trending around this, people want to see thousands of heads that are viewing your content and not necessarily just like a hundred in one event.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:25] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Even though the sponsorship level would be way cheaper than. Arguably the impact would be higher because you\u0026#39;re actually getting a more authentic interaction with a smaller group of people and actually getting them playing with things. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:40] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe people see your logo, but they\u0026#39;re not actually doing anything because they\u0026#39;re running around to the next session. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:46] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Those are really good points. I also think that, during the pandemic COVID period, productivity went to all time highs. And then after the rates [00:20:00] got increased, layoffs also happened that mass.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:03] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And so now someone who\u0026#39;s already working at their peak, and then on top of that, now they are taking on the work of their coworkers who are no longer at the company. Maybe they don\u0026#39;t have the time to go to conferences as much. Maybe their routine has changed so that it feels like it\u0026#39;s a little extra.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:18] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e But Jason, you have the next question. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:20] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh I just had one, there was one thing, a point Mo made about why places don\u0026#39;t sponsor the community events and they want to get the thousand and one other thing that I\u0026#39;ve observed and I could be wrong. Community events tend to be not about.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:34] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Products and specific technologies. They tend to be things like PyCon or DevOps days or whatever, which means as a marketer, I don\u0026#39;t understand the persona as clearly because we\u0026#39;ve had this conversation about why, it seems like nothing, no shade against KubeCon, but people want to spend way much more money sponsoring KubeCon than DevOps days.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:53] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And I\u0026#39;ve had organizers say to me like, Oh, it\u0026#39;s because there\u0026#39;s so many more people. And I said, no, because they know what they\u0026#39;re there to buy. [00:21:00] But someone who comes to an event about DevOps. I don\u0026#39;t understand who that is. I don\u0026#39;t know if it\u0026#39;s my target market or whatever. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:07] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And it\u0026#39;s about an awareness thing. So one was we would have it at DevOps days where you would get to a fun thing where. There were events. I remember chef did this in one year where they were like, we\u0026#39;re going to sponsor every single DevOps day. So it\u0026#39;s really clear that we care about the community.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:20] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And I believe that they did and whatnot. But one of my favorite things that was interesting was for a time at monitor Rama. You didn\u0026#39;t have, if you were in a certain part of the industry, you had no choice, but to sponsor monitor Rama, because if you didn\u0026#39;t people wondered what was wrong, so if you were like in the monitoring space and suddenly you weren\u0026#39;t sponsoring, basically what that said was we are struggling.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:45] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And this, but now it\u0026#39;s, there\u0026#39;s much more needing to connect like most to that ROI and to be able to say this is going to actually convert and that the long tail is because everybody when the. Beans start getting [00:22:00] counted and the economy shrinks down it, which it shouldn\u0026#39;t because everybody is making lots of money, but whatever.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:07] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s, it, it\u0026#39;s you, I\u0026#39;ve said this about Deverell about when the economy gets tough, we have to do things that require less imagination to show value. And the same thing, your sponsorship has to require less imagination. It has to be a shorter line between sponsor dollars. And money, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:25] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e That\u0026#39;s just, that\u0026#39;s where the economy is right now. But you can do those things. Anyway, you had a question. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:31] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. You bring up a good point there, Maddie, because I feel like it wasn\u0026#39;t just Monitorama. That\u0026#39;s an excellent example. I think DevOpsDays was a good example of that too. Like a lot of companies, their marketing teams set aside a budget.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:42] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e The company needed to be seen as a good steward of the community as just a player in the DevOps space.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:49] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Sometimes I think that maybe DevOps in general as a term or as a movement or whatever, like we, a lot of folks just have this feeling of what we solved for a lot of those problems. And so now [00:23:00] there\u0026#39;s, we just don\u0026#39;t have the need to like be there and be involved in those conversations because CICD has already been solved and the incident management has been solved.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:08] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And like just a lot of the things that we were talking about we still talk about them, but in different ways. And so it\u0026#39;s definitely that the budgeting has tightened up a lot. And I know for myself, like I\u0026#39;m much less willing to spend personal time outside of my like nine to five work to like work on or attend things, in the evening or on the weekends or stuff.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:30] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m just not as interested. And some of that\u0026#39;s just maybe age, I\u0026#39;m just grown older and I just rather use my personal time on other things. Some of it, I feel like I\u0026#39;m old and in the way sometimes. And maybe there\u0026#39;s like a new crop of people who have a lot more creativity and ideas and I should just step out.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:43] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I get aggravated when people older than me don\u0026#39;t do that and I don\u0026#39;t want to be that way. Also, a lot of the events have turned sadly into DevRel talking to DevRel. And that bothers me a little bit too. And I don\u0026#39;t know what the solution is because, if you look at the [00:24:00] CFPs, that\u0026#39;s just what we\u0026#39;re getting submissions from.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:02] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e That is, that\u0026#39;s what a bulk of the submissions are to DevRel. That\u0026#39;s their job. It\u0026#39;s my job to go and be in communities and talk and stuff, but I don\u0026#39;t want to be talking to only other, I don\u0026#39;t want it to be a room full of just You know, us, like I want to be talking to engineers and other folks too and learning from them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:19] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the refactoring stuff or the re-imagining of a lot of these events is underway in a lot of places. I can tell you about the DevOps days, Rocky\u0026#39;s folks, a lot of them I haven\u0026#39;t really been directly involved with this, but I\u0026#39;m going to start participating is they\u0026#39;ve taken what used to be like meetups and things like that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:35] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And now they go off into the woods, into the mountains and get together and connect their star links and spend a few days. Working, away from offices, but together with a smaller group of people. I like that idea. I haven\u0026#39;t yet gone. I\u0026#39;m going to hopefully go to the next one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:50] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that\u0026#39;s later this month. I\u0026#39;ll be sharing a link to that in my checkouts later, but it\u0026#39;s I think a really creative way. Instead of trying to find, a conference room [00:25:00] or some office that you can borrow or rent or something.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:04] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And trying to get, people still had to pay for a meetup. com, which isn\u0026#39;t cheap. So you had to get sponsorship money. And a lot of that is just people don\u0026#39;t want to do that anymore. And so I think there is this way there\u0026#39;s like new, I, a new movement. I don\u0026#39;t know if movement\u0026#39;s quite the word, but I like that I\u0026#39;m seeing some creative ways of getting folks together and at least, filling that void of I still miss you all.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:26] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I still want to talk, but I don\u0026#39;t really want to do it the way we used to do it. So anyway, those are just my thoughts around that, but let\u0026#39;s pivot a little bit. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:32] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Just want to mention too, that like for me, my experience in organizing events. Most of it was unpaid labor. The large majority of it was unpaid labor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:44] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e And I was able to do that before I had kids. And because I was career switching and I felt like I had to to get where I wanted to go. And I just think that people should get paid to do this work. [00:26:00] Either, if maybe you\u0026#39;re in DevRel and it\u0026#39;s part of your job, but, you That wasn\u0026#39;t a common thing that I\u0026#39;ve seen in community conferences.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:08] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e And maybe people are less willing to do community conferences if they\u0026#39;re not going to get paid for the labor. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:14] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e That is really interesting because first of all, I\u0026#39;m actually a big believer in paying speakers. Not that Oh my God, look at my ice cold take that speakers should be paid.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:23] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e But it\u0026#39;s interesting because it\u0026#39;s actually a very important rule. So theoretically DevOps days and organizers are not paid. Which again, goes back to that. Maybe we need to rethink some things because this happens often in DevOps and because DevOps has been around since 2009.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:39] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e So a lot of the quote unquote rules and guidelines of this global event. They\u0026#39;re not, they shouldn\u0026#39;t be sacred with things like that. Cause the world changes in certain ways. And I understand like the reason the intent for a lot of times is you don\u0026#39;t want these to be for profit things, but also people who work for a non for profit get paid, so it\u0026#39;s a way to think about it, but you\u0026#39;re right, because you have this [00:27:00] unpaid labor and it gets into the people who have the ability to do that. Money is not the thing that\u0026#39;s annoying about all of this is the conferences that have the money to pay the people and do the things don\u0026#39;t do it, or they do because people work there.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:13] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And unfortunately, community events, we try to be cheap and try inexpensive and accessible and all these things. If you could find some way to reward this, maybe you do that instead of having a big fancy party or. Heaven forbid a yak costume. No, you always have to have money for the costume and actually most importantly to have money for the cleaning of the yak costume.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:32] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Do not forget that when you pick your mascots. You got to set aside a budget for that. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:39] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So it feels like we\u0026#39;re talking a lot. We\u0026#39;re covering several of the difficult areas of running these conferences. I\u0026#39;m wondering, and it also feels like we can bucket it into like pre COVID and post COVID too, but I\u0026#39;m wondering what other things are there that are difficult?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:56] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Those are things to consider when putting on a conference or trying to maintain a [00:28:00] conference over 10 years like some of the ones out there are longer I don\u0026#39;t know, Maddie, start with you, maybe on this one. And what are your thoughts? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:06] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the big challenges with an event like this and doing a thing. And I, it\u0026#39;s going to sound maybe a little crass if you can\u0026#39;t fire someone who\u0026#39;s volunteering for performance. And this is often with many things people want to do. So again, give the, if you go back to the example of when we wanted to kick off the first DevOps day, Chicago, 15 people came to that meeting of the 15 people, three of us are still now, first of all, we\u0026#39;re the three people that\u0026#39;s crazy that we\u0026#39;re still doing it, but how many fall in, how many people at anything like this, you\u0026#39;d see an open source, everything.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:36] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yeah. I want to help with this. I\u0026#39;m like, I need someone to help. And I\u0026#39;ll get this big influx of a dozen people like, we\u0026#39;ll help work on the website. And then it doesn\u0026#39;t happen. So one of the challenges though, is because especially you\u0026#39;re trying to create, like organizing a conference is hard.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:50] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e It has a lot of moving parts. People have different responsibilities. And if someone doesn\u0026#39;t do what they\u0026#39;re supposed to do or what they agreed to do, you really don\u0026#39;t [00:29:00] have a lot of recourse. Because they\u0026#39;re volunteering and you can\u0026#39;t really, you could yell at them, but you feel like a jerk because someone\u0026#39;s volunteering, they\u0026#39;re doing their time, and everything like that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:10] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And some of it you can\u0026#39;t really even, and then sometimes you\u0026#39;re like I can\u0026#39;t even get rid of you because who else is going to do it, even though you\u0026#39;re not. So that\u0026#39;s one challenge of organizing. And the other part is just everybody has different ability to do what they want to do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:23] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Like in terms of how much they commit, and it is probably not uncommon. I bet you, if you look at almost any community conference event, there are probably a handful of people that you feel like, if you ask everybody organizing team, they\u0026#39;re like, yep, you know what? Jason and Wesley, they don\u0026#39;t do crap and Mo does everything.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:42] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And, it\u0026#39;s again, that I think is one of the big challenges of that is how do you balance that? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:48] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that managing the volunteers is the hardest. Aside from money obviously is always a stressor and, making sure you have enough to do what you want to do, but [00:30:00] managing the volunteers and also, mentoring people to take over and handing things off and being okay with them not being done the way you would want them done necessarily.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:11] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that\u0026#39;s the hardest part. And that is crucial to making sure your community lives on past you. And yeah, it\u0026#39;s a difficult part. I\u0026#39;ve done it well in the past. I\u0026#39;ve done it poorly in the past with events that I\u0026#39;ve done. And so I don\u0026#39;t have a great answer, but that\u0026#39;s what I think is the hardest.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:33] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e All right. We\u0026#39;re good. We\u0026#39;re coming up on the end of this, but I want to try to bring it on as actual advice for people who are listening to this that are just considering getting into this field of volunteering.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:48] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e What advice would you give them to help them make the determination if they should or should not? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:53] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that you should go in \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:54] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e this? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:55] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Sorry. I think that you should go into it being really clear about [00:31:00] your capacity and what you have time for and the best way to communicate with you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:31:06] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Because that will really help the organizer with leveraging you in the best way and. And then it also sets both of you up for success, because if the organizer knows what you\u0026#39;re there to do and why you\u0026#39;re there and, what you\u0026#39;re not able to do, then they\u0026#39;re not wasting your time, assigning you things and then you don\u0026#39;t get them done and then everyone is frustrated and, so\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:31:34] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e I just want to double down on that. I want to agree. And I think you need to, when you\u0026#39;re getting involved, be not only very clear about what you can do, but ask those questions if you\u0026#39;re going to join an organizing event or something like that and say, realistically, what is the commitment you expect out of me?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:31:51] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e What is, what, how, what do you need and what does that mean? And then sit down. And assume that it\u0026#39;s twice that and say, does that fit [00:32:00] within your bandwidth to be able to do that because things are going to happen. Sit down and take a long, hard look at yourself and say, why do I want to do this?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:32:08] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Because there\u0026#39;s going to be times that it\u0026#39;s going to be super duper hard and you need to know that the reason that you\u0026#39;re doing it is enough to pull you through the days that suck, so just know that. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:32:18] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Awesome. As Wesley pointed out, we\u0026#39;re getting towards the end of our time here.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:32:21] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So I want to thank both of you for joining us. I think that community events are still out there. I wouldn\u0026#39;t, I don\u0026#39;t know if I feel to have the confidence to say they\u0026#39;re thriving, but I feel like they\u0026#39;re evolving. I know that DevOpsDays Rockies is much, much smaller this year. I\u0026#39;m a little bit excited about that for some reason.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:32:38] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it\u0026#39;s going to be, I don\u0026#39;t know, maybe I just like change as long as it\u0026#39;s a good change. I think it\u0026#39;s healthy. They\u0026#39;re holding it at a brewery this year. I\u0026#39;m just, I\u0026#39;m optimistic, to see how things are going to change a little bit here.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:33:43] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Let\u0026#39;s pivot away into our checkouts. As most of those of you\u0026#39;ve been listening to the show forever, we spend the last 10 minutes or so just going around the room and letting our guests and whoever\u0026#39;s hosting share some of the different things that they are thinking about, reading about, watching, talking about just [00:34:00] anything that\u0026#39;s on top of your mind.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:34:00] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Moe, I guess if you are Ready? Let\u0026#39;s maybe start with you and then go to Maddie from there and then Wesley, and then I can wrap things up. So what do you got for checkouts? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:34:08] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. So I am a contributor to the contributor covenant and we are working on version three of that code of conduct.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:34:18] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e So if you want to get involved in version three of this, a big part of it is we want it to be more transferable to in person events. not just open source projects. Relevant to this conversation. I also just this past Monday presented at PI data Vermont on cognitive bias and machine learning.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:34:40] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e So if you are interested in that, you can check out the video it\u0026#39;s coming out soon. I\u0026#39;m also giving that talk at AI for the rest of us in London this fall. If you\u0026#39;re around there or thinking about going to that, stop by and say hello. And yeah, just non tech related. I\u0026#39;m also a Master [00:35:00] Gardener intern out of the University of Vermont.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:04] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e So if you have garden questions, you can go to the Ask a Master Gardener hotline. You probably have an extension locally to you if you\u0026#39;re in the U S. But yeah, so I hope if you are in a part of the world where gardening is possible, that your garden is lovely. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:22] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e You\u0026#39;re a master gardener.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:23] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e That is amazing. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:24] \u003cstrong\u003eMo McElaney:\u003c/strong\u003e Haven\u0026#39;t finished my certification yet, ~~but ~~\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:26] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e \u003cdel\u003eyou are\u003c/del\u003e you are, you\u0026#39;re closer to it than the rest of us. I assume I know I shouldn\u0026#39;t speak for Wesley and Jason, but I\u0026#39;m going to guess.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:36] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e All right, Matty. Let\u0026#39;s hear your checkouts. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:38] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, a couple. So one thing there\u0026#39;s a little bit of a theme here. So I\u0026#39;ve been getting a lot into weightlifting and working out over the last bit of time. And I can go on and on about that. And we\u0026#39;ll talk about that another time, but there\u0026#39;s a couple of things to check out.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:52] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e One is there\u0026#39;s this app that I like to do for keeping track of my lifting and it\u0026#39;s called heavy H E V Y. There\u0026#39;s a billion of them. And of course, [00:36:00] you\u0026#39;ll see all the ads for all the AI generated and stuff, but literally you just want to keep track of stuff. Along those lines, there\u0026#39;s this great trainer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:36:07] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e And her website is, she\u0026#39;s a beast. co and she has this awesome program. If you\u0026#39;re just getting started with lifting called couch to barbell, it\u0026#39;s the liftoff program, but what\u0026#39;s the greatest thing about it is there\u0026#39;s a discord. For members of her newsletter. So basically for seven bucks a month, which is well worth it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:36:23] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e I spent so much time trying to find a community of people to live because of accountability and to learn from and everything. And everyone was like, here\u0026#39;s an influencer. A lot of them can follow on Instagram. I\u0026#39;m like, that\u0026#39;s not a community. And my friend Dave Shackelford that I used to work with at Patriot duty, clued me into the lift cord from this, and it has been the most amazing way.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:36:42] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;ve got everybody gassing each other up. You have folks in there who have just started doing anything to people who are massively competitive Olympic lifters and all of this, and everyone. It is amazing together. So check it out. And then finally, the other thing I\u0026#39;ve been into lately, and I know I\u0026#39;m like a decade behind is fallout.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:36:59] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e So the fallout [00:37:00] TV show, if you haven\u0026#39;t seen it, check it out. It\u0026#39;s amazing. It got me hooked on the game. Because the lore is great. It\u0026#39;s quirky and funny. So anyway, check out\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:37:11] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e and everyone\u0026#39;s dude, we\u0026#39;ve been playing Fallout. Like we started playing fallout like 20 years ago. Where are you? I\u0026#39;m like, cool. Soon I will learn about Mario. Just kidding. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:37:17] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:37:17] \u003cstrong\u003eMatty Stratton:\u003c/strong\u003e I already know about Mario. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:37:21] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Also the fallout TV show is really good. And as an intro in terms of getting the, knowing what the scenario is for me, I only have one checkout and it\u0026#39;s a book that I finished it\u0026#39;s called, you\u0026#39;re not listening.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:37:35] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And the book is that I wanted to get it just to make sure that. I had all the techniques to stay engaged as a person with ADHD. There\u0026#39;s often a conversation where I check out in the middle. And this gives some really good techniques about how to stay engaged, what to listen for, what are the reasons for not being engaged how to re engage how to understand if someone is not being engaged and making sure.[00:38:00] \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:38:01] \u003cstrong\u003eWeslefy Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e There are techniques in which you can phrase a question and pose an idea where you can get the maximum amount of engagement, which I think is also very important. Once again, the book\u0026#39;s called you\u0026#39;re not listening by Kate Murphy. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:38:12] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Awesome. Yeah, I definitely need to add that to my list.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:38:14] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;ve got a few things here. I\u0026#39;ve got a couple of books. And then also I had mentioned that sort of new community type of event that\u0026#39;s happening locally. If you\u0026#39;re in the, what\u0026#39;s called the Colorado region. Cause I feel like it\u0026#39;s going to happen all over the place. You should check out wild spaces.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:38:29] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e That work. And or if you live in an area where you can get away from things maybe consider starting something similar. I think it\u0026#39;s a pretty neat idea, very creative. And the books that I have are from a friend. SRE advocate former colleague at Microsoft David Blank Edelman.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:38:46] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e He\u0026#39;s been a guest on our show a few times, but he just recently put out becoming an SRE and I\u0026#39;m I\u0026#39;d say about a third of the way through that. And it is really good. He\u0026#39;s very funny. He\u0026#39;s very smart. And all of that comes through in the book.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:38:58] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e He\u0026#39;s got a lot of [00:39:00] smart people that he\u0026#39;s talked to. So anyway, if you\u0026#39;re in the DevOps SRE space, I highly recommend it. The other book I have actually David recommended this to me. So thank you, David. If you\u0026#39;re listening. It\u0026#39;s called, you have not heard your favorite song. And this is from somebody written by somebody who formerly was at Spotify and really just talking about sort of the transition into the digital music world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:39:19] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I think a lot of us have feelings around that. And I know for myself I\u0026#39;m big into music, both listening and playing. And I haven\u0026#39;t gotten very far in this book, but I\u0026#39;m very curious to see what it does expose to me in terms of what it is you\u0026#39;re missing out there. I think that there\u0026#39;s, we all, I\u0026#39;m always coming across new music that I didn\u0026#39;t know about.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:39:36] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So I don\u0026#39;t have a lot of feedback on what the book\u0026#39;s going to tell me, but David says it\u0026#39;s great. So I\u0026#39;m going to trust him and I\u0026#39;m looking forward to reading it. And I think that\u0026#39;s it for me on checkouts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:39:45] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So anyway, thank you all for being here. Mo Maddy and Wesley, of course it\u0026#39;s been great. Usually PJ, when he\u0026#39;s on the show he\u0026#39;s out today both him and Mary, but usually at the end, PJ likes to take us out with a little [00:40:00] quote from a musician that is somewhat relevant or just feels like the right vibe for today Wesley tossed a few into chat for me here because we didn\u0026#39;t quite think about it ahead of time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:40:09] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m going to choose this one from John Lennon here that I like. For those of you who want to go out there and come up with something new to keep these community events, either floating as they are, or refactor them, like we said, or start something new.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:40:24] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I encourage you to find some creativity, whatever that takes to do that. And the quote from John Lennon is there\u0026#39;s nothing you can do that can\u0026#39;t be done. And with that, I am going to say goodbye. Thank you so much to everyone joinning us today and we\u0026#39;ll see you on the next episode of the community pulse.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:40:44] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Bye.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMo McElaney\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.contributor-covenant.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eContributor Covenant\u003c/a\u003e \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ePresented “Digital Discrimination: Cognitive Bias in Machine Learning (and LLMs!)“\u003ca href=\"https://pydata.org/vermont2024\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e at PyData Conf on July 29\u003c/a\u003e -  look out for the video!\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eSpeaking at \u003ca href=\"https://aifortherestofus.live/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAI for the Rest of Us Conf\u003c/a\u003e in London this fall\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.uvm.edu/extension/mastergardener/helpline\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAsk a Master Gardener Hotline\u003c/a\u003e!\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMatty Stratton\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.hevyapp.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHevy\u003c/a\u003e - lifting app\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.shesabeast.co/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eShe\u0026#39;s a Beast\u003c/a\u003e - great program Couch to Barbell; amazing discord for folks/community\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eFallout - the \u003ca href=\"https://fallout.bethesda.net/en\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003egame\u003c/a\u003e and the \u003ca href=\"https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12637874\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eshow\u003c/a\u003e!\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e[Devopsdays Chicago CFP](devopsdays.org/chicago) opens Aug 5!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WJ6MR2P?ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_SRV1JX89CDECDC3YMAD4\u0026ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_SRV1JX89CDECDC3YMAD4\u0026social_share=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_SRV1JX89CDECDC3YMAD4\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eYou’re Not Listening\u003c/a\u003e by Kate Murphy\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.wildspaces.work/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWild Spaces\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/becoming-sre/9781492090540/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBecoming SRE\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Have-Heard-Your-Favourite-Song/dp/191448715X\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eYou Have Not Heard Your Favorite Song: How Streaming Changes Music\u003c/a\u003e by Glenn McDonald\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork Photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@tylercallahan?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTyler Callahan\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@tylercallahan?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Matty Stratton and Mo McElaney.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Over the past few years, we’ve seen conferences ebb and flow. Some community-run conferences have evolved into new things, new ones have sprouted up while other annual favorites have sadly gone extinct. What goes into a community-led conference? How does someone get involved? Let’s take a look!","date_published":"2024-08-13T00:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/0d467b58-4799-4f1b-9c29-33bc4eb8dbe8.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":117660650,"duration_in_seconds":2941}]},{"id":"03719f6d-4350-4e0c-8ee1-cf7bc72ad714","title":"After Pulse: Bouncing from DevRel","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/89ap","content_text":"In this episode of After Pulse 89, the co-hosts—PJ Haggerty, Jason Hand, Mary Thengvall, and Wesley Faulkner—continue the conversation from the previous episode of Community Pulse, discussing the transition of DevRel professionals who move on to different roles. The focus of this episode is on the evolving landscape of DevRel, the shifting career trajectories of people in the field, and the complexities that come with leaving DevRel roles to pursue new challenges. The hosts reflect on the shared experiences and skills DevRel professionals carry with them into their new roles, including the ability to learn and adapt.\n\nCo-Hosts’ Reflections:\nPJ Haggerty starts the conversation by celebrating the return of Matt and Taylor to the podcast. He reflects on how Matt’s departure from DevRel has played out, noting that Matt is doing well in his current role. He shares his own thoughts on the question that often comes up for DevRel professionals: \"What happens after DevRel?\" PJ highlights that while many in DevRel are content with their work, it’s natural for people to face burnout, and he mentions how important it is to recognize when to move on.\n\nJason Hand adds that many people in DevRel often find themselves wondering what comes next when the \"light burns out.\" He shares his own perspective as someone who enjoys learning and feels that the skills developed in DevRel, like the ability to learn new things quickly, are incredibly valuable in any role, including product management. Jason emphasizes the importance of focusing not just on job titles but on skills and experiences—what a person brings to the table rather than the specific job title they’ve held.\n\nMary Thengvall talks about how, even when someone leaves DevRel, they often continue to apply the same skills they used in DevRel, especially when transitioning into product management or other fields. She emphasizes the idea that people in DevRel excel at things like product management tasks and skills, which can be leveraged in other roles. Mary encourages the audience to focus less on titles and more on the specific skills they bring to new roles, and she also mentions how this approach helps when looking for new opportunities.\n\nTransitioning Out of DevRel:\nWesley Faulkner discusses how DevRel professionals often bring a wealth of diverse experiences and skills to their roles. He points out that many people in DevRel, including himself, have backgrounds in fields like engineering, customer support, and even politics. Wesley stresses that these diverse experiences help professionals navigate the challenges they face in DevRel and provide valuable perspectives in leadership roles. However, he also acknowledges that many of these past experiences are difficult to communicate effectively in traditional job interviews, which can make transitioning to new roles more challenging.\n\nMary continues the discussion by highlighting how DevRel professionals are often misjudged in interviews due to the broad and sometimes vague nature of their roles. She discusses how one of her friends with experience in customer support, product management, and customer success had to downplay her job titles and focus more on her skills to find a new role. This idea of emphasizing \"skills over titles\" becomes a recurring theme throughout the conversation.\n\nReflections on the State of DevRel Today:\nPJ Haggerty points out the disconnect between what DevRel professionals actually do and how companies currently define the role. He shares his frustration with how DevRel professionals are expected to have deep technical experience in areas like Python, Ruby, and AI when many of them do not have formal training in those areas. PJ believes that the true value of DevRel professionals lies in their ability to educate, explain complex systems, and bridge gaps, not necessarily in having deep technical expertise in every language a company uses. He argues that AI companies and other tech companies need to better understand the core skills DevRel professionals offer.\n\nJason Hand chimes in with his own experiences working with developers at Datadog. He mentions how, in his current role, he’s helping engineering teams improve their communication skills, making them better presenters at conferences and user events. Jason expresses pride when a developer he worked with successfully presents a talk, even though the impact of his coaching is often invisible to the larger audience. This lack of visibility for the contributions of DevRel professionals is a recurring theme—many of their efforts are behind the scenes, making them hard to measure but still incredibly important.\n\nSkills Beyond Titles:\nWesley Faulkner highlights the difficulty in expressing the value of the diverse skills DevRel professionals have developed. He shares his own experiences, including his time as a product development engineer at AMD and his work in political campaigns, noting how these diverse experiences shape how he handles tough situations in DevRel. While these experiences are incredibly useful, they don’t always fit neatly into traditional job descriptions. Wesley reflects that DevRel professionals often end up performing roles that involve explaining complex concepts, handling high-pressure situations, and working across teams, but these skills are often undervalued in more conventional job roles.\n\nMary Thengvall echoes this sentiment, stressing that many DevRel professionals come to the role from \"sideways\" paths, bringing with them varied life experiences that make them uniquely equipped to handle the demands of DevRel. She highlights how people entering DevRel without this broader experience often lack the passion and historical context that more experienced DevRel professionals bring to the table. Without the context of the role’s evolution, it can be challenging for newer professionals to fully grasp the complexities of DevRel and to advocate for its continued importance.\n\nThe Importance of Leadership in DevRel:\nWesley discusses how the lack of senior leadership with traditional DevRel backgrounds can complicate the future of the field. He notes that while DevRel professionals bring valuable leadership qualities to the table, such as the ability to connect different departments and handle challenging situations, few of these professionals rise to senior leadership roles within their companies. Wesley argues that promoting more DevRel professionals into higher positions would help ensure that the value of DevRel is better understood and properly championed within organizations.\n\nMary agrees with Wesley, emphasizing the importance of continuing to mentor and support those in DevRel roles, even when they transition out of DevRel into other areas. She points out that people like Matt, who have transitioned from DevRel into product management, still stay connected with the DevRel community and support those who continue to work in the field.\n\nFinal Thoughts on Career Shifts and the Future of DevRel:\nThe episode concludes with PJ reiterating the value of being a \"jack of all trades\" in DevRel. He reminds the audience that while it’s often said that \"a jack of all trades is a master of none,\" there’s an important second half to the saying: \"but oftentimes better than a master of one.\" DevRel professionals are skilled at learning, adapting, and picking up new knowledge quickly, which makes them well-suited for a wide range of roles, even outside of DevRel.\nMary adds that the most important thing for DevRel professionals is to have a clear understanding of their skills and passions, so they can continue to thrive in whatever role they choose. Wesley echoes this sentiment, noting that DevRel professionals have valuable leadership skills that should be recognized and nurtured.\n\nKey Words:\nDevRel\nCareer Transition\nSkills vs Titles\nBurnout\nLeadership\nProduct Management\nLearning and Adaptation\nCommunity Engagement\nJob Market Disconnect\nJob Experience vs Skills\nNetworking and Mentorship\nCareer Growth\nHistorical Context\nJack of All Trades\n\nThemes:\nThe Evolving Role of DevRel Professionals:\n\n\nThe shifting expectations of DevRel and how people in the field bring diverse skills to roles that aren't always formally recognized as DevRel.\nThe difficulty of translating broad DevRel skills into conventional job titles and how this affects career progression.\n\n\nSkills Over Titles:\n\n\nEmphasizing skills and experience over job titles, and how this approach helps DevRel professionals thrive in new roles like product management or leadership positions.\nThe challenge of rebranding yourself and your skills when transitioning careers.\n\n\nBurnout and Career Shifts:\n\n\nThe impact of burnout on DevRel professionals and the natural progression toward other roles, including product management.\nThe importance of recognizing when it’s time for a change to avoid burnout and find new professional challenges.\n\n\nLeadership and Mentorship:\n\n\nThe need for more senior leadership within DevRel and the value of promoting experienced DevRel professionals to higher organizational roles.\nThe importance of mentorship and maintaining connections within the DevRel community, even when transitioning to other roles.\n\n\nHistorical Context and Passion for DevRel:\n\n\nThe disconnect between new and experienced professionals in DevRel, with the latter group often carrying a deeper understanding of the field’s evolution and the importance of advocating for its continued value.\nThe importance of retaining historical context in the development of DevRel to ensure its future relevance.\n\n\nValue of Being a \"Jack of All Trades\":\n\n\nEmbracing the breadth of knowledge DevRel professionals bring and how their versatility makes them valuable in many roles, despite the challenge of fitting into narrow job descriptions.\nTranscript\n\n\nTranscript\n\n[00:00:00] PJ Haggerty: That was a great episode. Really fantastic. Not just for the content, but I will say it's great because we hadn't seen Taylor and Matt on the podcast in a while. So it was really good to have them back. Especially because I think the last podcast we did with Matt was like, I'm leaving DevRel and this is what's happening.\n\n[00:00:16] PJ Haggerty: And then we got to see a couple of years later here, he's doing really well. So that's really good. DevRel then and now. Then and now. \n\n[00:00:23] Jason Hand: And I think we've all had, where \n\n[00:00:25] PJ Haggerty: Are they now? \n\n[00:00:26] Jason Hand: We've all had the thoughts, like what comes after, my, The light has burnt out for me in dev rel.\n\n[00:00:32] Jason Hand: What am I, what do I do next? So it was really easy to hear from them. \n\n[00:00:36] PJ Haggerty: And I think the most interesting point he made was, no, he's not really interested in coming back. He is completely happy and satisfied with the work that he's doing, which is fantastic.\n\n[00:00:46] Mary Thengvall: Absolutely. And I think it's always fascinating to see and to talk to people who are either thinking about leaving DevRel or have left DevRel to go, okay you've left the official DevRel [00:01:00] titles, but a lot of what you're doing is still the same work, right? It's the stuff that I, when you were in DevRel, I looked at you and went, Oh, you really excel at, And so it's cool to me \n\n[00:01:14] Mary Thengvall: but I think it's a cool thing to remember, because we do so many different things. In this space, if you have one piece that you're really good at, really passionate about, it is possible to take that and make that the core of a new position, right?\n\n[00:01:34] Mary Thengvall: Not only is it possible, but people thrive doing it. \n\n[00:01:37] Jason Hand: One of the things about most people who are in developer relations is that we are skilled at learning new things. And I think that's our greatest asset is that we are interested, just Matt was saying he's just like this hobbyist, like he'll just learn and dive in headfirst.\n\n[00:01:53] Jason Hand: I'm the same way. I've got way too many hobbies. Because I just, I'm a constant learner and I enjoy the process of learning. If there's a challenge, [00:02:00] I know I can get through it by just learning something, spending the time and investing in myself. And I'm trying to come to grips with something that I think a therapist or somebody told me along the way is like, when you get to a place where you're interviewing and you're trying to put yourself out there.\n\n[00:02:14] Jason Hand: You're not just a dev rel, you're not a thing. You are Jason, and they're hiring Jason and he's going to come with a lot of experience and he's got skills that he used to rely on. He's got skills that he has now, but the best thing that we might see on a piece of paper on my resume is that he is a constant learner.\n\n[00:02:32] Jason Hand: And so maybe one day I do want to be in product, even though I have zero real background in it, I think that hopefully they see through all that and be like, Oh, but that's Jason.\n\n[00:02:41] Jason Hand: And he, we know that he can, pull through. \n\n[00:02:43] Mary Thengvall: And the counter that I would make to that is you have zero, Official title of product manager experience. You have a ton of experience in product management, like tasks and skills and [00:03:00] those types of things. And there's a good friend of mine who's been looking for a new job for probably close to a year now and is struggling because she has customer support experience and product manager experience and customer success.\n\n[00:03:16] Mary Thengvall: Customer renewal type of experience. So if you look at her resume, she's bounced around between a lot of these different roles. And one of the things that she's found she has to do is put far less emphasis on these were my titles and far more emphasis on here are my skills. \n\n[00:03:33] Mary Thengvall: Past job experience from her resume entirely and leading with, look, here are my skills. And then you get to the bottom of that single page resume. And if you're interested in my specific job experience and titles, it links back to her LinkedIn. And so it's almost that kind of idea of okay, how do we emphasize here are the skills that I have here, the things that I thrive at doing [00:04:00] the environments that I thrive at.\n\n[00:04:02] Mary Thengvall: Most at and encouraged most by right and looking at it from that perspective, I think is a very different approach than many of us take, but can be so helpful in not just this economy, but when we're considering moving to a different type of position. \n\n[00:04:19] Wesley Faulkner: And it makes it hard for describing yourself, describing what you do, but also for others to do the intro, to find things that are good fit for you as well.\n\n[00:04:28] Wesley Faulkner: The saying, this person would be a great fit for this role. So I'm going to recommend them because I think we've talked about this before, they could say this person's a good person and they're good at what they do. And they do a little bit of everything, which does not fit with. Companies, the way that they advertise for jobs, they have these titles, they have these duties, and they're looking for the people who fit those, that specific set of requirements underneath each one of those titles.\n\n[00:04:53] Wesley Faulkner: And when, one of the things that we're good learners because we're. In that continuous cycle of learning [00:05:00] one, do one, teach one, right? That's the job. And so you're not only learning the thing, doing the thing, but you have to be skilled at explaining it. \n\n[00:05:09] Wesley Faulkner: If you are doing that constantly, there's almost nothing that you can't retain. And so you do that for years and then you have the pub quiz trivia and knowledge about technology, about development, about sales marketing and all the things around it, because that's what the job is.\n\n[00:05:26] Wesley Faulkner: And so it does make it difficult to just say I'm the square peg. And I will fit in this square hole. \n\n[00:05:34] PJ Haggerty: A good one. A good problem to have.\n\n[00:05:35] PJ Haggerty: Yeah. I think that kind of concept of the jack of all trades master of none. Like it's. It's true and not true. I think that when it goes back to, both what all three of you have just said, we're educators, but educators are educated. At least they should be, in the ideal situation.\n\n[00:05:51] PJ Haggerty: Educators are educated and that's why they're good at the things that they do. If I'm able to explain a process to someone, I'm able to explain that process. I can repeat the [00:06:00] process of explanation all that I want. \n\n[00:06:02] PJ Haggerty: And I was going to ask Taylor, but I decided to back off about layoffs and DevRel and hiring and interviewing right now. A lot of the places that are doing this are going in and saying Oh, you need to know, you need to have 80 years of experience doing Python and Ruby and AI and all of that.\n\n[00:06:18] PJ Haggerty: I don't need to actually be able to have any competency in any of those languages just because your product is written in it. What I need to do is have the ability to. Piece it all together and explain how to participate in it, how to use it, how to take advantage of your product, tool, API, whatever.\n\n[00:06:32] PJ Haggerty: And this is the big disconnect that's currently happening, I think. And why I think a lot of people are like, I'm going to leave DevRel because they're like, I don't have tons of places to be hired in the AI field. Very few of us who have been doing DevRel for a long time have had deep experience in AI.\n\n[00:06:49] PJ Haggerty: Where do these AI companies think they're going to hire people? They have to have a better understanding of how the job itself actually works. When you hire a marketer, you say you're good at marketing.\n\n[00:06:58] PJ Haggerty: When you hire a salesperson, you say you're good [00:07:00] at sales. When you hire someone in developer advocacy, you say you're good at engineering that you've never done before. That doesn't make sense. But if I say, I can educate them on how to use that should be what they're looking for.\n\n[00:07:10] PJ Haggerty: And that's the breakthrough I think we need to have. And we will stop hemorrhaging great DevRel folks. If we start hiring appropriately. \n\n[00:07:19] Jason Hand: There's always so much just debate. It feels like what developer relations is. And one thing that it definitely is, cause this is where I'm spending a good chunk of my energy, a data dog is working internally is working with our engineering team to help them prepare, all hands decks and make them better communicators.\n\n[00:07:38] Jason Hand: I mentioned dash the user conference that's coming up. I'm assigned to a couple of different. Presenters that are going to be speaking there and I'm their coach. I'm going to help them all along the way. They're already decent speakers, but I'm going to work with them, from the beginning to end.\n\n[00:07:54] Jason Hand: And it's going to be an amazing talk. And that's the relationship, that's developer relations. I'm working with developers [00:08:00] from, I can't mention the names just yet, but like some big name companies. And I'm, Lifting them up, and then where does that map, Matt kept saying things have to map to something with the business.\n\n[00:08:12] Jason Hand: It's a little harder to map that, but I do see, I do feel some pride when somebody that I worked with is now on screen or on stage and they freaking crush it, and not a lot of people know I influenced that. And that's hard because you can't put a metric to that.\n\n[00:08:27] Mary Thengvall: Also, it's something you don't want to brag about too loudly publicly. Because you don't wanna make that other person look bad and go \n\n[00:08:36] PJ Haggerty: you also don't wanna seem like it, you don't, you don't wanna seem like an asshole. Exactly. So I totally, yeah, I totally created the situation where so and so became a wonderful speaker. You're welcome. World , \n\n[00:08:45] Mary Thengvall: like exactly. Exactly. And so because of that, I think there's a lot of other things that we do really well that just aren't ever seen and are difficult to point to if we want to [00:09:00] maintain those relationships, \n\n[00:09:00] Wesley Faulkner: yeah, exactly. And most of us are career switchers who find themselves in. DevRel. And so not only are they learning new skills and doing this kind of integration with different departments, but they're bringing in a whole host of previous life experience that does help them.\n\n[00:09:16] Wesley Faulkner: That does enhance where they have their perspective on things, but then also doesn't necessarily come into context of what we talk about. For instance, I was a product development engineer for AMD for five and a half years, where I helped bring products to market. For OEM systems. And before that I did onsite deployments and emergency break fix for Dell.\n\n[00:09:37] Wesley Faulkner: And I worked there for six years. And so I was in front of the C level suite. Executives explaining the products and what went wrong and how we solved it. And coming up with a mitigation plan, that stuff doesn't come up in interviews. \n\n[00:09:50] Wesley Faulkner: It feels like it complicates the thing. I ran for city council of Austin, ran a whole campaign, created the whole and met with constituents and did all of the [00:10:00] stuff and the debates, all that stuff doesn't ever come up really. But. When I'm in those situations, when I'm trying to defuse a customer or a client that's having an issue when I'm taking Q and a after a talk and someone is wanting to complain about the company stance on a certain issue or how a feature is not created or that addresses their problem, those All come into play.\n\n[00:10:27] Wesley Faulkner: And, but it's hard to say and to say how valuable it is. And it's almost like when I did it, people notice things when something goes wrong and they get corrected, but they don't really notice the things that never become a problem. Absolutely. \n\n[00:10:42] Mary Thengvall: And this is something that we chatted with Matt and Taylor a little bit after the recording was done, but.\n\n[00:10:47] Mary Thengvall: Don't tell people about \n\n[00:10:47] PJ Haggerty: the secret \n\n[00:10:48] Mary Thengvall: tell them about the secret after posting. But Wesley, this goes back to your point that a lot of us who have been in the DevRel space for a while now got [00:11:00] here through a sideways path, right? We stumbled into this because of our other areas of experience.\n\n[00:11:07] Mary Thengvall: And I think that's one of the biggest issues that I'm starting to see right now. Like I have nothing against people cobbling together their own type of college resume and their own learning path to figure out, Hey I know people who do Debrel. I want to do Debrel. Can I do that straight out of college?\n\n[00:11:27] Mary Thengvall: That's fine. But the problem that I'm seeing is. Those of us who are more experienced who are getting tired of having to fight for What I do is important and here's explaining what I what my job is and doing it, you know in hard mode like taylor mentioned if all were Left with at this point is people who haven't had other roles don't have other job experience or coming into this as 22, 23 year old going, cool.\n\n[00:11:57] Mary Thengvall: I have my college degree and I now [00:12:00] know how community management works and how developer relations works and everything else. They're then trying to basically redefine DevRel without any of that. experience. \n\n[00:12:11] PJ Haggerty: Historical context. \n\n[00:12:12] Mary Thengvall: Well, \n\n[00:12:14] PJ Haggerty: and this goes to what Matt was talking about.\n\n[00:12:16] PJ Haggerty: Tired of fighting that fight and explaining what we do. If you come along and you don't have the history of what we've done, you have no desire to fight for what it is that we do or what this job is, you don't care about the definition. You don't, and I don't mean to dismiss people like that. I'm not trying to gatekeep, but honestly, you don't feel the passion.\n\n[00:12:34] PJ Haggerty: If you just came into the job, I was like, Define DevRel, and you're like, it's the job that I'm doing right now. If you don't like that, I'll go find a DevRel job somewhere else. Part of the want to keep doing this job is to keep redefining it, keep it evolving, and keep proving that there's a reason why we're about.\n\n[00:12:50] PJ Haggerty: But if you don't have the historical context, you don't know how to fight that fight. \n\n[00:12:54] Mary Thengvall: Yeah, \n\n[00:12:54] Wesley Faulkner: right. And the one way of preserving that historical context is promoting [00:13:00] leaders in dev rel to higher positions. Absolutely. To be able to not only make those calls, but have that influence to make those judgments about what direction the company should go in and also who.\n\n[00:13:09] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah. Who should be rewarded and what skills should also be reinforced so that it makes sense for you to keep developing those skills so that you can progress so that you can move up. And that's one of the things currently in this DevRel environment is that the senior leadership so few of them are from a traditional DevRel background.\n\n[00:13:29] Mary Thengvall: Mhm. Agreed. And I think that's such an important point, right? That if you are moving out of DevRel into other leadership positions, keeping an eye out for people who are in DevRel, right? Keeping an eye out for people who are in those roles. And I know Matt and I have talked about this before.\n\n[00:13:45] Mary Thengvall: This is something that he does, right? He is no longer in DevRel, but definitely continues to have those conversations, and continues to support people who are doing it because just because he doesn't want to have to fight for [00:14:00] that conversation anymore. \n\n[00:14:02] Mary Thengvall: It doesn't mean he doesn't have that context and experience to be able to help other people do it as well. \n\n[00:14:07] PJ Haggerty: I \n\n[00:14:08] Mary Thengvall: know. I do want to wrap it up in PJs. I know you normally wrap up with a quote, but you mentioned the after pulse, none.\n\n[00:14:16] Mary Thengvall: However, that's only half of the saying. And I think this is a really applicable time to bring up that other half. Because the full quote is actually a jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one. Know more, have more context, learn more quickly than a lot of people who have only that single deep knowledge of that one topic so something to keep in mind for all of us and we'll see you next time on the next community pulse Thanks for joining.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIn this episode of After Pulse 89, the co-hosts—PJ Haggerty, Jason Hand, Mary Thengvall, and Wesley Faulkner—continue the conversation from the previous episode of Community Pulse, discussing the transition of DevRel professionals who move on to different roles. The focus of this episode is on the evolving landscape of DevRel, the shifting career trajectories of people in the field, and the complexities that come with leaving DevRel roles to pursue new challenges. The hosts reflect on the shared experiences and skills DevRel professionals carry with them into their new roles, including the ability to learn and adapt.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCo-Hosts’ Reflections:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Haggerty starts the conversation by celebrating the return of Matt and Taylor to the podcast. He reflects on how Matt’s departure from DevRel has played out, noting that Matt is doing well in his current role. He shares his own thoughts on the question that often comes up for DevRel professionals: \u0026quot;What happens after DevRel?\u0026quot; PJ highlights that while many in DevRel are content with their work, it’s natural for people to face burnout, and he mentions how important it is to recognize when to move on.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand adds that many people in DevRel often find themselves wondering what comes next when the \u0026quot;light burns out.\u0026quot; He shares his own perspective as someone who enjoys learning and feels that the skills developed in DevRel, like the ability to learn new things quickly, are incredibly valuable in any role, including product management. Jason emphasizes the importance of focusing not just on job titles but on skills and experiences—what a person brings to the table rather than the specific job title they’ve held.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall talks about how, even when someone leaves DevRel, they often continue to apply the same skills they used in DevRel, especially when transitioning into product management or other fields. She emphasizes the idea that people in DevRel excel at things like product management tasks and skills, which can be leveraged in other roles. Mary encourages the audience to focus less on titles and more on the specific skills they bring to new roles, and she also mentions how this approach helps when looking for new opportunities.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTransitioning Out of DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner discusses how DevRel professionals often bring a wealth of diverse experiences and skills to their roles. He points out that many people in DevRel, including himself, have backgrounds in fields like engineering, customer support, and even politics. Wesley stresses that these diverse experiences help professionals navigate the challenges they face in DevRel and provide valuable perspectives in leadership roles. However, he also acknowledges that many of these past experiences are difficult to communicate effectively in traditional job interviews, which can make transitioning to new roles more challenging.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary continues the discussion by highlighting how DevRel professionals are often misjudged in interviews due to the broad and sometimes vague nature of their roles. She discusses how one of her friends with experience in customer support, product management, and customer success had to downplay her job titles and focus more on her skills to find a new role. This idea of emphasizing \u0026quot;skills over titles\u0026quot; becomes a recurring theme throughout the conversation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eReflections on the State of DevRel Today:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Haggerty points out the disconnect between what DevRel professionals actually do and how companies currently define the role. He shares his frustration with how DevRel professionals are expected to have deep technical experience in areas like Python, Ruby, and AI when many of them do not have formal training in those areas. PJ believes that the true value of DevRel professionals lies in their ability to educate, explain complex systems, and bridge gaps, not necessarily in having deep technical expertise in every language a company uses. He argues that AI companies and other tech companies need to better understand the core skills DevRel professionals offer.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand chimes in with his own experiences working with developers at Datadog. He mentions how, in his current role, he’s helping engineering teams improve their communication skills, making them better presenters at conferences and user events. Jason expresses pride when a developer he worked with successfully presents a talk, even though the impact of his coaching is often invisible to the larger audience. This lack of visibility for the contributions of DevRel professionals is a recurring theme—many of their efforts are behind the scenes, making them hard to measure but still incredibly important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSkills Beyond Titles:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner highlights the difficulty in expressing the value of the diverse skills DevRel professionals have developed. He shares his own experiences, including his time as a product development engineer at AMD and his work in political campaigns, noting how these diverse experiences shape how he handles tough situations in DevRel. While these experiences are incredibly useful, they don’t always fit neatly into traditional job descriptions. Wesley reflects that DevRel professionals often end up performing roles that involve explaining complex concepts, handling high-pressure situations, and working across teams, but these skills are often undervalued in more conventional job roles.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall echoes this sentiment, stressing that many DevRel professionals come to the role from \u0026quot;sideways\u0026quot; paths, bringing with them varied life experiences that make them uniquely equipped to handle the demands of DevRel. She highlights how people entering DevRel without this broader experience often lack the passion and historical context that more experienced DevRel professionals bring to the table. Without the context of the role’s evolution, it can be challenging for newer professionals to fully grasp the complexities of DevRel and to advocate for its continued importance.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Importance of Leadership in DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley discusses how the lack of senior leadership with traditional DevRel backgrounds can complicate the future of the field. He notes that while DevRel professionals bring valuable leadership qualities to the table, such as the ability to connect different departments and handle challenging situations, few of these professionals rise to senior leadership roles within their companies. Wesley argues that promoting more DevRel professionals into higher positions would help ensure that the value of DevRel is better understood and properly championed within organizations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary agrees with Wesley, emphasizing the importance of continuing to mentor and support those in DevRel roles, even when they transition out of DevRel into other areas. She points out that people like Matt, who have transitioned from DevRel into product management, still stay connected with the DevRel community and support those who continue to work in the field.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFinal Thoughts on Career Shifts and the Future of DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nThe episode concludes with PJ reiterating the value of being a \u0026quot;jack of all trades\u0026quot; in DevRel. He reminds the audience that while it’s often said that \u0026quot;a jack of all trades is a master of none,\u0026quot; there’s an important second half to the saying: \u0026quot;but oftentimes better than a master of one.\u0026quot; DevRel professionals are skilled at learning, adapting, and picking up new knowledge quickly, which makes them well-suited for a wide range of roles, even outside of DevRel.\u003cbr\u003e\nMary adds that the most important thing for DevRel professionals is to have a clear understanding of their skills and passions, so they can continue to thrive in whatever role they choose. Wesley echoes this sentiment, noting that DevRel professionals have valuable leadership skills that should be recognized and nurtured.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Words:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nDevRel\u003cbr\u003e\nCareer Transition\u003cbr\u003e\nSkills vs Titles\u003cbr\u003e\nBurnout\u003cbr\u003e\nLeadership\u003cbr\u003e\nProduct Management\u003cbr\u003e\nLearning and Adaptation\u003cbr\u003e\nCommunity Engagement\u003cbr\u003e\nJob Market Disconnect\u003cbr\u003e\nJob Experience vs Skills\u003cbr\u003e\nNetworking and Mentorship\u003cbr\u003e\nCareer Growth\u003cbr\u003e\nHistorical Context\u003cbr\u003e\nJack of All Trades\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThemes:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eThe Evolving Role of DevRel Professionals:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe shifting expectations of DevRel and how people in the field bring diverse skills to roles that aren\u0026#39;t always formally recognized as DevRel.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe difficulty of translating broad DevRel skills into conventional job titles and how this affects career progression.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSkills Over Titles:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eEmphasizing skills and experience over job titles, and how this approach helps DevRel professionals thrive in new roles like product management or leadership positions.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe challenge of rebranding yourself and your skills when transitioning careers.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBurnout and Career Shifts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe impact of burnout on DevRel professionals and the natural progression toward other roles, including product management.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe importance of recognizing when it’s time for a change to avoid burnout and find new professional challenges.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLeadership and Mentorship:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe need for more senior leadership within DevRel and the value of promoting experienced DevRel professionals to higher organizational roles.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe importance of mentorship and maintaining connections within the DevRel community, even when transitioning to other roles.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eHistorical Context and Passion for DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe disconnect between new and experienced professionals in DevRel, with the latter group often carrying a deeper understanding of the field’s evolution and the importance of advocating for its continued value.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe importance of retaining historical context in the development of DevRel to ensure its future relevance.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eValue of Being a \u0026quot;Jack of All Trades\u0026quot;:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eEmbracing the breadth of knowledge DevRel professionals bring and how their versatility makes them valuable in many roles, despite the challenge of fitting into narrow job descriptions.\nTranscript\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003ch3\u003eTranscript\u003c/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:00] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e That was a great episode. Really fantastic. Not just for the content, but I will say it\u0026#39;s great because we hadn\u0026#39;t seen Taylor and Matt on the podcast in a while. So it was really good to have them back. Especially because I think the last podcast we did with Matt was like, I\u0026#39;m leaving DevRel and this is what\u0026#39;s happening.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:16] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And then we got to see a couple of years later here, he\u0026#39;s doing really well. So that\u0026#39;s really good. DevRel then and now. Then and now. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:23] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think we\u0026#39;ve all had, where \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:25] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Are they now? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:26] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e We\u0026#39;ve all had the thoughts, like what comes after, my, The light has burnt out for me in dev rel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:32] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e What am I, what do I do next? So it was really easy to hear from them. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:36] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think the most interesting point he made was, no, he\u0026#39;s not really interested in coming back. He is completely happy and satisfied with the work that he\u0026#39;s doing, which is fantastic.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:46] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely. And I think it\u0026#39;s always fascinating to see and to talk to people who are either thinking about leaving DevRel or have left DevRel to go, okay you\u0026#39;ve left the official DevRel [00:01:00] titles, but a lot of what you\u0026#39;re doing is still the same work, right? It\u0026#39;s the stuff that I, when you were in DevRel, I looked at you and went, Oh, you really excel at, And so it\u0026#39;s cool to me \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:14] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e but I think it\u0026#39;s a cool thing to remember, because we do so many different things. In this space, if you have one piece that you\u0026#39;re really good at, really passionate about, it is possible to take that and make that the core of a new position, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:34] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Not only is it possible, but people thrive doing it. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:37] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the things about most people who are in developer relations is that we are skilled at learning new things. And I think that\u0026#39;s our greatest asset is that we are interested, just Matt was saying he\u0026#39;s just like this hobbyist, like he\u0026#39;ll just learn and dive in headfirst.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:53] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m the same way. I\u0026#39;ve got way too many hobbies. Because I just, I\u0026#39;m a constant learner and I enjoy the process of learning. If there\u0026#39;s a challenge, [00:02:00] I know I can get through it by just learning something, spending the time and investing in myself. And I\u0026#39;m trying to come to grips with something that I think a therapist or somebody told me along the way is like, when you get to a place where you\u0026#39;re interviewing and you\u0026#39;re trying to put yourself out there.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:14] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e You\u0026#39;re not just a dev rel, you\u0026#39;re not a thing. You are Jason, and they\u0026#39;re hiring Jason and he\u0026#39;s going to come with a lot of experience and he\u0026#39;s got skills that he used to rely on. He\u0026#39;s got skills that he has now, but the best thing that we might see on a piece of paper on my resume is that he is a constant learner.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:32] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And so maybe one day I do want to be in product, even though I have zero real background in it, I think that hopefully they see through all that and be like, Oh, but that\u0026#39;s Jason.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:41] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And he, we know that he can, pull through. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:43] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And the counter that I would make to that is you have zero, Official title of product manager experience. You have a ton of experience in product management, like tasks and skills and [00:03:00] those types of things. And there\u0026#39;s a good friend of mine who\u0026#39;s been looking for a new job for probably close to a year now and is struggling because she has customer support experience and product manager experience and customer success.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:16] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Customer renewal type of experience. So if you look at her resume, she\u0026#39;s bounced around between a lot of these different roles. And one of the things that she\u0026#39;s found she has to do is put far less emphasis on these were my titles and far more emphasis on here are my skills. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:33] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Past job experience from her resume entirely and leading with, look, here are my skills. And then you get to the bottom of that single page resume. And if you\u0026#39;re interested in my specific job experience and titles, it links back to her LinkedIn. And so it\u0026#39;s almost that kind of idea of okay, how do we emphasize here are the skills that I have here, the things that I thrive at doing [00:04:00] the environments that I thrive at.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:02] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Most at and encouraged most by right and looking at it from that perspective, I think is a very different approach than many of us take, but can be so helpful in not just this economy, but when we\u0026#39;re considering moving to a different type of position. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:19] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And it makes it hard for describing yourself, describing what you do, but also for others to do the intro, to find things that are good fit for you as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:28] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e The saying, this person would be a great fit for this role. So I\u0026#39;m going to recommend them because I think we\u0026#39;ve talked about this before, they could say this person\u0026#39;s a good person and they\u0026#39;re good at what they do. And they do a little bit of everything, which does not fit with. Companies, the way that they advertise for jobs, they have these titles, they have these duties, and they\u0026#39;re looking for the people who fit those, that specific set of requirements underneath each one of those titles.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:53] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And when, one of the things that we\u0026#39;re good learners because we\u0026#39;re. In that continuous cycle of learning [00:05:00] one, do one, teach one, right? That\u0026#39;s the job. And so you\u0026#39;re not only learning the thing, doing the thing, but you have to be skilled at explaining it. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:09] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e If you are doing that constantly, there\u0026#39;s almost nothing that you can\u0026#39;t retain. And so you do that for years and then you have the pub quiz trivia and knowledge about technology, about development, about sales marketing and all the things around it, because that\u0026#39;s what the job is.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:26] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And so it does make it difficult to just say I\u0026#39;m the square peg. And I will fit in this square hole. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:34] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e A good one. A good problem to have.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:35] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I think that kind of concept of the jack of all trades master of none. Like it\u0026#39;s. It\u0026#39;s true and not true. I think that when it goes back to, both what all three of you have just said, we\u0026#39;re educators, but educators are educated. At least they should be, in the ideal situation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:51] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Educators are educated and that\u0026#39;s why they\u0026#39;re good at the things that they do. If I\u0026#39;m able to explain a process to someone, I\u0026#39;m able to explain that process. I can repeat the [00:06:00] process of explanation all that I want. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:02] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And I was going to ask Taylor, but I decided to back off about layoffs and DevRel and hiring and interviewing right now. A lot of the places that are doing this are going in and saying Oh, you need to know, you need to have 80 years of experience doing Python and Ruby and AI and all of that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:18] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I don\u0026#39;t need to actually be able to have any competency in any of those languages just because your product is written in it. What I need to do is have the ability to. Piece it all together and explain how to participate in it, how to use it, how to take advantage of your product, tool, API, whatever.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:32] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And this is the big disconnect that\u0026#39;s currently happening, I think. And why I think a lot of people are like, I\u0026#39;m going to leave DevRel because they\u0026#39;re like, I don\u0026#39;t have tons of places to be hired in the AI field. Very few of us who have been doing DevRel for a long time have had deep experience in AI.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:49] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Where do these AI companies think they\u0026#39;re going to hire people? They have to have a better understanding of how the job itself actually works. When you hire a marketer, you say you\u0026#39;re good at marketing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:58] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e When you hire a salesperson, you say you\u0026#39;re good [00:07:00] at sales. When you hire someone in developer advocacy, you say you\u0026#39;re good at engineering that you\u0026#39;ve never done before. That doesn\u0026#39;t make sense. But if I say, I can educate them on how to use that should be what they\u0026#39;re looking for.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:10] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And that\u0026#39;s the breakthrough I think we need to have. And we will stop hemorrhaging great DevRel folks. If we start hiring appropriately. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:19] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e There\u0026#39;s always so much just debate. It feels like what developer relations is. And one thing that it definitely is, cause this is where I\u0026#39;m spending a good chunk of my energy, a data dog is working internally is working with our engineering team to help them prepare, all hands decks and make them better communicators.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:38] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I mentioned dash the user conference that\u0026#39;s coming up. I\u0026#39;m assigned to a couple of different. Presenters that are going to be speaking there and I\u0026#39;m their coach. I\u0026#39;m going to help them all along the way. They\u0026#39;re already decent speakers, but I\u0026#39;m going to work with them, from the beginning to end.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:54] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And it\u0026#39;s going to be an amazing talk. And that\u0026#39;s the relationship, that\u0026#39;s developer relations. I\u0026#39;m working with developers [00:08:00] from, I can\u0026#39;t mention the names just yet, but like some big name companies. And I\u0026#39;m, Lifting them up, and then where does that map, Matt kept saying things have to map to something with the business.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:12] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s a little harder to map that, but I do see, I do feel some pride when somebody that I worked with is now on screen or on stage and they freaking crush it, and not a lot of people know I influenced that. And that\u0026#39;s hard because you can\u0026#39;t put a metric to that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:27] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Also, it\u0026#39;s something you don\u0026#39;t want to brag about too loudly publicly. Because you don\u0026#39;t wanna make that other person look bad and go \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:36] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e you also don\u0026#39;t wanna seem like it, you don\u0026#39;t, you don\u0026#39;t wanna seem like an asshole. Exactly. So I totally, yeah, I totally created the situation where so and so became a wonderful speaker. You\u0026#39;re welcome. World , \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:45] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e like exactly. Exactly. And so because of that, I think there\u0026#39;s a lot of other things that we do really well that just aren\u0026#39;t ever seen and are difficult to point to if we want to [00:09:00] maintain those relationships, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:00] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e yeah, exactly. And most of us are career switchers who find themselves in. DevRel. And so not only are they learning new skills and doing this kind of integration with different departments, but they\u0026#39;re bringing in a whole host of previous life experience that does help them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:16] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e That does enhance where they have their perspective on things, but then also doesn\u0026#39;t necessarily come into context of what we talk about. For instance, I was a product development engineer for AMD for five and a half years, where I helped bring products to market. For OEM systems. And before that I did onsite deployments and emergency break fix for Dell.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:37] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And I worked there for six years. And so I was in front of the C level suite. Executives explaining the products and what went wrong and how we solved it. And coming up with a mitigation plan, that stuff doesn\u0026#39;t come up in interviews. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:50] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e It feels like it complicates the thing. I ran for city council of Austin, ran a whole campaign, created the whole and met with constituents and did all of the [00:10:00] stuff and the debates, all that stuff doesn\u0026#39;t ever come up really. But. When I\u0026#39;m in those situations, when I\u0026#39;m trying to defuse a customer or a client that\u0026#39;s having an issue when I\u0026#39;m taking Q and a after a talk and someone is wanting to complain about the company stance on a certain issue or how a feature is not created or that addresses their problem, those All come into play.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:27] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And, but it\u0026#39;s hard to say and to say how valuable it is. And it\u0026#39;s almost like when I did it, people notice things when something goes wrong and they get corrected, but they don\u0026#39;t really notice the things that never become a problem. Absolutely. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:42] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And this is something that we chatted with Matt and Taylor a little bit after the recording was done, \u003cdel\u003ebut.\u003c/del\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:47] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e \u003cdel\u003eDon\u0026#39;t tell people about\u003c/del\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:47] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e the secret \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:48] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e tell them about the secret after posting. But Wesley, this goes back to your point that a lot of us who have been in the DevRel space for a while now got [00:11:00] here through a sideways path, right? We stumbled into this because of our other areas of experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:07] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think that\u0026#39;s one of the biggest issues that I\u0026#39;m starting to see right now. Like I have nothing against people cobbling together their own type of college resume and their own learning path to figure out, Hey I know people who do Debrel. I want to do Debrel. Can I do that straight out of college?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:27] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e That\u0026#39;s fine. But the problem that I\u0026#39;m seeing is. Those of us who are more experienced who are getting tired of having to fight for What I do is important and here\u0026#39;s explaining what I what my job is and doing it, you know in hard mode like taylor mentioned if all were Left with at this point is people who haven\u0026#39;t had other roles don\u0026#39;t have other job experience or coming into this as 22, 23 year old going, cool.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:57] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e I have my college degree and I now [00:12:00] know how community management works and how developer relations works and everything else. They\u0026#39;re then trying to basically redefine DevRel without any of that. experience. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:11] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Historical context. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:12] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:14] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e and this goes to what Matt was talking about.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:16] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Tired of fighting that fight and explaining what we do. If you come along and you don\u0026#39;t have the history of what we\u0026#39;ve done, you have no desire to fight for what it is that we do or what this job is, you don\u0026#39;t care about the definition. You don\u0026#39;t, and I don\u0026#39;t mean to dismiss people like that. I\u0026#39;m not trying to gatekeep, but honestly, you don\u0026#39;t feel the passion.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:34] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e If you just came into the job, I was like, Define DevRel, and you\u0026#39;re like, it\u0026#39;s the job that I\u0026#39;m doing right now. If you don\u0026#39;t like that, I\u0026#39;ll go find a DevRel job somewhere else. Part of the want to keep doing this job is to keep redefining it, keep it evolving, and keep proving that there\u0026#39;s a reason why we\u0026#39;re about.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:50] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e But if you don\u0026#39;t have the historical context, you don\u0026#39;t know how to fight that fight. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:54] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:54] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e right. And the one way of preserving that historical context is promoting [00:13:00] leaders in dev rel to higher positions. Absolutely. To be able to not only make those calls, but have that influence to make those judgments about what direction the company should go in and also who.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:09] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Who should be rewarded and what skills should also be reinforced so that it makes sense for you to keep developing those skills so that you can progress so that you can move up. And that\u0026#39;s one of the things currently in this DevRel environment is that the senior leadership so few of them are from a traditional DevRel background.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:29] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Mhm. Agreed. And I think that\u0026#39;s such an important point, right? That if you are moving out of DevRel into other leadership positions, keeping an eye out for people who are in DevRel, right? Keeping an eye out for people who are in those roles. And I know Matt and I have talked about this before.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:45] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e This is something that he does, right? He is no longer in DevRel, but definitely continues to have those conversations, and continues to support people who are doing it because just because he doesn\u0026#39;t want to have to fight for [00:14:00] that conversation anymore. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:02] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e It doesn\u0026#39;t mean he doesn\u0026#39;t have that context and experience to be able to help other people do it as well. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:07] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:08] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e know. I do want to wrap it up in PJs. I know you normally wrap up with a quote, but you mentioned the after pulse, none.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:16] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e However, that\u0026#39;s only half of the saying. And I think this is a really applicable time to bring up that other half. Because the full quote is actually a jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one. Know more, have more context, learn more quickly than a lot of people who have only that single deep knowledge of that one topic so something to keep in mind for all of us and we\u0026#39;ll see you next time on the next community pulse Thanks for joining.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"This conversation follows up on our discussion about the noteworthy changes in Developer Relations over recent years and how many of our friends and colleagues have chosen to leverage their DevRel skills in new and exciting ways.","date_published":"2024-05-21T05:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/03719f6d-4350-4e0c-8ee1-cf7bc72ad714.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":17922859,"duration_in_seconds":1120}]},{"id":"d21ed84a-99df-4325-8da6-99901e952dfd","title":"Bouncing from DevRel (Ep 89)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/89-bouncing-from-devrel","content_text":"In this episode, the hosts discuss the evolving career paths of Developer Relations (DevRel) professionals, focusing on those who have transitioned out of DevRel or are contemplating such a move. Co-hosts PJ Haggerty, Mary Thengvall, Wesley Faulkner, and Jason Hand engage with guests Taylor Barnett-Torabi and Matt Broberg, who share their experiences with leaving DevRel and exploring new roles. The episode touches on themes like career shifts, identity, burnout, and the skills that are transferable to new positions, particularly in product management.\n\nGuest Introductions:\nTaylor Barnett-Torabi reflects on her nine years in DevRel, with roles spanning product marketing, support, and engineering. After a recent layoff, she is now exploring product management roles, particularly those involving external developers.\nMatt Broberg, with 15 years of experience, shifted from DevRel to product management at Target, citing personal reasons like starting a family and the exhaustion from constant travel. He discusses his transition into a more structured product management role where he found more clarity and stability.\n\nCo-Hosts’ Perspectives:\nPJ Haggerty opens the discussion by noting that the definition of DevRel has always been fluid and constantly evolving. He reflects on how many professionals in DevRel are required to wear multiple hats, balancing technical work, marketing, sales, and community engagement. For many, this lack of clarity in job expectations leads to burnout. PJ recognizes that DevRel professionals are often caught between the pressures of representing their companies, managing community relationships, and working with other departments, which can make the role unsustainable.\n\nMary Thengvall adds to the conversation, discussing the challenges of defining clear DevRel roles. She explains that with such a wide range of expectations, professionals can feel disconnected from their core mission. Mary encourages DevRel professionals to think about their career trajectory and how they want their job to align with their personal life and passions. She also underscores the importance of self-awareness and recognizing when it's time for a change, highlighting that many DevRel professionals possess transferable skills that can help them pivot to roles like product management.\n\nWesley Faulkner comments on the evolving nature of DevRel and the burnout many experience, especially given the expectations that come with travel, content creation, and event planning. He shares his perspective that, as the industry matures, many DevRel professionals may feel they have \"graduated\" from the role and are ready for a new challenge. Wesley echoes the sentiment that DevRel professionals may naturally move into product management or similar positions due to their deep involvement with engineering teams and the product development process.\n\nJason Hand brings his unique perspective as someone who has also been part of the DevRel space for years. He highlights that many people in DevRel, himself included, end up working more closely with product teams than marketing teams, which often leads to a natural progression toward product management. Jason adds that, in his own experience, the role of DevRel can be exhilarating but exhausting. He acknowledges the ups and downs, including the excitement of community building and the frustration that can come with trying to balance so many roles within one job.\n\nJason also provides a thoughtful commentary on the shifting expectations of the DevRel community. He shares his personal experiences with burnout from events like DevOpsDays Rockies, where he was involved in organizing and noticed the increasing complexity and demands of running large-scale community events. For Jason, this evolution mirrored his growing awareness that DevRel, as it was previously structured, wasn’t sustainable long-term. He is now seeking a role that aligns with his current life stage, acknowledging that the changing landscape of DevRel has influenced his own career trajectory.\n\nTransitioning Out of DevRel:\nMatt’s Journey: Matt’s transition from DevRel was rooted in a personal desire for less travel and more stability after starting a family. He also noted that DevRel, which often involves explaining the role to others, became less appealing. The constant juggling of multiple responsibilities without a clear focus was exhausting. Moving into product management, where the role is more defined, gave Matt the clarity and focus he sought. He explains that product management, while still requiring cross-functional collaboration, allowed him to focus on building and scaling products rather than explaining what he did all the time.\n\nTaylor’s Journey: Taylor, after a layoff, reflected on her long-term career goals and concluded that DevRel was not something she wanted to do indefinitely. She had already worn many hats—product marketing, support, and product management—which led her to explore product management as a career option. Taylor admits that transitioning away from DevRel was a challenging decision, but after engaging in various product roles, she realized that she was already performing the duties of a PM without the official title. Her journey also highlighted the need to redefine what success looks like in a new role, which was a common theme throughout the episode.\n\nCo-Hosts’ Views on Career Transitions:\nWesley emphasizes the importance of knowing what parts of DevRel you excel at and how that can guide a future career shift. He mentions that many DevRel professionals already possess a solid understanding of product development, community engagement, and customer feedback—all skills that translate well into roles like product management or engineering.\n\nMary agrees and discusses the importance of defining your boundaries and expectations when considering a career shift. She acknowledges that DevRel professionals may want more structure and clarity in their roles, which is often found in product management or engineering.\n\nPJ reflects on the ever-changing nature of job descriptions in DevRel. He acknowledges that the role is often misdefined, leading to confusion about what DevRel actually entails. PJ stresses the importance of setting clear parameters for oneself when looking to transition into another role and maintaining transparency during the interview process. He encourages listeners to focus on their strengths and communicate their career goals clearly to employers.\n\nThe Role of Networking and Relationships: Both Matt and Taylor emphasize the value of networking and building relationships throughout their careers. Taylor talks about the importance of leveraging her network, including people who had successfully transitioned into product management, to gain insight into the process. She also mentions that her personal website, where she outlined her career goals and what she was looking for, helped clarify her intentions to potential employers.\n\nCo-Hosts’ Takeaways:\nWesley emphasizes the need for professionals to assess their skills, passions, and long-term career goals. He encourages those considering a career shift to find roles that align with their interests and offer the opportunity for growth.\n\nJason adds that, for many DevRel professionals, the transition to product management feels like a natural evolution due to the similarities between the roles. He notes that despite the changes, he still finds the core of DevRel—community engagement and helping developers—appealing, and that the landscape continues to shift, making it important for individuals to adapt accordingly.\n\nFinal Thoughts on Returning to DevRel: As the episode wraps up, Matt shares that, for now, he is content in his product management role and would not return to DevRel, even if presented with a job offer. However, he acknowledges that roles within DevRel vary greatly, and he wouldn't rule out returning if the right opportunity arose. Taylor, meanwhile, is open to returning to DevRel but only if the role is a better fit for her personal and professional goals, including avoiding burnout.\nConclusion: The episode concludes with a conversation about how DevRel professionals are increasingly taking control of their career trajectories. They are setting clearer boundaries, exploring roles outside of DevRel, and finding new ways to apply their skills in product management, engineering, and other fields. The key takeaway is the importance of understanding personal goals, being clear about what you want, and using the skills honed in DevRel to explore new and fulfilling career paths.\n\nKey Words and Themes:\nKeywords:\nDevRel\nProduct Management (PM)\nCareer Transition\nBurnout\nRole Clarity\nSelf-Awareness\nNetworking\nProduct Marketing\nSkills Transfer\nCommunity Building\nJob Titles\nTravel\nWork-Life Balance\nPersonal Motivation\nIdentity Shift\n\nThemes:\n\n\nThe Evolution and Ambiguity of DevRel Roles:\n\n\nThe constantly changing expectations and definitions of DevRel roles, which contribute to career shifts.\nThe importance of clarity in defining DevRel responsibilities to avoid burnout.\n\nBurnout and Work-Life Balance:\n\n\nHow burnout, especially from constant travel and shifting roles, leads DevRel professionals to explore other career opportunities.\nThe impact of personal life changes (e.g., starting a family) on career decisions.\n\nTransferable Skills from DevRel:\n\n\nThe value of skills learned in DevRel, such as community engagement, cross-team collaboration, and product feedback integration, which can be applied to other roles like product management and marketing.\n\nCareer Clarity and Self-Awareness:\n\n\nThe importance of understanding personal strengths and passions to make a career transition successful.\nSetting clear expectations during job searches and being transparent about job preferences.\n\nThe Role of Networking and Mentorship:\n\n\nLeveraging relationships built during a DevRel career to facilitate career transitions.\nThe importance of mentorship and advice from others who have made similar career shifts.\n\nDefining Your Career Path:\n\n\nHow professionals can shape their career paths by focusing on what they truly enjoy and aligning that with the right opportunities.\nThe challenge of transitioning from generalist roles to more specialized positions and the need for clear career goals.\n\nThe Changing Nature of Work:\n\n\nThe growing need for roles to provide clarity, sustainability, and alignment with personal goals.\nThe influence of remote work, COVID-19, and evolving expectations on job satisfaction and career transitions.\n\n\n\nQuote: “The message I’m sending to myself: I can’t change the world until I change myself first” - Kendrick Lamar\n\nCheckouts\nTaylor Barnett-Torabi\n\n\nRange by David Epstein \n\n\nMatt Broberg\n\n\nADRs or documenting decisions as a thing™ – Any Decision Record (formally Architectural)\nIf you’re looking at PM roles, The Product Manager Interview by Lewis C. Lin helped me get my footing\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nHow Teams Can Skip the Drama and Embrace Healthy Conflict with Amy Gallo | SXSW 2024\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nDASH - 2024\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nFrank Turner’s latest album - Undefeated\nGary Clark Jr - JPEG RAW\nGeeky Jerseys\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nThe Humans by Matt Haig\nContributor Covenant code of conduct - they’re working on v3 of the code of conduct and want feedback on how community builders have implemented CoCs in the past. Take the survey to help out!\n\n\nPhoto by Mantas Hesthaven on Unsplash\n\nTranscript\n\n[00:00:00] PJ Haggerty: Developer Relations has gone through quite a few changes over the last few years. Along their journey, they moved away from DevRel, but they still use those abilities in new ways. So what is it like when you bounce from DevRel?\n\n[00:00:19] Mary Thengvall: To talk us through this career progression, we have two amazing guests with us today. One of whom has moved on from DevRel and one who's been considering it. Taylor and Matt, would you mind introducing yourselves? \n\n[00:00:32] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Yeah. So hi, I'm Taylor Barnett Torabi. I have been in tech startups for about 10 years now for starting in engineering.\n\n[00:00:40] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: And then about the last nine years, I've been in more dev rel roles, often more senior developer advocate roles, and those have looked at all developer focused startups for the most part, four different ones over the last nine years, a large part of my focus had been bridging that gap between developers and in the [00:01:00] community, and I wore a lot of different hats.\n\n[00:01:02] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: A lot of my exploration of where I want to go next has been exploring those different hats and which one might be a good fit for the future. \n\n[00:01:11] Mary Thengvall: Awesome. Thanks so much for being here. \n\n[00:01:13] Matt Broberg: Hey friends, Matt Broberg. I am a director of product management at Target.\n\n[00:01:19] Matt Broberg: I'm not representing them at all here. This is purely a community connection point for me. I am focused on cloud infrastructure for a large retailer and it's public and private cloud. \n\n[00:01:30] Matt Broberg: All the infrastructure stuff I've been doing for about 15 years now. Started in tech support. Got into engineering, bopped into marketing. Once I realized I needed to talk to people more and eventually through the startups and different phases of life, I landed in product because it seemed like a nice in between that we'll get into more.\n\n[00:01:52] Wesley Faulkner: Thank you. It's awesome to have both of you here. The first question is related to your journey to where you are, Matt, you [00:02:00] alluded to bouncing around and changing. My question is. What would you say would be the, all of the factors that caused you to consider leaving developer relations? You mentioned some environment, personal skills.\n\n[00:02:14] Wesley Faulkner: Is it, how much of it was internal? How much of it was external? Could you just tell us a little bit more about that? \n\n[00:02:19] Matt Broberg: Sure. Sure. Yeah. The leaving dev rel framing of it is an interesting one to me because I don't know if it was a result of goals I had or just or actually really intentional and I didn't.\n\n[00:02:32] Matt Broberg: Tell myself that, but I think at the point where I was making a decision, where to shift, I noticed two things in my life that weren't working anymore, one the travel and commitment of that was inherent to developer advocacy. If you're going to be a strong leader there, you may be on a plane at any moment and you certainly will be going somewhere or connecting with someone in person at least once a month at a minimum is what I found.\n\n[00:02:59] Matt Broberg: [00:03:00] And I wanted after COVID to be a real, wild time for all of us to put it way broadly, very quickly. But a moment of reflection where I realized I didn't want to do that anymore. And personally, my. My partner and I decided to start having kids. And as soon as I thought about my job and that intersection, I'm like, absolutely not.\n\n[00:03:25] Matt Broberg: And then it was a question of skills. Like I, the thing that was absolutely at the root of it. One of the many root causes is, as you could say, that I spent so much time in DevRel explaining what my job was and what my job wasn't, as opposed to just doing my damn job. And I was really sick of that.\n\n[00:03:44] Matt Broberg: Ironically, I still do a good bit of that in product, but it just feels so simple comparatively, there's only one or two jobs they expect, not 15. So I think it comes down to clarity of role family and just needing a change in that way. [00:04:00] Yeah. \n\n[00:04:00] Wesley Faulkner: Taylor, what caused you to question the direction that you want to take? \n\n[00:04:04] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Yeah. I went through a layoff in March. And so it was like this time for me to question what's next. I had always considered it. Leaving DevRel for something else over a longer period of time, I didn't think DevRe lnecessarily for me was Something I was going to do for, 15 20 years straight I knew I was committed to spending a really long time there I had this weird goal of 10 years, potentially almost 10 years I just saw so many folks burn out over the years and was like, I want to do this in a sustainable way that I can do this for many years to come.\n\n[00:04:42] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Not to say that, that hasn't really changed. For me, more was about thinking of all the different hats that I had been wearing. Over the last nine years, product marketing, even a little bit of support, worked with the engineering teams on different things, like all the [00:05:00] different ones, working with sales.\n\n[00:05:01] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Like I just, I'd been, I'd worked with pretty much every single team there was. And then at times I was like a technical product marketer, yeah, sure. I can write some copy if that's what is needed or whatever that thing was. Including for me, that was product management. Last year had an experience where I was basically the PM for a new API, he was taking our internal API, making it public and all the work I did from Ideation through launching it, it was PM work.\n\n[00:05:33] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: And it took me a little bit to accept that yeah, I was the PM for that. We didn't have PMs as a formal role in my last company. Often in the absence of a role, somebody steps in and does that. But also, I felt like the type of developer advocacy that I had been practicing and that I'd been selling companies on when they hired me was.\n\n[00:05:52] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Listening to users, figuring out ways that we could bring that feedback into the company and actually build [00:06:00] better products from it along with all the other traditional, developer relations type activities outside of that. And I feel like doing that, I realized. I'd been doing it on hard mode, doing it from a devil role, often in my case, sitting under marketing, which I have no issue with \n\n[00:06:19] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: it was actually one of the things I care pretty much the least about. It just made all of that really hard. And so it really gave me like, okay, what if I actually tried to do a product from like an actual product org. In a PM role. And that's what I've really been exploring.\n\n[00:06:40] Matt Broberg: That's a, I loved hearing that Taylor in particular, cause I think you're hitting on something that I hope will help others think through their own career journeys a little differently of differentiating what's often smooshed together, like your job title. And the presumed career track of that versus your skills, your job skills, if you want to call [00:07:00] it.\n\n[00:07:00] Matt Broberg: And that skill tree that you are working towards mastery and some expertise and where is it transposable to different job titles than before versus like really specific. A lot of what we do in DevRel is incredibly flexible because it's not been around for a while. So that means there are other places we must be able to map to because there's obviously value to the business.\n\n[00:07:26] PJ Haggerty: Yeah. I think Matt, you bring up a good point too, when it comes to the mapping to the business idea a lot of times and going back to what you were saying about constantly explaining what it is that we do and Taylor adding to the fact that what do we do? We do everything. There's that issue of like, When, when I first started DevRel, there was no definition.\n\n[00:07:42] PJ Haggerty: Then it was like, it's a marketing definition. Then it's a pre-sales definition. Then it's a product and engineering definition. And it's constantly changing and you can't really have the level of stability that you might desire. \n\n[00:07:53] PJ Haggerty: Makes it less desirable, especially when you have a family and Taylor, you mentioned the burnout factor and the instability lens to the fact [00:08:00] that, you're going to burn out because you're constantly doing so many different things, but where did you see where, the intersection of, Oh, I realized that while I'm doing DevRel, my title might be DevAdvocate, but I'm actually like.\n\n[00:08:13] PJ Haggerty: a 75 percent of the time product manager. Like when do you say, all right, I realize I'm not doing DevRel anymore. Maybe I need to look at something different. Like when did the light bulb go off? \n\n[00:08:24] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Part of it is people have actually brought it up to me probably for the last six, seven years.\n\n[00:08:30] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: So it's always been there. It was like, I've had managers who have been like, have you ever thought about doing a product? I'm like, yeah, but I'm working in a startup that does not have that as a role. And maybe sometimes was not always kind to the idea of having PMs maybe cause of bad past experiences or for various different reasons, so it pushed me away from it I knew I would have to potentially leave a company to do it basically And then the other thing, yeah, so yeah, managers, people on the community, various, [00:09:00] I've had many people ask me about doing, and I always push it off, maybe down, down the line.\n\n[00:09:05] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Other people were recognizing it, but it took me longer, I think, to recognize it for myself. So there, there was that. \n\n[00:09:13] PJ Haggerty: Sometimes there's that level of self acceptance that we push others. No, I'm a developer advocate. I would never do such a thing. And finally realized, oh, but it is what I do.\n\n[00:09:21] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Yeah. And what you said about the roles constantly changing, but at the end of the day, my goals had not changed. I still wanted to help build technical products and relationships with users that developers love and want to use and pay money for and make us all successful. And, with the definition constantly changing, maybe there was a different place for me to achieve that same goal with a different title.\n\n[00:09:50] Jason Hand: I think Mary's Mary and PJ are much better at going back into the archives of community pulse episodes and like retrieving different conversations we've had, but some of this is [00:10:00] definitely bringing back some memories of People who have transitioned on to other things.\n\n[00:10:04] Jason Hand: And it seems like products are not always, but it is common for a lot of people in developer relations. I know for me that was a direction I felt like I might be heading in. And a lot of that was because I, A lot of times, worked with the product team more than anybody else, other than the engineers.\n\n[00:10:20] Jason Hand: I wasn't really answering to marketing, I wasn't answering to sales. I loved sort of the building process and sitting next to the engineers and just digging into the technical stuff more than the things that were exposed to me with the marketing and sales types of things. \n\n[00:10:34] PJ Haggerty: You mentioned Jason, because I would actually be curious about people who have left DevRel and maybe, hit us up on socials or, send us a message or whatever. But if you've left DevRel, did you leave for engineering or did you leave for marketing or did you leave for product? Those seem to be the three answers.\n\n[00:10:47] Jason Hand: Yeah. \n\n[00:10:47] PJ Haggerty: Did you leave to go start your own company? \n\n[00:10:49] Jason Hand: And a lot of it I think just depends on where you came from. Like some people, we've been burned or we've been turned off to certain departments because of like maybe a bad manager or just, things just weren't [00:11:00] great.\n\n[00:11:00] Jason Hand: And also we've been turned on to things, I've been around some really good PMs and Oh, actually it looks interesting to me. And I think I have the baseline skills, but anyway, we, our minds wander into all kinds of things that we could be doing that could pull us away from DevRel.\n\n[00:11:12] Jason Hand: And I think the question comes back to me is. But is that still core to who I am? Would I consider coming back if I was in a better situation? Maybe the situation was what drove me to switch. It wasn't necessary that, Matt, you're exactly right. Like I don't want to travel as much anymore.\n\n[00:11:28] Jason Hand: Like I can't do it the hard mode. Like you were saying, Taylor, that's exactly what I was doing for so long and then burnt out and then COVID came and wiped the slate clean on like how we do this DevRel stuff. But I still feel myself coming back to it. So I'll start with you, Matt. Sounds like you're loving what you're doing. So probably a better situation, like mentally and physically and just balanced and that kind of thing. But would you come back to develop developer relations? \n\n[00:11:51] Matt Broberg: At the moment, this is probably the first time in my career. I would not consider another job offer at the moment.\n\n[00:11:58] Matt Broberg: I think there are a lot of factors [00:12:00] here, but the biggest one being, let's be honest, a little bit of dumb luck. Like I joined a company that is local to me. So I get local connection, which was important to me next. And they are at a stage of evolving a practice that despite not having the title as much as other people I work with, I am well read on it.\n\n[00:12:22] Matt Broberg: Not to toot my own horn, but I go deep on something if I'm going to invest in it, especially for career. So I've read probably 20, 30 of the essential product management books. I follow the podcasts. I've gotten to know that community of an ecosystem and I can represent it well. And we happen to be adopting stuff that I'm very familiar with.\n\n[00:12:41] Matt Broberg: And I've, then, been able to be really influential pretty quickly relative to people who have been doing the work longer than me. And I think that's in a large part because of my DevRel background, I can hop on a stage and make up a five minute lightning talk in a heartbeat, and I can write a blog post about what we just talked about in a [00:13:00] second.\n\n[00:13:00] Matt Broberg: Like I can get a bunch of people talking to each other that didn't want to that's what we do. So at the moment I have no interest in going back, but it's not like Foundationally a problem. I think it's really a question of what kind of DevRel am I going to, which I will, I do want to be honest, the same question happens in product.\n\n[00:13:19] Matt Broberg: Is it a product management role where it is business to business or business to consumer? Is it startup or tech or, enterprise is the enterprise, a certain vertical you need to know the parameters of what you're walking into. Just like you do in any of the situations you are in Deborah, but firm no at the moment.\n\n[00:13:40] Mary Thengvall: Yeah. And Matt, you bring up a good point there. It's like any job, right? The exact nature of what you're doing, what you're responsible for, how much you're traveling, what elements of your job you're expected to do, right? What elements that you've done in another company you don't have to do [00:14:00] here, right?\n\n[00:14:00] Mary Thengvall: Really depends on that position, that team within that company. And that's one of the things that, you know, as I've been building out my team at Komunda, I've been learning, there's some people who go, Oh, developer advocate. Great. I want to do that. And then I do the initial hiring manager interview and they're like, Oh no, that's not the job that I want.\n\n[00:14:21] Mary Thengvall: Are you hiring for a dev advocate? And I go, yes, but it's a dev advocate specifically focused on content or specifically focused on travel or specifically focused on this specific. Audience type and persona. \n\n[00:14:34] PJ Haggerty: I don't just get to travel and have an Instagram lifestyle. \n\n[00:14:37] Mary Thengvall: Right.\n\n[00:14:38] Mary Thengvall: Imagine that. But I think that's where it comes down to, for some people, it's a matter of, I don't want to leave DevRel, but I need to hit these particular parameters, right? I want a DevRel role that I don't have. Travel requirements, or I wanted a role that has travel requirements that I have to be on the road a [00:15:00] lot, right?\n\n[00:15:00] Mary Thengvall: Or I want a PM role because that fits better because of the type of feedback that I like to get and the influence that I like to have on the roadmap and things like that. And so I think for a lot of us the further on we get in our careers, we start to figure out. This is the thing that I really enjoy.\n\n[00:15:20] Mary Thengvall: How do I get to do more of that? And I'm curious if that's what starts to lead us either out of DevRel or into much more specific job descriptions and job titles and things like that within DevRel. Taylor, you're nodding a lot. \n\n[00:15:37] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: One thing when I've been looking, I've explicitly said, for example, if I am going to take another developer advocacy role, it's not going to be content focused.\n\n[00:15:48] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: I've had lots of people reach out to me for other developer advocacy roles. And as soon as I tell them that they're like, Oh, maybe this isn't a good fit. But I've needed that has be the most powerful thing for me to be able to [00:16:00] say that and feel confident about that.\n\n[00:16:02] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: It's definitely a privilege. I'm in a position right now that I can take some time that I don't think. The first time I had layoffs after my first job in DevRel I had that luxury. And so I had to just take the next thing, although it was a great thing anyways, nothing to say that I took something I didn't want, but yeah, it's, I've been a lot more explicit down to just even the product roles that I'm looking at.\n\n[00:16:27] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: That is not looking at an internal product, there's different product role PM roles that it's for more internal engineering teams or like platform teams and stuff like that. I'm looking for external developers. I am keeping it bright. I've categorized what types of developers, a little bit different things like that, but yeah, I think it's always really useful to be like, where do you actually succeed like accel at?\n\n[00:16:52] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: And I found that. through DevRel, really. That helps me realize what are the types of developers that I work really well with. [00:17:00] And I think that's something you can carry with you to future DevRel roles or future other roles. It could even carry to engineering teams that you join or marketing teams or PMM roles that you join.\n\n[00:17:11] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: And that can be a very attractive thing to someone who's hiring to that you have that specific expertise and that you can help level up their team. \n\n[00:17:21] PJ Haggerty: And in some ways you're streamlining the interview process.\n\n[00:17:24] PJ Haggerty: You're saying like, listen, these are my needs. I know you're saying, this is your need. This is your job description, and maybe it's good. And maybe it's not as I am also looking for jobs. Generally, it's not a good job description. Take, listen, all you hiring people, rewrite your DevRel, DevAdvocate job descriptions.\n\n[00:17:38] PJ Haggerty: You're terrible at it, but you're setting those expectations and you're knocking a lot out of the way. They're like, Oh, so Taylor wants this. We don't need to go through three levels of interviewing and a technical interview and an interview with the CEO, just to know that. She's not the right fit for this.\n\n[00:17:53] PJ Haggerty: She already knows she's not the right fit. So maybe folks should take note. If you want to be part of DevRel and you want to continue looking for jobs in [00:18:00] that, define your parameters, set your expectations. And I think also when you're looking at moving out of that, moving out of DevRel, also set your parameters and set your expectations.\n\n[00:18:11] PJ Haggerty: No, learn what you do well and focus on that. \n\n[00:18:13] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Yeah. I literally created a webpage for this and people have read it, hiring people. I even had people who were considering me for one role and based on reading that have been like, We have a different idea because we think this fits you better.\n\n[00:18:29] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: People have complimented it even in roles that weren't a good fit, they reached out to me, they read it and then they were like, no, this isn't. But I, they're like, I really like your doc and it's nice and detailed and all these things. It felt good to, cause I was, it was a really scary thing for me to put out there, like putting my stake in the ground and putting it publicly.\n\n[00:18:49] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: I did leave some ambiguity of if it doesn't entirely line up, but you think that it, we're somewhat on the same page let's still talk and that, that's worked out sometimes too but [00:19:00] yeah it is a little, it is a scary thing to put a stake into the ground, but I feel like at this point I, I would really struggle to go into another Debra role where we're just not a good alignment.\n\n[00:19:13] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: For my own personal reasons, like burnout and happiness. \n\n[00:19:17] Jason Hand: I think earlier when everybody started showing up to call here, I was like, Oh, all these faces I haven't seen for so long. Like the point is we've been doing this for awhile. In fact, we were reminiscing like the very first episode this morning when we were chatting and we're now to a place where like you can say, no, I'm not willing to do that.\n\n[00:19:34] Jason Hand: And no, I'm not willing to do this. And this is what sparks my energy. Some of that I think is just, we've learned over time and we've matured and just know what's good for us and what's bad for us. But I feel like that's also a big part of this whole, transition and growth and everything.\n\n[00:19:48] Jason Hand: Jason, \n\n[00:19:49] Matt Broberg: You're giving me a thought though. Since we're talking to people who are considering job moves it's also getting to that, just, I'm so impressed by you, Taylor, for what you did, like publishing that I didn't have the [00:20:00] gumption. I was waffling for a while at first. But understanding your own motivation.\n\n[00:20:06] Matt Broberg: What I am better at was mapping what is the other, the organization's motivation and really listening for what they need and why they are hiring? So that can reveal a lot of whether you will be the best choice or not. There's one thing I just want like put out there is even if you are a generalist, some of us will identify as generalists since we're pretty broad.\n\n[00:20:27] Matt Broberg: No one wants to hire a generalist. They want the best possible person for the one job they have. So how do you represent yourself as an expert in that thing? If you are, and to the degree you are being honest and then feel it out in the interview for the role I had, I've led a number of teams.\n\n[00:20:45] Matt Broberg: But I put a stake in the ground when I realized that might have not been doing as well. And I said to the hiring VP, I'm like. Hey, I know the kind of employee I'll be here. I will be able to talk to any of your engineers about what problems they have. [00:21:00] I'll be able to map that back to the user's needs. I'll be able to build a system that's scalable and makes sense.\n\n[00:21:05] Matt Broberg: And I'll be in the code with people. I'm not scared of living at that level. If you need somebody who's comfortable with that. That's what I have. If you're looking for somebody who knows retail and can operationalize it in the way that Target does it to date, I'm not going to be able to compete.\n\n[00:21:23] Matt Broberg: That was like a real turning point in the interview process where he's yeah, we are considering somebody who has the other skills, but I am thinking we're struggling with what you're describing. Just, don't be scared to at least really draw the contrast at some point.\n\n[00:21:39] Wesley Faulkner: That level of self awareness sounds like it really helps with making sure that you try to find the right fit, not just for you to the employer, but the employer to you. And I really value the work that you both did for those who are thinking or considering doing a switch from their Dell girl career.\n\n[00:21:57] Wesley Faulkner: I'm going to ask each of you, I'm going to start with you, Matt. [00:22:00] Who did you talk to or resources? Did you utilize outside of yourself? Did you talk to friends? Did you talk to people already in the industry? What research did you do? \n\n[00:22:11] Matt Broberg: Oh, I always start from, we're so privileged that our job is to basically meet amazing people from around the world and in so many different backgrounds.\n\n[00:22:19] Matt Broberg: So I started from my people and then honed in on the ones that had the Product leanings really fortunate that somebody in that space that we weren't super tight with before, but started mentoring me in it and basically. I did what I needed, which was to assign me homework. Read these three books, explain them to me, write this thing up.\n\n[00:22:41] Matt Broberg: And I felt within two weeks, I had a very quick master's class from somebody who'd built a programming language I respected. Because I was scared to go it alone. So I'm a firm believer and also just the way my brain works. I do need others to help me stay accountable to myself.\n\n[00:22:57] Matt Broberg: So that's a huge part of it for me. [00:23:00] \n\n[00:23:02] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Plus one onto that. It was the people that I knew that were, had either previously been PMs. Who came from engineering, who came from more dev roles, people who up to like chief product officer level folks who had come into a startup as a PM for the first time in their careers and, grew, some large products it was all people who had been through untraditional.\n\n[00:23:30] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Moves to PM. And I say that because I have a computer science degree that some of my classmates upon graduating went into APM or I think associate product manager type roles at your very traditional type companies, Google at the time, Twitter had a really good APM program that I think was pretty well respected and other places.\n\n[00:23:53] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: And those were not the right people for me to be talking to because. They grew through those programs and they [00:24:00] came from university and it was just a totally different path. So I needed to figure out what my path would look like and that would be a little bit more traditional. And yeah.\n\n[00:24:08] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: And the first time I liked it, I was like Googling interview stuff on YouTube was a very scary time. I did better with buying some books around like PM interviews and stuff. Those were like less I don't know. Content influencer feeling to them. And so that also just helped me start thinking about, are there certain interview skills that I can improve on?\n\n[00:24:31] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: And even talking to people who literally had roles that were open to hiring untraditional and getting advice from them. Their advice might be biased to the company that they were hiring for, but it definitely is. Thanks to DevRel build out these relationships that people are willing to talk to you that maybe before would have been a lot more of a cold email or, a lot harder to get into conversation with them.\n\n[00:24:58] PJ Haggerty: Yeah, I think that, that kind of [00:25:00] brings us back. How much do you think that DevRel actually helps you get out of DevRel? Like how much do you think about the foundations you build, the relationships you build, all of the people that you meet, whether, you know, virtually, I know I've met a few people that I've actually worked together with eventually and that we never met.\n\n[00:25:16] PJ Haggerty: We only ever conversed on Twitter. But at the same time, like through DevRel, I met them and we recreated this relationship. Do you think people who are in DevRel have a leg up when they're ready to get out? They can say, listen, I've got all these things.\n\n[00:25:28] PJ Haggerty: I can go use my plethora of connections and leverage my network and go do it. Do you think that they're starting from behind because they've done DevRel for so many years? \n\n[00:25:39] Matt Broberg: Oh man, it's \n\n[00:25:40] PJ Haggerty: just the hardest question I could possibly ask. \n\n[00:25:42] Matt Broberg: I'm like, I'm gonna call a false dichotomy. Okay. I'm trying to boil it down into a question.\n\n[00:25:47] Matt Broberg: I respect what you're going for, but like where my brain goes oh man, that depends so much about the individual person and how, what are they actually struggling with this transition? If it's a [00:26:00] identity thing, like for me I threw my identity into DevRel. Like I was on social media platforms every day, talking to you all at, in the night I was podcasting and contributing to open source, it was a real like moment of pulling back the layers of who I see myself as and seeing what's left.\n\n[00:26:20] Matt Broberg: If I don't do that stuff and I don't get the immediate retweets that I got. So I think that was the most terrifying foundational thing for me. It didn't have to do with job titles. It was like, how do I see myself? So that's what hits me. And Taylor, how about you? \n\n[00:26:35] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Yeah. It depends so much on the person.\n\n[00:26:37] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: My answer is yes and no. I. Have been in interview processes where I felt like they were hinting towards the fact because I had spent nine years in Deverell that I may have potentially not been technical enough, which was a really hard thing for me because I was like, wait, how are you even evaluating that. I think yeah, it depends. And it depends on the type of work that you had [00:27:00] done in DevRel. If you had been doing super code heavy DevRel where you're maintaining multiple libraries for a company or something like that would obviously not have come up in their interview.\n\n[00:27:13] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Yeah, I think it heavily depends. I almost started taking some interviews for product marketing manager. I probably would have gotten some questions around you hadn't done some of the traditional marketing parts either.\n\n[00:27:25] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: I feel like that would have probably come up in some of those interviews and I would have had to justify yeah, I actually have though, like maybe I wasn't responsible for some of those metrics, but at times just because it wasn't. Entirely my role. It was just a hat that I put on to help out and be a team player.\n\n[00:27:42] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: But yeah, I feel like any role you're going to go to, you're going to struggle, if you're going more engineering heavy, like I would definitely say that some devil folks are going, unless they've been somehow involved in the production level. \n\n[00:27:56] PJ Haggerty: A \n\n[00:27:57] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: a bit behind rusty if they've done it before and [00:28:00] had gone to Deverell and then we're trying to go back or just a little bit behind.\n\n[00:28:04] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: And so again, what Matt was talking about earlier. Try to map some of the things that you've done to what they actually really need and just try to show that your other positive attributes could, level out some of the ones that maybe you might be a little bit weaker in.\n\n[00:28:23] PJ Haggerty: Perfect. That's actually what I was looking for. I wanted to trap both of you with the false dichotomy into the, it depends on the answer because every DevRel answer involves, it depends. So like for me, that was a trick and I won. But so if you're listening to the recording of this, we're going to take a quick break for our sponsor and then we're going to get into checkouts.\n\n[00:28:41] Jason Hand: First of all, thank you, Matt and Taylor for coming.\n\n[00:28:44] Jason Hand: This has been great. All your. Expertise and insight has been super helpful. And it's just great to see both of you also it's been forever. So thank you. My checkout for today is it's an event that data dog, my employer is going to be putting on in June at the end of June it's [00:29:00] called dash, it's our big user conference and.\n\n[00:29:04] Jason Hand: Registration is open and it's actually surprisingly like filling up already. We've got a bunch of workshops that are already full. And I guess, there's a buzz around the office about how fast things are filling up. And I'm just putting the word out there that if you want to come, if you're in the New York area now's the time because it's actually going to sell out pretty quickly here.\n\n[00:29:20] Jason Hand: So anyway, that's all. Just focused on that event, even though it's still almost two months away, but that's my main checkout for this week. And then let's hand it over to Mary, are you ready for your checkout? \n\n[00:29:31] Mary Thengvall: I am. So I've got two, one that's not at all community related and one that very much is so the one that's not is a book that I am most of the way through and it's been fantastic.\n\n[00:29:43] Mary Thengvall: It's called the humans by Matt,\n\n[00:29:48] Mary Thengvall: And it's an alien who winds up on earth and has to learn about humans and who we are and why we act the way that we do and what makes us [00:30:00] interesting. And it's just, I, it was not a book that I thought I would enjoy as much as I have. But it's been. Fantastic. And one of those is like I'll be reading it and laugh out loud and go, wait a second, Jeremy's asleep next to me.\n\n[00:30:13] Mary Thengvall: I need to be quieter. And it's just so good. So I highly recommend that. And then the second thing is if you're familiar with the contributor covenant. They have a code of conduct that different teams can adopt for their projects. They're working on V3 of their code of conduct and they're looking for feedback on how community builders have implemented and enforced code of conducts, in the past.\n\n[00:30:39] Mary Thengvall: So they're looking for people to take their survey. We'll have a link to that in the show notes. \n\n[00:30:46] PJ Haggerty: Awesome. As a former contributor to the contributor covenant, I highly recommend getting involved really helps to build safe and inclusive spaces. So please, definitely check it out. Let's go Taylor.\n\n[00:30:57] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Yeah. So mine is a book that [00:31:00] I'm about a little over half done with. It's called range by David Epstein. The subtitle is why generalists triumph in a specialized world. I think I've always really struggled with the fact that I was a generalist, as like a negative thing as like a thing that I needed to improve about myself.\n\n[00:31:16] Taylor Barnett-Torabi: Somehow I needed to be less of a generalist. And reading it with the scientific backing to it has made me feel a little bit more powerful as a generalist and also just tried to find The strengths more rather than the negatives. And yeah that's mine.\n\n[00:31:35] PJ Haggerty: Super cool. \n\n[00:31:36] Matt Broberg: Sure. Yeah. First one just on the theme of PMs and getting jobs in it. I was going back through Taylor, I hope this isn't one of the cheesy ones from your list because it hit home for me, the product manager interview by Louis C. Lynn. It's just like a gauntlet of questions and a couple really easy to remember frameworks that give you a cheat sheet.\n\n[00:31:58] Matt Broberg: And that's how my [00:32:00] brain works. I need reps and I need systems. So if that tracks for you, that really set me up with something to start with. And then I'm really freaking excited about ADRs lately, which sounds so boring because it's just a way to record a decision. But what's really powerful about it is like, it ends up being like the nucleus of how the organism of an organization functions, if you can get there. If we have agreed that this is true. Therefore, whatever you're building, better come back to this principle. And it gets a lot of wasteful meetings, wasteful back and forths.\n\n[00:32:37] Matt Broberg: People are able to self monitor their alignment and by design, they're meant to be superseded and updated regularly. So there's some really cool ideas in it. There are a couple of good frameworks out there and I am deep in it more than I probably need to be, but it's really fun. \n\n[00:32:55] PJ Haggerty: I think one of the things that I always appreciate about you, Matt, is you're always deep in it.\n\n[00:32:59] PJ Haggerty: And I know that I can, [00:33:00] if you're going to give us something, it's because you've done the research. \n\n[00:33:03] Matt Broberg: My wife calls me a deep hobbyist and she is not wrong. \n\n[00:33:06] PJ Haggerty: Yes. It's only problematic when we look at the amount of money spent on the hobby. Wesley, what did you got? \n\n[00:33:13] Wesley Faulkner: So in March I had the pleasure or the honor to go to South by Southwest.\n\n[00:33:19] Wesley Faulkner: And I've gone every year I've gone to every South by physical or virtual since 2008. So it's a place that I go to get new ideas and the new outlooks on things. But this year I had the pleasure of being a featured speaker at South by Southwest which was very new to me. And it was very nerve wracking.\n\n[00:33:42] Wesley Faulkner: Talk to Taylor about that. We were in Austin together. And so like it was, I was so nervous on the stage that I actually didn't remember a big chunk of what I said. And what I did was when the talk was published on YouTube, I went, I listened to it, watched it [00:34:00] and critiqued it as you do. But the thing that showed up as a recommended video, like on the sidebar was this talk from South by as well from Amy Gallo.\n\n[00:34:10] Wesley Faulkner: This is how teams can skip the drama and embrace healthy conflict. And part of this talk. There's also the, what is it? The adage that you don't quit companies, you quit managers were a lot of some of the problems that we probably have.\n\n[00:34:28] Wesley Faulkner: This role is dealing with some people and not being able to have healthy conflict either from their part or our part or both so this was a great video to watch to cement some ways to get around it and also to reinforce best practices. It's great to share if you want to send it to someone, if you're in that situation as well.\n\n[00:34:48] PJ Haggerty: Cool. Awesome. Thanks, Wesley. For me, I've got a couple of things. First of all, it's spring and spring means that it's time to go and see concerts again. So there's a lot of great music coming out. So the first thing that I want to mention is Gary [00:35:00] Clark Jr., who is a prominent blues guitarist, actually from Austin, Texas.\n\n[00:35:04] PJ Haggerty: Well known for a lot of his blues albums has a new album out called JPEG raw. It's different. It's more of an R and B almost hip hoppy. guest features. Super awesome album. Personally, I think the last track habits is probably one of the best songs I've heard in a long time. If not probably the number one song, 2024.\n\n[00:35:22] PJ Haggerty: Secondly, Frank Turner, another great guitarist from the UK has a new album. Just dropped today called undefeated, highly recommended. It's very self reflective. Let's think about how I do things. Things can get better if we keep working at the kind of attitude behind Frank Turner's music.\n\n[00:35:37] PJ Haggerty: So check that out. If you're going to go and support these artists, go out to your concerts and look good. I've been using a company for a long time called geeky jerseys. This is if you have a fandom that you're really into, they probably have a Jersey that fits that. They do a lot of stuff with Kevin Smith and Star Wars and Star Trek.\n\n[00:35:53] PJ Haggerty: I have a Buffy baseball jersey. I have a Cthulhu hockey Jersey. My son has a hockey Jersey. It's really cool. They [00:36:00] also do hats and shirts and stuff. So geeky jerseys, check them out. With that, while you're thinking about change and growth and everything, I want to say, thank you so much, Matt and Taylor.\n\n[00:36:09] PJ Haggerty: It's so awesome that you're able to come and spend time with us and tell us about your journeys. As always, Wesley, Mary, Jason. It's always great to have a show with you. Before we go, I always like to end with a quote, and I know that I'm making a statement by whose quote I picked this week, but those who know anyway, the message I'm sending to myself, I can't change the world until I change myself first.\n\n[00:36:30] PJ Haggerty: Kendrick Lamar With that, thank you. From the Community Pulse, say stay safe and we'll see you next time\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Matt Broberg and Taylor Barnett-Torabi.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIn this episode, the hosts discuss the evolving career paths of Developer Relations (DevRel) professionals, focusing on those who have transitioned out of DevRel or are contemplating such a move. Co-hosts PJ Haggerty, Mary Thengvall, Wesley Faulkner, and Jason Hand engage with guests Taylor Barnett-Torabi and Matt Broberg, who share their experiences with leaving DevRel and exploring new roles. The episode touches on themes like career shifts, identity, burnout, and the skills that are transferable to new positions, particularly in product management.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuest Introductions:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi\u003c/strong\u003e reflects on her nine years in DevRel, with roles spanning product marketing, support, and engineering. After a recent layoff, she is now exploring product management roles, particularly those involving external developers.\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg\u003c/strong\u003e, with 15 years of experience, shifted from DevRel to product management at Target, citing personal reasons like starting a family and the exhaustion from constant travel. He discusses his transition into a more structured product management role where he found more clarity and stability.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCo-Hosts’ Perspectives:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty\u003c/strong\u003e opens the discussion by noting that the definition of DevRel has always been fluid and constantly evolving. He reflects on how many professionals in DevRel are required to wear multiple hats, balancing technical work, marketing, sales, and community engagement. For many, this lack of clarity in job expectations leads to burnout. PJ recognizes that DevRel professionals are often caught between the pressures of representing their companies, managing community relationships, and working with other departments, which can make the role unsustainable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/strong\u003e adds to the conversation, discussing the challenges of defining clear DevRel roles. She explains that with such a wide range of expectations, professionals can feel disconnected from their core mission. Mary encourages DevRel professionals to think about their career trajectory and how they want their job to align with their personal life and passions. She also underscores the importance of self-awareness and recognizing when it\u0026#39;s time for a change, highlighting that many DevRel professionals possess transferable skills that can help them pivot to roles like product management.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/strong\u003e comments on the evolving nature of DevRel and the burnout many experience, especially given the expectations that come with travel, content creation, and event planning. He shares his perspective that, as the industry matures, many DevRel professionals may feel they have \u0026quot;graduated\u0026quot; from the role and are ready for a new challenge. Wesley echoes the sentiment that DevRel professionals may naturally move into product management or similar positions due to their deep involvement with engineering teams and the product development process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand\u003c/strong\u003e brings his unique perspective as someone who has also been part of the DevRel space for years. He highlights that many people in DevRel, himself included, end up working more closely with product teams than marketing teams, which often leads to a natural progression toward product management. Jason adds that, in his own experience, the role of DevRel can be exhilarating but exhausting. He acknowledges the ups and downs, including the excitement of community building and the frustration that can come with trying to balance so many roles within one job.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason also provides a thoughtful commentary on the shifting expectations of the DevRel community. He shares his personal experiences with burnout from events like DevOpsDays Rockies, where he was involved in organizing and noticed the increasing complexity and demands of running large-scale community events. For Jason, this evolution mirrored his growing awareness that DevRel, as it was previously structured, wasn’t sustainable long-term. He is now seeking a role that aligns with his current life stage, acknowledging that the changing landscape of DevRel has influenced his own career trajectory.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTransitioning Out of DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMatt’s Journey: Matt’s transition from DevRel was rooted in a personal desire for less travel and more stability after starting a family. He also noted that DevRel, which often involves explaining the role to others, became less appealing. The constant juggling of multiple responsibilities without a clear focus was exhausting. Moving into product management, where the role is more defined, gave Matt the clarity and focus he sought. He explains that product management, while still requiring cross-functional collaboration, allowed him to focus on building and scaling products rather than explaining what he did all the time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eTaylor’s Journey: Taylor, after a layoff, reflected on her long-term career goals and concluded that DevRel was not something she wanted to do indefinitely. She had already worn many hats—product marketing, support, and product management—which led her to explore product management as a career option. Taylor admits that transitioning away from DevRel was a challenging decision, but after engaging in various product roles, she realized that she was already performing the duties of a PM without the official title. Her journey also highlighted the need to redefine what success looks like in a new role, which was a common theme throughout the episode.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCo-Hosts’ Views on Career Transitions:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley emphasizes the importance of knowing what parts of DevRel you excel at and how that can guide a future career shift. He mentions that many DevRel professionals already possess a solid understanding of product development, community engagement, and customer feedback—all skills that translate well into roles like product management or engineering.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary agrees and discusses the importance of defining your boundaries and expectations when considering a career shift. She acknowledges that DevRel professionals may want more structure and clarity in their roles, which is often found in product management or engineering.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ reflects on the ever-changing nature of job descriptions in DevRel. He acknowledges that the role is often misdefined, leading to confusion about what DevRel actually entails. PJ stresses the importance of setting clear parameters for oneself when looking to transition into another role and maintaining transparency during the interview process. He encourages listeners to focus on their strengths and communicate their career goals clearly to employers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe Role of Networking and Relationships: Both Matt and Taylor emphasize the value of networking and building relationships throughout their careers. Taylor talks about the importance of leveraging her network, including people who had successfully transitioned into product management, to gain insight into the process. She also mentions that her personal website, where she outlined her career goals and what she was looking for, helped clarify her intentions to potential employers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCo-Hosts’ Takeaways:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley emphasizes the need for professionals to assess their skills, passions, and long-term career goals. He encourages those considering a career shift to find roles that align with their interests and offer the opportunity for growth.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason adds that, for many DevRel professionals, the transition to product management feels like a natural evolution due to the similarities between the roles. He notes that despite the changes, he still finds the core of DevRel—community engagement and helping developers—appealing, and that the landscape continues to shift, making it important for individuals to adapt accordingly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFinal Thoughts on Returning to DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e As the episode wraps up, Matt shares that, for now, he is content in his product management role and would not return to DevRel, even if presented with a job offer. However, he acknowledges that roles within DevRel vary greatly, and he wouldn\u0026#39;t rule out returning if the right opportunity arose. Taylor, meanwhile, is open to returning to DevRel but only if the role is a better fit for her personal and professional goals, including avoiding burnout.\u003cbr\u003e\nConclusion: The episode concludes with a conversation about how DevRel professionals are increasingly taking control of their career trajectories. They are setting clearer boundaries, exploring roles outside of DevRel, and finding new ways to apply their skills in product management, engineering, and other fields. The key takeaway is the importance of understanding personal goals, being clear about what you want, and using the skills honed in DevRel to explore new and fulfilling career paths.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Words and Themes:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nKeywords:\u003cbr\u003e\nDevRel\u003cbr\u003e\nProduct Management (PM)\u003cbr\u003e\nCareer Transition\u003cbr\u003e\nBurnout\u003cbr\u003e\nRole Clarity\u003cbr\u003e\nSelf-Awareness\u003cbr\u003e\nNetworking\u003cbr\u003e\nProduct Marketing\u003cbr\u003e\nSkills Transfer\u003cbr\u003e\nCommunity Building\u003cbr\u003e\nJob Titles\u003cbr\u003e\nTravel\u003cbr\u003e\nWork-Life Balance\u003cbr\u003e\nPersonal Motivation\u003cbr\u003e\nIdentity Shift\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThemes:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Evolution and Ambiguity of DevRel Roles:\u003c/strong\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe constantly changing expectations and definitions of DevRel roles, which contribute to career shifts.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe importance of clarity in defining DevRel responsibilities to avoid burnout.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBurnout and Work-Life Balance:\u003c/strong\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eHow burnout, especially from constant travel and shifting roles, leads DevRel professionals to explore other career opportunities.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe impact of personal life changes (e.g., starting a family) on career decisions.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTransferable Skills from DevRel:\u003c/strong\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe value of skills learned in DevRel, such as community engagement, cross-team collaboration, and product feedback integration, which can be applied to other roles like product management and marketing.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCareer Clarity and Self-Awareness:\u003c/strong\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe importance of understanding personal strengths and passions to make a career transition successful.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eSetting clear expectations during job searches and being transparent about job preferences.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Role of Networking and Mentorship:\u003c/strong\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eLeveraging relationships built during a DevRel career to facilitate career transitions.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe importance of mentorship and advice from others who have made similar career shifts.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDefining Your Career Path:\u003c/strong\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eHow professionals can shape their career paths by focusing on what they truly enjoy and aligning that with the right opportunities.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe challenge of transitioning from generalist roles to more specialized positions and the need for clear career goals.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eThe Changing Nature of Work:\u003c/strong\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe growing need for roles to provide clarity, sustainability, and alignment with personal goals.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe influence of remote work, COVID-19, and evolving expectations on job satisfaction and career transitions.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eQuote:\u003c/em\u003e “The message I’m sending to myself: I can’t change the world until I change myself first” - Kendrick Lamar\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nTaylor Barnett-Torabi\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://davidepstein.com/range/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRange\u003c/a\u003e by David Epstein \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMatt Broberg\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://github.com/joelparkerhenderson/architecture-decision-record\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eADRs\u003c/a\u003e or documenting decisions as a thing™ – Any Decision Record (formally Architectural)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eIf you’re looking at PM roles, \u003ca href=\"https://www.lewis-lin.com/the-product-manager-interview-lewis-lin\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Product Manager Interview\u003c/a\u003e by Lewis C. Lin helped me get my footing\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwuwFyiaCdU\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHow Teams Can Skip the Drama and Embrace Healthy Conflict with Amy Gallo | SXSW 2024\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.dashcon.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDASH - 2024\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eFrank Turner’s latest album - \u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/album/5htcBxqWfEWaZ7CCETXcH9\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUndefeated\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eGary Clark Jr - \u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/album/09XurHGqbBgvj7SH96UbPV\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJPEG RAW\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.geekyjerseys.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGeeky Jerseys\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/3y3r5w1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Humans\u003c/a\u003e by Matt Haig\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.contributor-covenant.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eContributor Covenant\u003c/a\u003e code of conduct - they’re working on v3 of the code of conduct and want feedback on how community builders have implemented CoCs in the past. \u003ca href=\"https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdf3QE5n5ILH7Fq1nNSECwUFnfYYOwQw4A_zYik43CGVrdfcQ/viewform\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTake the survey to help out!\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@mantashesthaven?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\"\u003eMantas Hesthaven\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/photos/man-holding-luggage-photo-_g1WdcKcV3w?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003ch3\u003eTranscript\u003c/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:00] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Developer Relations has gone through quite a few changes over the last few years. Along their journey, they moved away from DevRel, but they still use those abilities in new ways. So what is it like when you bounce from DevRel?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:19] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e To talk us through this career progression, we have two amazing guests with us today. One of whom has moved on from DevRel and one who\u0026#39;s been considering it. Taylor and Matt, would you mind introducing yourselves? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:32] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. So hi, I\u0026#39;m Taylor Barnett Torabi. I have been in tech startups for about 10 years now for starting in engineering.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:00:40] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e And then about the last nine years, I\u0026#39;ve been in more dev rel roles, often more senior developer advocate roles, and those have looked at all developer focused startups for the most part, four different ones over the last nine years, a large part of my focus had been bridging that gap between developers and in the [00:01:00] community, and I wore a lot of different hats.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:02] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e A lot of my exploration of where I want to go next has been exploring those different hats and which one might be a good fit for the future. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:11] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Awesome. Thanks so much for being here. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:13] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Hey friends, Matt Broberg. I am a director of product management at Target.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:19] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m not representing them at all here. This is purely a community connection point for me. I am focused on cloud infrastructure for a large retailer and it\u0026#39;s public and private cloud. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:30] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e All the infrastructure stuff I\u0026#39;ve been doing for about 15 years now. Started in tech support. Got into engineering, bopped into marketing. Once I realized I needed to talk to people more and eventually through the startups and different phases of life, I landed in product because it seemed like a nice in between that we\u0026#39;ll get into more.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:01:52] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you. It\u0026#39;s awesome to have both of you here. The first question is related to your journey to where you are, Matt, you [00:02:00] alluded to bouncing around and changing. My question is. What would you say would be the, all of the factors that caused you to consider leaving developer relations? You mentioned some environment, personal skills.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:14] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Is it, how much of it was internal? How much of it was external? Could you just tell us a little bit more about that? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:19] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Sure. Sure. Yeah. The leaving dev rel framing of it is an interesting one to me because I don\u0026#39;t know if it was a result of goals I had or just or actually really intentional and I didn\u0026#39;t.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:32] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Tell myself that, but I think at the point where I was making a decision, where to shift, I noticed two things in my life that weren\u0026#39;t working anymore, one the travel and commitment of that was inherent to developer advocacy. If you\u0026#39;re going to be a strong leader there, you may be on a plane at any moment and you certainly will be going somewhere or connecting with someone in person at least once a month at a minimum is what I found.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:02:59] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e [00:03:00] And I wanted after COVID to be a real, wild time for all of us to put it way broadly, very quickly. But a moment of reflection where I realized I didn\u0026#39;t want to do that anymore. And personally, my. My partner and I decided to start having kids. And as soon as I thought about my job and that intersection, I\u0026#39;m like, absolutely not.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:25] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e And then it was a question of skills. Like I, the thing that was absolutely at the root of it. One of the many root causes is, as you could say, that I spent so much time in DevRel explaining what my job was and what my job wasn\u0026#39;t, as opposed to just doing my damn job. And I was really sick of that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:03:44] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Ironically, I still do a good bit of that in product, but it just feels so simple comparatively, there\u0026#39;s only one or two jobs they expect, not 15. So I think it comes down to clarity of role family and just needing a change in that way. [00:04:00] Yeah. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:00] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Taylor, what caused you to question the direction that you want to take? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:04] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I went through a layoff in March. And so it was like this time for me to question what\u0026#39;s next. I had always considered it. Leaving DevRel for something else over a longer period of time, I didn\u0026#39;t think DevRe lnecessarily for me was Something I was going to do for, 15 20 years straight I knew I was committed to spending a really long time there I had this weird goal of 10 years, potentially almost 10 years I just saw so many folks burn out over the years and was like, I want to do this in a sustainable way that I can do this for many years to come.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:04:42] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Not to say that, that hasn\u0026#39;t really changed. For me, more was about thinking of all the different hats that I had been wearing. Over the last nine years, product marketing, even a little bit of support, worked with the engineering teams on different things, like all the [00:05:00] different ones, working with sales.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:01] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Like I just, I\u0026#39;d been, I\u0026#39;d worked with pretty much every single team there was. And then at times I was like a technical product marketer, yeah, sure. I can write some copy if that\u0026#39;s what is needed or whatever that thing was. Including for me, that was product management. Last year had an experience where I was basically the PM for a new API, he was taking our internal API, making it public and all the work I did from Ideation through launching it, it was PM work.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:33] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e And it took me a little bit to accept that yeah, I was the PM for that. We didn\u0026#39;t have PMs as a formal role in my last company. Often in the absence of a role, somebody steps in and does that. But also, I felt like the type of developer advocacy that I had been practicing and that I\u0026#39;d been selling companies on when they hired me was.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:05:52] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Listening to users, figuring out ways that we could bring that feedback into the company and actually build [00:06:00] better products from it along with all the other traditional, developer relations type activities outside of that. And I feel like doing that, I realized. I\u0026#39;d been doing it on hard mode, doing it from a devil role, often in my case, sitting under marketing, which I have no issue with \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:19] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e it was actually one of the things I care pretty much the least about. It just made all of that really hard. And so it really gave me like, okay, what if I actually tried to do a product from like an actual product org. In a PM role. And that\u0026#39;s what I\u0026#39;ve really been exploring.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:06:40] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e That\u0026#39;s a, I loved hearing that Taylor in particular, cause I think you\u0026#39;re hitting on something that I hope will help others think through their own career journeys a little differently of differentiating what\u0026#39;s often smooshed together, like your job title. And the presumed career track of that versus your skills, your job skills, if you want to call [00:07:00] it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:00] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e And that skill tree that you are working towards mastery and some expertise and where is it transposable to different job titles than before versus like really specific. A lot of what we do in DevRel is incredibly flexible because it\u0026#39;s not been around for a while. So that means there are other places we must be able to map to because there\u0026#39;s obviously value to the business.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:26] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I think Matt, you bring up a good point too, when it comes to the mapping to the business idea a lot of times and going back to what you were saying about constantly explaining what it is that we do and Taylor adding to the fact that what do we do? We do everything. There\u0026#39;s that issue of like, When, when I first started DevRel, there was no definition.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:42] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Then it was like, it\u0026#39;s a marketing definition. Then it\u0026#39;s a pre-sales definition. Then it\u0026#39;s a product and engineering definition. And it\u0026#39;s constantly changing and you can\u0026#39;t really have the level of stability that you might desire. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:07:53] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Makes it less desirable, especially when you have a family and Taylor, you mentioned the burnout factor and the instability lens to the fact [00:08:00] that, you\u0026#39;re going to burn out because you\u0026#39;re constantly doing so many different things, but where did you see where, the intersection of, Oh, I realized that while I\u0026#39;m doing DevRel, my title might be DevAdvocate, but I\u0026#39;m actually like.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:13] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e a 75 percent of the time product manager. Like when do you say, all right, I realize I\u0026#39;m not doing DevRel anymore. Maybe I need to look at something different. Like when did the light bulb go off? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:24] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Part of it is people have actually brought it up to me probably for the last six, seven years.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:08:30] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e So it\u0026#39;s always been there. It was like, I\u0026#39;ve had managers who have been like, have you ever thought about doing a product? I\u0026#39;m like, yeah, but I\u0026#39;m working in a startup that does not have that as a role. And maybe sometimes was not always kind to the idea of having PMs maybe cause of bad past experiences or for various different reasons, so it pushed me away from it I knew I would have to potentially leave a company to do it basically And then the other thing, yeah, so yeah, managers, people on the community, various, [00:09:00] I\u0026#39;ve had many people ask me about doing, and I always push it off, maybe down, down the line.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:05] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Other people were recognizing it, but it took me longer, I think, to recognize it for myself. So there, there was that. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:13] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Sometimes there\u0026#39;s that level of self acceptance that we push others. No, I\u0026#39;m a developer advocate. I would never do such a thing. And finally realized, oh, but it is what I do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:21] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. And what you said about the roles constantly changing, but at the end of the day, my goals had not changed. I still wanted to help build technical products and relationships with users that developers love and want to use and pay money for and make us all successful. And, with the definition constantly changing, maybe there was a different place for me to achieve that same goal with a different title.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:09:50] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I think Mary\u0026#39;s Mary and PJ are much better at going back into the archives of community pulse episodes and like retrieving different conversations we\u0026#39;ve had, but some of this is [00:10:00] definitely bringing back some memories of People who have transitioned on to other things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:04] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And it seems like products are not always, but it is common for a lot of people in developer relations. I know for me that was a direction I felt like I might be heading in. And a lot of that was because I, A lot of times, worked with the product team more than anybody else, other than the engineers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:20] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I wasn\u0026#39;t really answering to marketing, I wasn\u0026#39;t answering to sales. I loved sort of the building process and sitting next to the engineers and just digging into the technical stuff more than the things that were exposed to me with the marketing and sales types of things. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:34] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e You mentioned Jason, because I would actually be curious about people who have left DevRel and maybe, hit us up on socials or, send us a message or whatever. But if you\u0026#39;ve left DevRel, did you leave for engineering or did you leave for marketing or did you leave for product? Those seem to be the three answers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:47] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:47] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you leave to go start your own company? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:10:49] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And a lot of it I think just depends on where you came from. Like some people, we\u0026#39;ve been burned or we\u0026#39;ve been turned off to certain departments because of like maybe a bad manager or just, things just weren\u0026#39;t [00:11:00] great.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:00] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And also we\u0026#39;ve been turned on to things, I\u0026#39;ve been around some really good PMs and Oh, actually it looks interesting to me. And I think I have the baseline skills, but anyway, we, our minds wander into all kinds of things that we could be doing that could pull us away from DevRel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:12] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think the question comes back to me is. But is that still core to who I am? Would I consider coming back if I was in a better situation? Maybe the situation was what drove me to switch. It wasn\u0026#39;t necessary that, Matt, you\u0026#39;re exactly right. Like I don\u0026#39;t want to travel as much anymore.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:28] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Like I can\u0026#39;t do it the hard mode. Like you were saying, Taylor, that\u0026#39;s exactly what I was doing for so long and then burnt out and then COVID came and wiped the slate clean on like how we do this DevRel stuff. But I still feel myself coming back to it. So I\u0026#39;ll start with you, Matt. Sounds like you\u0026#39;re loving what you\u0026#39;re doing. So probably a better situation, like mentally and physically and just balanced and that kind of thing. But would you come back to develop developer relations? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:51] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e At the moment, this is probably the first time in my career. I would not consider another job offer at the moment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:11:58] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e I think there are a lot of factors [00:12:00] here, but the biggest one being, let\u0026#39;s be honest, a little bit of dumb luck. Like I joined a company that is local to me. So I get local connection, which was important to me next. And they are at a stage of evolving a practice that despite not having the title as much as other people I work with, I am well read on it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:22] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Not to toot my own horn, but I go deep on something if I\u0026#39;m going to invest in it, especially for career. So I\u0026#39;ve read probably 20, 30 of the essential product management books. I follow the podcasts. I\u0026#39;ve gotten to know that community of an ecosystem and I can represent it well. And we happen to be adopting stuff that I\u0026#39;m very familiar with.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:12:41] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e And I\u0026#39;ve, then, been able to be really influential pretty quickly relative to people who have been doing the work longer than me. And I think that\u0026#39;s in a large part because of my DevRel background, I can hop on a stage and make up a five minute lightning talk in a heartbeat, and I can write a blog post about what we just talked about in a [00:13:00] second.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:00] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Like I can get a bunch of people talking to each other that didn\u0026#39;t want to that\u0026#39;s what we do. So at the moment I have no interest in going back, but it\u0026#39;s not like Foundationally a problem. I think it\u0026#39;s really a question of what kind of DevRel am I going to, which I will, I do want to be honest, the same question happens in product.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:19] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Is it a product management role where it is business to business or business to consumer? Is it startup or tech or, enterprise is the enterprise, a certain vertical you need to know the parameters of what you\u0026#39;re walking into. Just like you do in any of the situations you are in Deborah, but firm no at the moment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:13:40] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. And Matt, you bring up a good point there. It\u0026#39;s like any job, right? The exact nature of what you\u0026#39;re doing, what you\u0026#39;re responsible for, how much you\u0026#39;re traveling, what elements of your job you\u0026#39;re expected to do, right? What elements that you\u0026#39;ve done in another company you don\u0026#39;t have to do [00:14:00] here, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:00] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Really depends on that position, that team within that company. And that\u0026#39;s one of the things that, you know, as I\u0026#39;ve been building out my team at Komunda, I\u0026#39;ve been learning, there\u0026#39;s some people who go, Oh, developer advocate. Great. I want to do that. And then I do the initial hiring manager interview and they\u0026#39;re like, Oh no, that\u0026#39;s not the job that I want.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:21] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Are you hiring for a dev advocate? And I go, yes, but it\u0026#39;s a dev advocate specifically focused on content or specifically focused on travel or specifically focused on this specific. Audience type and persona. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:34] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I don\u0026#39;t just get to travel and have an Instagram lifestyle. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:37] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:14:38] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Imagine that. But I think that\u0026#39;s where it comes down to, for some people, it\u0026#39;s a matter of, I don\u0026#39;t want to leave DevRel, but I need to hit these particular parameters, right? I want a DevRel role that I don\u0026#39;t have. Travel requirements, or I wanted a role that has travel requirements that I have to be on the road a [00:15:00] lot, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:00] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e Or I want a PM role because that fits better because of the type of feedback that I like to get and the influence that I like to have on the roadmap and things like that. And so I think for a lot of us the further on we get in our careers, we start to figure out. This is the thing that I really enjoy.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:20] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e How do I get to do more of that? And I\u0026#39;m curious if that\u0026#39;s what starts to lead us either out of DevRel or into much more specific job descriptions and job titles and things like that within DevRel. Taylor, you\u0026#39;re nodding a lot. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:37] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e One thing when I\u0026#39;ve been looking, I\u0026#39;ve explicitly said, for example, if I am going to take another developer advocacy role, it\u0026#39;s not going to be content focused.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:15:48] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;ve had lots of people reach out to me for other developer advocacy roles. And as soon as I tell them that they\u0026#39;re like, Oh, maybe this isn\u0026#39;t a good fit. But I\u0026#39;ve needed that has be the most powerful thing for me to be able to [00:16:00] say that and feel confident about that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:02] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s definitely a privilege. I\u0026#39;m in a position right now that I can take some time that I don\u0026#39;t think. The first time I had layoffs after my first job in DevRel I had that luxury. And so I had to just take the next thing, although it was a great thing anyways, nothing to say that I took something I didn\u0026#39;t want, but yeah, it\u0026#39;s, I\u0026#39;ve been a lot more explicit down to just even the product roles that I\u0026#39;m looking at.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:27] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e That is not looking at an internal product, there\u0026#39;s different product role PM roles that it\u0026#39;s for more internal engineering teams or like platform teams and stuff like that. I\u0026#39;m looking for external developers. I am keeping it bright. I\u0026#39;ve categorized what types of developers, a little bit different things like that, but yeah, I think it\u0026#39;s always really useful to be like, where do you actually succeed like accel at?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:16:52] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e And I found that. through DevRel, really. That helps me realize what are the types of developers that I work really well with. [00:17:00] And I think that\u0026#39;s something you can carry with you to future DevRel roles or future other roles. It could even carry to engineering teams that you join or marketing teams or PMM roles that you join.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:11] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e And that can be a very attractive thing to someone who\u0026#39;s hiring to that you have that specific expertise and that you can help level up their team. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:21] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And in some ways you\u0026#39;re streamlining the interview process.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:24] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e You\u0026#39;re saying like, listen, these are my needs. I know you\u0026#39;re saying, this is your need. This is your job description, and maybe it\u0026#39;s good. And maybe it\u0026#39;s not as I am also looking for jobs. Generally, it\u0026#39;s not a good job description. Take, listen, all you hiring people, rewrite your DevRel, DevAdvocate job descriptions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:38] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e You\u0026#39;re terrible at it, but you\u0026#39;re setting those expectations and you\u0026#39;re knocking a lot out of the way. They\u0026#39;re like, Oh, so Taylor wants this. We don\u0026#39;t need to go through three levels of interviewing and a technical interview and an interview with the CEO, just to know that. She\u0026#39;s not the right fit for this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:17:53] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e She already knows she\u0026#39;s not the right fit. So maybe folks should take note. If you want to be part of DevRel and you want to continue looking for jobs in [00:18:00] that, define your parameters, set your expectations. And I think also when you\u0026#39;re looking at moving out of that, moving out of DevRel, also set your parameters and set your expectations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:11] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e No, learn what you do well and focus on that. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:13] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I literally created a webpage for this and people have read it, hiring people. I even had people who were considering me for one role and based on reading that have been like, We have a different idea because we think this fits you better.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:29] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e People have complimented it even in roles that weren\u0026#39;t a good fit, they reached out to me, they read it and then they were like, no, this isn\u0026#39;t. But I, they\u0026#39;re like, I really like your doc and it\u0026#39;s nice and detailed and all these things. It felt good to, cause I was, it was a really scary thing for me to put out there, like putting my stake in the ground and putting it publicly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:18:49] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e I did leave some ambiguity of if it doesn\u0026#39;t entirely line up, but you think that it, we\u0026#39;re somewhat on the same page let\u0026#39;s still talk and that, that\u0026#39;s worked out sometimes too but [00:19:00] yeah it is a little, it is a scary thing to put a stake into the ground, but I feel like at this point I, I would really struggle to go into another Debra role where we\u0026#39;re just not a good alignment.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:13] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e For my own personal reasons, like burnout and happiness. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:17] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e I think earlier when everybody started showing up to call here, I was like, Oh, all these faces I haven\u0026#39;t seen for so long. Like the point is we\u0026#39;ve been doing this for awhile. In fact, we were reminiscing like the very first episode this morning when we were chatting and we\u0026#39;re now to a place where like you can say, no, I\u0026#39;m not willing to do that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:34] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e And no, I\u0026#39;m not willing to do this. And this is what sparks my energy. Some of that I think is just, we\u0026#39;ve learned over time and we\u0026#39;ve matured and just know what\u0026#39;s good for us and what\u0026#39;s bad for us. But I feel like that\u0026#39;s also a big part of this whole, transition and growth and everything.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:48] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Jason, \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:19:49] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e You\u0026#39;re giving me a thought though. Since we\u0026#39;re talking to people who are considering job moves it\u0026#39;s also getting to that, just, I\u0026#39;m so impressed by you, Taylor, for what you did, like publishing that I didn\u0026#39;t have the [00:20:00] gumption. I was waffling for a while at first. But understanding your own motivation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:06] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e What I am better at was mapping what is the other, the organization\u0026#39;s motivation and really listening for what they need and why they are hiring? So that can reveal a lot of whether you will be the best choice or not. There\u0026#39;s one thing I just want like put out there is even if you are a generalist, some of us will identify as generalists since we\u0026#39;re pretty broad.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:27] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e No one wants to hire a generalist. They want the best possible person for the one job they have. So how do you represent yourself as an expert in that thing? If you are, and to the degree you are being honest and then feel it out in the interview for the role I had, I\u0026#39;ve led a number of teams.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:20:45] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e But I put a stake in the ground when I realized that might have not been doing as well. And I said to the hiring VP, I\u0026#39;m like. Hey, I know the kind of employee I\u0026#39;ll be here. I will be able to talk to any of your engineers about what problems they have. [00:21:00] I\u0026#39;ll be able to map that back to the user\u0026#39;s needs. I\u0026#39;ll be able to build a system that\u0026#39;s scalable and makes sense.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:05] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e And I\u0026#39;ll be in the code with people. I\u0026#39;m not scared of living at that level. If you need somebody who\u0026#39;s comfortable with that. That\u0026#39;s what I have. If you\u0026#39;re looking for somebody who knows retail and can operationalize it in the way that Target does it to date, I\u0026#39;m not going to be able to compete.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:23] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e That was like a real turning point in the interview process where he\u0026#39;s yeah, we are considering somebody who has the other skills, but I am thinking we\u0026#39;re struggling with what you\u0026#39;re describing. Just, don\u0026#39;t be scared to at least really draw the contrast at some point.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:39] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e That level of self awareness sounds like it really helps with making sure that you try to find the right fit, not just for you to the employer, but the employer to you. And I really value the work that you both did for those who are thinking or considering doing a switch from their Dell girl career.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:21:57] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m going to ask each of you, I\u0026#39;m going to start with you, Matt. [00:22:00] Who did you talk to or resources? Did you utilize outside of yourself? Did you talk to friends? Did you talk to people already in the industry? What research did you do? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:11] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I always start from, we\u0026#39;re so privileged that our job is to basically meet amazing people from around the world and in so many different backgrounds.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:19] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e So I started from my people and then honed in on the ones that had the Product leanings really fortunate that somebody in that space that we weren\u0026#39;t super tight with before, but started mentoring me in it and basically. I did what I needed, which was to assign me homework. Read these three books, explain them to me, write this thing up.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:41] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e And I felt within two weeks, I had a very quick master\u0026#39;s class from somebody who\u0026#39;d built a programming language I respected. Because I was scared to go it alone. So I\u0026#39;m a firm believer and also just the way my brain works. I do need others to help me stay accountable to myself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:22:57] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e So that\u0026#39;s a huge part of it for me. [00:23:00] \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:02] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Plus one onto that. It was the people that I knew that were, had either previously been PMs. Who came from engineering, who came from more dev roles, people who up to like chief product officer level folks who had come into a startup as a PM for the first time in their careers and, grew, some large products it was all people who had been through untraditional.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:30] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Moves to PM. And I say that because I have a computer science degree that some of my classmates upon graduating went into APM or I think associate product manager type roles at your very traditional type companies, Google at the time, Twitter had a really good APM program that I think was pretty well respected and other places.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:23:53] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e And those were not the right people for me to be talking to because. They grew through those programs and they [00:24:00] came from university and it was just a totally different path. So I needed to figure out what my path would look like and that would be a little bit more traditional. And yeah.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:08] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e And the first time I liked it, I was like Googling interview stuff on YouTube was a very scary time. I did better with buying some books around like PM interviews and stuff. Those were like less I don\u0026#39;t know. Content influencer feeling to them. And so that also just helped me start thinking about, are there certain interview skills that I can improve on?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:31] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e And even talking to people who literally had roles that were open to hiring untraditional and getting advice from them. Their advice might be biased to the company that they were hiring for, but it definitely is. Thanks to DevRel build out these relationships that people are willing to talk to you that maybe before would have been a lot more of a cold email or, a lot harder to get into conversation with them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:24:58] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think that, that kind of [00:25:00] brings us back. How much do you think that DevRel actually helps you get out of DevRel? Like how much do you think about the foundations you build, the relationships you build, all of the people that you meet, whether, you know, virtually, I know I\u0026#39;ve met a few people that I\u0026#39;ve actually worked together with eventually and that we never met.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:16] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e We only ever conversed on Twitter. But at the same time, like through DevRel, I met them and we recreated this relationship. Do you think people who are in DevRel have a leg up when they\u0026#39;re ready to get out? They can say, listen, I\u0026#39;ve got all these things.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:28] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I can go use my plethora of connections and leverage my network and go do it. Do you think that they\u0026#39;re starting from behind because they\u0026#39;ve done DevRel for so many years? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:39] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh man, it\u0026#39;s \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:40] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e just the hardest question I could possibly ask. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:42] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e I\u0026#39;m like, I\u0026#39;m gonna call a false dichotomy. Okay. I\u0026#39;m trying to boil it down into a question.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:25:47] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e I respect what you\u0026#39;re going for, but like where my brain goes oh man, that depends so much about the individual person and how, what are they actually struggling with this transition? If it\u0026#39;s a [00:26:00] identity thing, like for me I threw my identity into DevRel. Like I was on social media platforms every day, talking to you all at, in the night I was podcasting and contributing to open source, it was a real like moment of pulling back the layers of who I see myself as and seeing what\u0026#39;s left.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:20] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e If I don\u0026#39;t do that stuff and I don\u0026#39;t get the immediate retweets that I got. So I think that was the most terrifying foundational thing for me. It didn\u0026#39;t have to do with job titles. It was like, how do I see myself? So that\u0026#39;s what hits me. And Taylor, how about you? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:35] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. It depends so much on the person.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:26:37] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e My answer is yes and no. I. Have been in interview processes where I felt like they were hinting towards the fact because I had spent nine years in Deverell that I may have potentially not been technical enough, which was a really hard thing for me because I was like, wait, how are you even evaluating that. I think yeah, it depends. And it depends on the type of work that you had [00:27:00] done in DevRel. If you had been doing super code heavy DevRel where you\u0026#39;re maintaining multiple libraries for a company or something like that would obviously not have come up in their interview.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:13] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think it heavily depends. I almost started taking some interviews for product marketing manager. I probably would have gotten some questions around you hadn\u0026#39;t done some of the traditional marketing parts either.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:25] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e I feel like that would have probably come up in some of those interviews and I would have had to justify yeah, I actually have though, like maybe I wasn\u0026#39;t responsible for some of those metrics, but at times just because it wasn\u0026#39;t. Entirely my role. It was just a hat that I put on to help out and be a team player.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:42] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e But yeah, I feel like any role you\u0026#39;re going to go to, you\u0026#39;re going to struggle, if you\u0026#39;re going more engineering heavy, like I would definitely say that some devil folks are going, unless they\u0026#39;ve been somehow involved in the production level. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:56] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e A \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:27:57] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e a bit behind rusty if they\u0026#39;ve done it before and [00:28:00] had gone to Deverell and then we\u0026#39;re trying to go back or just a little bit behind.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:04] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e And so again, what Matt was talking about earlier. Try to map some of the things that you\u0026#39;ve done to what they actually really need and just try to show that your other positive attributes could, level out some of the ones that maybe you might be a little bit weaker in.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:23] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Perfect. That\u0026#39;s actually what I was looking for. I wanted to trap both of you with the false dichotomy into the, it depends on the answer because every DevRel answer involves, it depends. So like for me, that was a trick and I won. But so if you\u0026#39;re listening to the recording of this, we\u0026#39;re going to take a quick break for our sponsor and then we\u0026#39;re going to get into checkouts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:41] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e First of all, thank you, Matt and Taylor for coming.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:28:44] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e This has been great. All your. Expertise and insight has been super helpful. And it\u0026#39;s just great to see both of you also it\u0026#39;s been forever. So thank you. My checkout for today is it\u0026#39;s an event that data dog, my employer is going to be putting on in June at the end of June it\u0026#39;s [00:29:00] called dash, it\u0026#39;s our big user conference and.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:04] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e Registration is open and it\u0026#39;s actually surprisingly like filling up already. We\u0026#39;ve got a bunch of workshops that are already full. And I guess, there\u0026#39;s a buzz around the office about how fast things are filling up. And I\u0026#39;m just putting the word out there that if you want to come, if you\u0026#39;re in the New York area now\u0026#39;s the time because it\u0026#39;s actually going to sell out pretty quickly here.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:20] \u003cstrong\u003eJason Hand:\u003c/strong\u003e So anyway, that\u0026#39;s all. Just focused on that event, even though it\u0026#39;s still almost two months away, but that\u0026#39;s my main checkout for this week. And then let\u0026#39;s hand it over to Mary, are you ready for your checkout? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:31] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e I am. So I\u0026#39;ve got two, one that\u0026#39;s not at all community related and one that very much is so the one that\u0026#39;s not is a book that I am most of the way through and it\u0026#39;s been fantastic.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:43] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s called the humans by Matt,\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:29:48] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e And it\u0026#39;s an alien who winds up on earth and has to learn about humans and who we are and why we act the way that we do and what makes us [00:30:00] interesting. And it\u0026#39;s just, I, it was not a book that I thought I would enjoy as much as I have. But it\u0026#39;s been. Fantastic. And one of those is like I\u0026#39;ll be reading it and laugh out loud and go, wait a second, Jeremy\u0026#39;s asleep next to me.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:13] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e I need to be quieter. And it\u0026#39;s just so good. So I highly recommend that. And then the second thing is if you\u0026#39;re familiar with the contributor covenant. They have a code of conduct that different teams can adopt for their projects. They\u0026#39;re working on V3 of their code of conduct and they\u0026#39;re looking for feedback on how community builders have implemented and enforced code of conducts, in the past.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:39] \u003cstrong\u003eMary Thengvall:\u003c/strong\u003e So they\u0026#39;re looking for people to take their survey. We\u0026#39;ll have a link to that in the show notes. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:46] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Awesome. As a former contributor to the contributor covenant, I highly recommend getting involved really helps to build safe and inclusive spaces. So please, definitely check it out. Let\u0026#39;s go Taylor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:30:57] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. So mine is a book that [00:31:00] I\u0026#39;m about a little over half done with. It\u0026#39;s called range by David Epstein. The subtitle is why generalists triumph in a specialized world. I think I\u0026#39;ve always really struggled with the fact that I was a generalist, as like a negative thing as like a thing that I needed to improve about myself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:31:16] \u003cstrong\u003eTaylor Barnett-Torabi:\u003c/strong\u003e Somehow I needed to be less of a generalist. And reading it with the scientific backing to it has made me feel a little bit more powerful as a generalist and also just tried to find The strengths more rather than the negatives. And yeah that\u0026#39;s mine.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:31:35] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Super cool. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:31:36] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e Sure. Yeah. First one just on the theme of PMs and getting jobs in it. I was going back through Taylor, I hope this isn\u0026#39;t one of the cheesy ones from your list because it hit home for me, the product manager interview by Louis C. Lynn. It\u0026#39;s just like a gauntlet of questions and a couple really easy to remember frameworks that give you a cheat sheet.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:31:58] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e And that\u0026#39;s how my [00:32:00] brain works. I need reps and I need systems. So if that tracks for you, that really set me up with something to start with. And then I\u0026#39;m really freaking excited about ADRs lately, which sounds so boring because it\u0026#39;s just a way to record a decision. But what\u0026#39;s really powerful about it is like, it ends up being like the nucleus of how the organism of an organization functions, if you can get there. If we have agreed that this is true. Therefore, whatever you\u0026#39;re building, better come back to this principle. And it gets a lot of wasteful meetings, wasteful back and forths.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:32:37] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e People are able to self monitor their alignment and by design, they\u0026#39;re meant to be superseded and updated regularly. So there\u0026#39;s some really cool ideas in it. There are a couple of good frameworks out there and I am deep in it more than I probably need to be, but it\u0026#39;s really fun. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:32:55] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I think one of the things that I always appreciate about you, Matt, is you\u0026#39;re always deep in it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:32:59] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e And I know that I can, [00:33:00] if you\u0026#39;re going to give us something, it\u0026#39;s because you\u0026#39;ve done the research. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:33:03] \u003cstrong\u003eMatt Broberg:\u003c/strong\u003e My wife calls me a deep hobbyist and she is not wrong. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:33:06] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. It\u0026#39;s only problematic when we look at the amount of money spent on the hobby. Wesley, what did you got? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:33:13] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e So in March I had the pleasure or the honor to go to South by Southwest.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:33:19] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e And I\u0026#39;ve gone every year I\u0026#39;ve gone to every South by physical or virtual since 2008. So it\u0026#39;s a place that I go to get new ideas and the new outlooks on things. But this year I had the pleasure of being a featured speaker at South by Southwest which was very new to me. And it was very nerve wracking.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:33:42] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e Talk to Taylor about that. We were in Austin together. And so like it was, I was so nervous on the stage that I actually didn\u0026#39;t remember a big chunk of what I said. And what I did was when the talk was published on YouTube, I went, I listened to it, watched it [00:34:00] and critiqued it as you do. But the thing that showed up as a recommended video, like on the sidebar was this talk from South by as well from Amy Gallo.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:34:10] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e This is how teams can skip the drama and embrace healthy conflict. And part of this talk. There\u0026#39;s also the, what is it? The adage that you don\u0026#39;t quit companies, you quit managers were a lot of some of the problems that we probably have.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:34:28] \u003cstrong\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/strong\u003e This role is dealing with some people and not being able to have healthy conflict either from their part or our part or both so this was a great video to watch to cement some ways to get around it and also to reinforce best practices. It\u0026#39;s great to share if you want to send it to someone, if you\u0026#39;re in that situation as well.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:34:48] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Cool. Awesome. Thanks, Wesley. For me, I\u0026#39;ve got a couple of things. First of all, it\u0026#39;s spring and spring means that it\u0026#39;s time to go and see concerts again. So there\u0026#39;s a lot of great music coming out. So the first thing that I want to mention is Gary [00:35:00] Clark Jr., who is a prominent blues guitarist, actually from Austin, Texas.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:04] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Well known for a lot of his blues albums has a new album out called JPEG raw. It\u0026#39;s different. It\u0026#39;s more of an R and B almost hip hoppy. guest features. Super awesome album. Personally, I think the last track habits is probably one of the best songs I\u0026#39;ve heard in a long time. If not probably the number one song, 2024.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:22] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Secondly, Frank Turner, another great guitarist from the UK has a new album. Just dropped today called undefeated, highly recommended. It\u0026#39;s very self reflective. Let\u0026#39;s think about how I do things. Things can get better if we keep working at the kind of attitude behind Frank Turner\u0026#39;s music.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:37] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e So check that out. If you\u0026#39;re going to go and support these artists, go out to your concerts and look good. I\u0026#39;ve been using a company for a long time called geeky jerseys. This is if you have a fandom that you\u0026#39;re really into, they probably have a Jersey that fits that. They do a lot of stuff with Kevin Smith and Star Wars and Star Trek.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:35:53] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e I have a Buffy baseball jersey. I have a Cthulhu hockey Jersey. My son has a hockey Jersey. It\u0026#39;s really cool. They [00:36:00] also do hats and shirts and stuff. So geeky jerseys, check them out. With that, while you\u0026#39;re thinking about change and growth and everything, I want to say, thank you so much, Matt and Taylor.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:36:09] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e It\u0026#39;s so awesome that you\u0026#39;re able to come and spend time with us and tell us about your journeys. As always, Wesley, Mary, Jason. It\u0026#39;s always great to have a show with you. Before we go, I always like to end with a quote, and I know that I\u0026#39;m making a statement by whose quote I picked this week, but those who know anyway, the message I\u0026#39;m sending to myself, I can\u0026#39;t change the world until I change myself first.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[00:36:30] \u003cstrong\u003ePJ Haggerty:\u003c/strong\u003e Kendrick Lamar With that, thank you. From the Community Pulse, say stay safe and we\u0026#39;ll see you next time\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Matt Broberg and Taylor Barnett-Torabi.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Developer Relations has gone through quite a few changes over the last few years. In that vein, some people have found new skills in the ever-evolving world of tech. Along their journey, they moved away from DevRel, but still use those abilities in new ways. So, what is it like when you bounce from DevRel?","date_published":"2024-05-15T08:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/d21ed84a-99df-4325-8da6-99901e952dfd.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":85271116,"duration_in_seconds":2664}]},{"id":"1e86cbc4-9409-4dbe-8e2b-3bdd2ac5ee09","title":"After Pulse: Live Streaming","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/88ap","content_text":"Our hosts elaborate on the notion that, apart from speaking engagements, much of the work undertaken by DevRel professionals remains backstage, yet through live streaming, they can learn publicly and involve community members, overcoming concerns and fostering engaging content for community learning.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eOur hosts elaborate on the notion that, apart from speaking engagements, much of the work undertaken by DevRel professionals remains backstage, yet through live streaming, they can learn publicly and involve community members, overcoming concerns and fostering engaging content for community learning.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Our hosts elaborate on the notion that, apart from speaking engagements, much of the work undertaken by DevRel professionals remains backstage, yet through live streaming, they can learn publicly and involve community members, overcoming concerns and fostering engaging content for community learning.","date_published":"2024-04-12T05:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/1e86cbc4-9409-4dbe-8e2b-3bdd2ac5ee09.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":48537516,"duration_in_seconds":1213}]},{"id":"7c77b03d-1e33-4f03-8d32-37b87435b599","title":"Live Streaming (Ep 88)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/88-live-streaming","content_text":"With the exception of speaking at conferences, much of what we do as DevRel professionals is behind-the-scenes. However, with live streaming, we’re able to not only learn in public, but bring our community members into the experience. \n\nWhile this can be intimidating, and lead to questions like “what if I make a mistake?” - or -  “What if I don’t know all the answers?” - or -  “How do I make sure I come across as knowledgeable while I’m also learning?” it can also be a great way to create engaging content that helps your community learn alongside you.\n\nCheckouts\nLaurent Bugnion\n\n\nLearn Live - the show I produce for Microsoft\nGalaSoft - my website with my blog, past presentations and future appearances\n\n\nDarko Mesaros\n\n\nAWS Community - Livestreams\nrup12\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nSpyware leak offers ‘first-of-its-kind’ look inside Chinese government hacking efforts\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\n“Use Gemini AI to improve productivity while using Datadog” @ Google Next\nDatadog On Data Science\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nThe Roaring Days of Zora Lily (and everything by Noelle Salazar)\nTimeshifter - app for avoiding jetlag \n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Darko Mesaros and Laurent Bugnion.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWith the exception of speaking at conferences, much of what we do as DevRel professionals is behind-the-scenes. However, with live streaming, we’re able to not only learn in public, but bring our community members into the experience. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWhile this can be intimidating, and lead to questions like “what if I make a mistake?” - or -  “What if I don’t know all the answers?” - or -  “How do I make sure I come across as knowledgeable while I’m also learning?” it can also be a great way to create engaging content that helps your community learn alongside you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nLaurent Bugnion\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/learn-live/?WT.mc_id=academic-0000-lbugnion\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLearn Live\u003c/a\u003e - the show I produce for Microsoft\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://galasoft.ch/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGalaSoft\u003c/a\u003e - my website with my blog, past presentations and future appearances\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDarko Mesaros\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://community.aws/livestreams\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAWS Community - Livestreams\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.rup12.net/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003erup12\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/23/isoon-china-government-hacking-spyware-leak/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpyware leak offers ‘first-of-its-kind’ look inside Chinese government hacking efforts\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://cloud.withgoogle.com/next/speakers?session=OPS206\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e“Use Gemini AI to improve productivity while using Datadog”\u003c/a\u003e @ Google Next\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://datadogon.datadoghq.com/episodes/datadog-on-data-science/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDatadog On Data Science\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/3uIwpUg\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Roaring Days of Zora Lily\u003c/a\u003e (and everything by Noelle Salazar)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.timeshifter.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTimeshifte\u003c/a\u003er - app for avoiding jetlag \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Darko Mesaros and Laurent Bugnion.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"With the exception of speaking at conferences, much of what we do as DevRel professionals is behind-the-scenes. However, with live streaming, we’re able to not only learn in public, but bring our community members into the experience. \r\nWhile this can be intimidating, and lead to questions like “what if I make a mistake?” - or -  “What if I don’t know all the answers?” - or -  “How do I make sure I come across as knowledgeable while I’m also learning?” it can also be a great way to create engaging content that helps your community learn alongside you.","date_published":"2024-04-05T04:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/7c77b03d-1e33-4f03-8d32-37b87435b599.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":111700552,"duration_in_seconds":2792}]},{"id":"bf9fca69-d056-4155-a241-c0a206dfa9b1","title":"After Pulse: DevRel Wins","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/87ap","content_text":"PJ and Wesley expound on stories of success, what it takes to get to a \"win\" and reflect on their conversation with Ole and Kevin.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003ePJ and Wesley expound on stories of success, what it takes to get to a \u0026quot;win\u0026quot; and reflect on their conversation with Ole and Kevin.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"PJ and Wesley expound on stories of success, what it takes to get to a \"win\" and reflect on their conversation with Ole and Kevin.","date_published":"2024-03-22T08:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/bf9fca69-d056-4155-a241-c0a206dfa9b1.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":31510904,"duration_in_seconds":787}]},{"id":"63889de0-fc52-4fc4-9224-8dc279bee3b8","title":"DevRel Wins (Ep 87)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/87-devrel-wins","content_text":"Sharing success stories can be helpful in finding what the next step is for your Developer Relations and Community team. That one project that just went perfectly; that moment that showed everyone things were moving forward. Today we’ll share the vision, strategy, approach, and bumps along the way and the end result…some stories of wins that will lead us forward.\n\nCheckouts\n\nKevin Blanco\n\n\nDavinci Resolve \u0026amp; Storytelling for DevRel\nLive every week Davinci Resolve \u0026amp; Storytelling for DevRel\n\n\nOle Hejlskov\n\n\nPost-layoff assistance to find new positions - take it!\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nBioDrop - Heard from Eddie Jaoude\nTech Industry Mass Layoffs\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nSunny Day Real Estate by Novum Vetus\n\n\nArtwork photo by Jason Dent\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Kevin Blanco and Ole Hejlskov.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eSharing success stories can be helpful in finding what the next step is for your Developer Relations and Community team. That one project that just went perfectly; that moment that showed everyone things were moving forward. Today we’ll share the vision, strategy, approach, and bumps along the way and the end result…some stories of wins that will lead us forward.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eKevin Blanco\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://davinci.mov/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDavinci Resolve \u0026amp; Storytelling for DevRel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinblanco/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLive every week Davinci Resolve \u0026amp; Storytelling for DevRel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eOle Hejlskov\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ePost-layoff assistance to find new positions - take it!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.biodrop.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBioDrop\u003c/a\u003e - Heard from Eddie Jaoude\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/UcSYHOubzJk\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTech Industry Mass Layoffs\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/track/1OlbUQSGl2vsB1S7CaprIw\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSunny Day Real Estate\u003c/a\u003e by Novum Vetus\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@jdent?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJason Dent\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Kevin Blanco and Ole Hejlskov.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Sharing success stories can be helpful in finding what the next step is for your Developer Relations and Community team. That one project that just went perfectly; that moment that showed everyone things were moving forward. Today we’ll share the vision, strategy, approach, and bumps along the way and the end result… some stories of wins that will lead us forward.","date_published":"2024-03-08T08:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/63889de0-fc52-4fc4-9224-8dc279bee3b8.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":110345513,"duration_in_seconds":2740}]},{"id":"eb4748cd-16ae-4113-8d8a-6fe0cf453761","title":"After Pulse: Mentoring","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/86ap","content_text":"Wesley, PJ, and Jason wrap up their conversation about mentoring as well as being a mentee.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWesley, PJ, and Jason wrap up their conversation about mentoring as well as being a mentee.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Wesley, PJ, and Jason wrap up their conversation about mentoring as well as being a mentee.","date_published":"2024-02-23T10:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/eb4748cd-16ae-4113-8d8a-6fe0cf453761.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":16840298,"duration_in_seconds":1008}]},{"id":"b8975f1c-86fa-441b-a487-dbd5a44c3884","title":"Mentoring: Leading the Future (Ep 86)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/86-mentoring","content_text":"Part of the road to being better at Developer Relations is applying what we’ve learned and passing that knowledge on to others. Whether you are a direct mentor or leading a team of folks new to DevRel, it’s important to take stock of what we are doing and how we can best serve the people we know with the knowledge we have. \n\nCheckouts\n\nTessa Kriesel\n\n\nDevRel Day in the Life\nMinicow Cross Breeds\n\n\nRosie Sherry\n\n\nCommunity Economies: Reframing Wealth Building\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nWhy Platformer is leaving Substack\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nKim Jin San - you may have seen his guitar playing all over social media, but he has even more really great music.\nThe Mars Room by Rachel Kushner - great book from the author of The Flamethrowers\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nWiring the Winning Organization: Liberating Our Collective Greatness through Slowification, Simplification, and Amplification by Gene Kim\nNvidia GTC Conf\nDatadog On\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Rosie Sherry and Tessa Kriessl.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003ePart of the road to being better at Developer Relations is applying what we’ve learned and passing that knowledge on to others. Whether you are a direct mentor or leading a team of folks new to DevRel, it’s important to take stock of what we are doing and how we can best serve the people we know with the knowledge we have. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eTessa Kriesel\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.learndevrel.com/tag/day-in-the-life/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel Day in the Life\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.homesteadherds.com/mini-crossbreeds-better-for-homesteads/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMinicow Cross Breeds\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eRosie Sherry\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.homesteadherds.com/mini-crossbreeds-better-for-homesteads/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCommunity Economies: Reframing Wealth Building\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.platformer.news/why-platformer-is-leaving-substack/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWhy Platformer is leaving Substack\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/album/0Kkc5MPB4rGHjibTvhjPMw?si=Wd_x6-ZkQaaTqN-aglJqbg\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eKim Jin San\u003c/a\u003e - you may have seen his guitar playing all over \u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/6EV1FMcNbxw?si=_ftM5nEpsEStzus0\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003esocial media\u003c/a\u003e, but he has even more really great music.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Mars-Room-Novel-Rachel-Kushner-ebook/dp/B075RX1YLM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3B4GDQZQKLHJ9\u0026dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5G-M76K1eQ6Rk8cszbSbV-qnZ-fOT0XOwWZ-EbKMqDSC3NviaKXEf7q3yptLs9dY_Mk4TntUJw8bGQp5ImiQf4FfPlgzgQE-9SRA17hrYVpML5pJ8HrKzHb8L6LJXyDK4Z8sUhENs2HEBkg5WI2xhhmO4aEIxRuXYxMVfRFUcDnE6bHsctFbVvb454xxIV9DZP2QtFv2-SY67Hb3l3tdCUX2ltkfUlprhksgCCPfYeA.r78wfy3gX1qS_bJ3CI2ppfDHNjnZ0LRIA7E4VbH8-ec\u0026dib_tag=se\u0026keywords=The+Mars+Room\u0026qid=1705687372\u0026sprefix=the+mars+room%2Caps%2C97\u0026sr=8-1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Mars Room by Rachel Kushner\u003c/a\u003e - great book from the author of The Flamethrowers\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Wiring-Winning-Organization-Slowification-Simplification/dp/1950508420\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWiring the Winning Organization: Liberating Our Collective Greatness through Slowification, Simplification, and Amplification\u003c/a\u003e by Gene Kim\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.nvidia.com/gtc/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNvidia GTC Conf\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://datadogon.datadoghq.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDatadog On\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Rosie Sherry and Tessa Kriessl.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Part of the road to being better at Developer Relations is applying what we’ve learned and passing that knowledge on to others. Whether you are a direct mentor or leading a team of folks new to DevRel, it’s important to take stock of what we are doing and how we can best serve the people we know with the knowledge we have. ","date_published":"2024-02-16T10:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/b8975f1c-86fa-441b-a487-dbd5a44c3884.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":99790939,"duration_in_seconds":2476}]},{"id":"38eb517b-ce64-4d87-b61e-4ddb5a5a6814","title":"2023 Year in Review (Ep 85)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/85","content_text":"Our Community Pulse hosts take a look back at 2023 - the episodes, the patterns, and our observations.\n\nCheckouts\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nGo see live music and support your local musicians!\nBaldur's Gate 3 deserves to be Game of the Year\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nThe Midnight Library\nA Court of Thorns and Roses\nFourth Wing\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nKindle Unlimited subscription - $11.99/month for unlimited ebooks and audiobooks!\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nTesla is having issues producing 4680 cells for Cybertruck, sketchy report says | Electrek\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eOur Community Pulse hosts take a look back at 2023 - the episodes, the patterns, and our observations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eGo see live music and support your local musicians!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://baldursgate3.game/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBaldur\u0026#39;s Gate 3\u003c/a\u003e deserves to be Game of the Year\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/47bcIkU\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Midnight Library\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/41B0zEL\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eA Court of Thorns and Roses\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/3RSxvp3\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFourth Wing\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/3RCVaIG\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eKindle Unlimited subscription\u003c/a\u003e - $11.99/month for unlimited ebooks and audiobooks!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://electrek.co/2023/12/21/tesla-issues-producing-4680-cells-cybertruck-sketchy-report/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTesla is having issues producing 4680 cells for Cybertruck, sketchy report says | Electrek\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Our Community Pulse hosts take a look back at 2023.","date_published":"2023-12-22T14:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/38eb517b-ce64-4d87-b61e-4ddb5a5a6814.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":38965432,"duration_in_seconds":2435}]},{"id":"437e9667-ca94-4ca5-95ce-97db697ec0b0","title":"After Pulse: 2023 Compensation \u0026 Culture Survey","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/84ap","content_text":"Mary, PJ, and Jason wrap up their conversation of the Common Room survey and what it might mean for the industry moving forward.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eMary, PJ, and Jason wrap up their conversation of the Common Room survey and what it might mean for the industry moving forward.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary, PJ, and Jason wrap up their conversation of the Common Room survey and what it might mean for the industry moving forward.","date_published":"2023-11-30T04:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/437e9667-ca94-4ca5-95ce-97db697ec0b0.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":18708623,"duration_in_seconds":1169}]},{"id":"f96e7e8d-ceb2-4d35-9ca6-b7f353c60910","title":"2023 DevRel Compensation \u0026 Culture Survey (Ep 84)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/84-2023-devrel-survey","content_text":"As the industry continues to change, keeping a pulse on it becomes even more difficult. Luckily, the team over at Common Room partnered with a number of DevRel professionals (some of whom are on this call!) to create a survey focused on DevRel compensation as well as roles and responsibilities, business impact, success metrics, and personal wellbeing. In this episode, we’ll talk about the results of the survey and learn what we can do to push the industry forward.\n\n2023 Common Room Survey Results Overview\n\nCheckouts\nRebecca Marshburn\n\n\nThe Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How our Government Segregated America by Richard Rothstein\nCommon Room DevRel playbooks - Like ‘How to automate your GitHub triage processes’ and ‘Easily meet your support SLAs’: \nre:Invent - come join our DevRel brunch! Invite here - open to all! \n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nNew Wu-Tang Single\nBoygenius - The Rest\nSouthern Rites - a Photo documentary\nOcean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nRe:invent Sessions\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nDemon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver\nP!nk - new(ish) album + concert experience\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nEpisode artwork by UX Indonesia on UnsplashSpecial Guest: Rebecca Marshburn.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAs the industry continues to change, keeping a pulse on it becomes even more difficult. Luckily, the team over at Common Room partnered with a number of DevRel professionals (some of whom are on this call!) to create a survey focused on DevRel compensation as well as roles and responsibilities, business impact, success metrics, and personal wellbeing. In this episode, we’ll talk about the results of the survey and learn what we can do to push the industry forward.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.commonroom.io/blog/2023-developer-relations-compensation-and-culture-report-overview/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e2023 Common Room Survey Results Overview\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nRebecca Marshburn\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Color-Law-Forgotten-Government-Segregated/dp/1631494538?\u0026linkCode=sl1\u0026tag=persea-20\u0026linkId=4c15702a44d9c65837b15d8b7d3976e7\u0026language=en_US\u0026ref_=as_li_ss_tl\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How our Government Segregated America\u003c/a\u003e by Richard Rothstein\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.commonroom.io/playbooks/?filters=community/developer-relations\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCommon Room DevRel playbooks\u003c/a\u003e - Like ‘How to automate your GitHub triage processes’ and ‘Easily meet your support SLAs’: \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ere:Invent - come join our DevRel brunch! \u003ca href=\"https://commonroombrunchinvegas.splashthat.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eInvite here\u003c/a\u003e - open to all! \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/track/3vTSGUgTcDJHO47dlkzDcU\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNew Wu-Tang Single\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/album/1n0esOkFQdL74PwMwTVgtz?si=QHLrBqmESzWpmFdqBOLSyg\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBoygenius - The Rest\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.eastman.org/doc-southernrites\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSouthern Rites - a Photo documentary\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Ocean-End-Lane-Novel/dp/0063070707\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOcean at the End of the Lane\u003c/a\u003e by Neil Gaiman\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://dtdg.co/3slq5ks\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRe:invent Sessions\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/3tImsVQ\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDemon Copperhead\u003c/a\u003e by Barbara Kingsolver\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eP!nk - \u003ca href=\"https://pink.lnk.to/TRUSTFALL\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003enew(ish) album\u003c/a\u003e + concert experience\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eEpisode artwork by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@uxindo?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUX Indonesia\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@uxindo?utm_content=creditCopyText\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_source=unsplash\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Rebecca Marshburn.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"As the industry continues to change, keeping a pulse on it becomes even more difficult. Luckily, the team over at Common Room partnered with a number of DevRel professionals (some of whom are on this call!) to create a survey focused on DevRel compensation as well as roles and responsibilities, business impact, success metrics, and personal wellbeing. In this episode, we’ll talk about the results of the survey and learn what we can do to push the industry forward.\r\n","date_published":"2023-11-22T08:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/f96e7e8d-ceb2-4d35-9ca6-b7f353c60910.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":112634130,"duration_in_seconds":2798}]},{"id":"22bb4f1a-8a3e-40bf-9485-52a5f8dc5338","title":"Thoughts from DevRelCon (Ep 83)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/83-thoughts-from-devrelcon","content_text":"Join Wesley and PJ at DevRelCon. Both keynote speakers at this year's event, they had the chance to connect with some fantastic attendees. Here is a conversation straight from Wesley, PJ, and other attendees at DevRelCon.\n\nArtwork by Jack Finnigan on Unsplash.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Alvin Bryan, Graham, and Kris Jenkins.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eJoin Wesley and PJ at DevRelCon. Both keynote speakers at this year\u0026#39;s event, they had the chance to connect with some fantastic attendees. Here is a conversation straight from Wesley, PJ, and other attendees at DevRelCon.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@jackofallstreets\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJack Finnigan\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@jackofallstreets\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Alvin Bryan, Graham, and Kris Jenkins.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Join Wesley and PJ at DevRelCon. Both keynote speakers at this year's event, they had the chance to connect with some fantastic attendees. Here is a conversation straight from Wesley, PJ, and other attendees at DevRelCon.","date_published":"2023-10-20T08:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/22bb4f1a-8a3e-40bf-9485-52a5f8dc5338.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":57942540,"duration_in_seconds":1430}]},{"id":"d4cf821c-8051-4b39-aa94-9fff8bdb53b0","title":"After Pulse: DevRel Hot Takes","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/82ap","content_text":"Are you ready for even more hot takes, strong opinions, fun and a little bit of snark? Join Wesley, Jason, and PJ as they continue the discussion. You won't want to miss it!\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAre you ready for even more hot takes, strong opinions, fun and a little bit of snark? Join Wesley, Jason, and PJ as they continue the discussion. You won\u0026#39;t want to miss it!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Are you ready for even more hot takes, strong opinions, fun and a little bit of snark? Join Wesley, Jason, and PJ as they continue the discussion. You won't want to miss it!","date_published":"2023-09-08T03:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/d4cf821c-8051-4b39-aa94-9fff8bdb53b0.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":43463090,"duration_in_seconds":1079}]},{"id":"10a49fe6-76fc-48bb-b423-f41adf648d0b","title":"DevRel Hot Takes (Ep 82)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/82-devrel-hot-takes","content_text":"We all know there is no end to the various perceptions around what it is we do and who we are. It’s something that makes defining Developer Relations difficult and makes it difficult to describe to others. So what are some of the touch points and touchier topics when it comes to DevRel?\n\nCheckouts\nSJ Morris\n\n\nlpubelts.com\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nI, Robot - Isaac Aslmov\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nBaldur’s Gate 3\nSunny Day Real Estate\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nWorkshop Week\nReliable Machine Learning: Applying SRE Principles to ML in Production\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork photo by Mockup Graphics on UnsplashSpecial Guest: SJ Morris.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWe all know there is no end to the various perceptions around what it is we do and who we are. It’s something that makes defining Developer Relations difficult and makes it difficult to describe to others. So what are some of the touch points and touchier topics when it comes to DevRel?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://lpubelts.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003elpubelts.com\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/I-Robot-Isaac-Asimov-audiobook/dp/B0002P0F2G/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=I%2C+Robot\u0026qid=1694104756\u0026s=books\u0026sr=1-1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eI, Robot - Isaac Aslmov\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://baldursgate3.game/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBaldur’s Gate 3\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://sunnyday.realestate/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSunny Day Real Estate\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.datadoghq.com/event/workshop-week-2023/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWorkshop Week\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Reliable-Machine-Learning-Principles-Production/dp/1098106229/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=sre+for+machine+learning+o%27reilly\u0026qid=1692981778\u0026sr=8-1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eReliable Machine Learning: Applying SRE Principles to ML in Production\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@mockupgraphics?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMockup Graphics\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@mockupgraphics?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: SJ Morris.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"We all know there is no end to the various perceptions around what it is we do and who we are. It’s something that makes defining Developer Relations difficult and makes it difficult to describe to others. So what are some of the touch points and touchier topics when it comes to DevRel?","date_published":"2023-09-07T00:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/10a49fe6-76fc-48bb-b423-f41adf648d0b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":124393429,"duration_in_seconds":3092}]},{"id":"023cb6ab-43d6-4158-8227-5e70ef2a6f3d","title":"After Pulse: Defining Your Role Before Someone Else Does","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/81ap","content_text":"Don't miss our hosts as they delve back into their takeaways from their conversation with Angie and Evan about the importance of clarifying and concentrating on your role.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eDon\u0026#39;t miss our hosts as they delve back into their takeaways from their conversation with Angie and Evan about the importance of clarifying and concentrating on your role.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Don't miss our hosts as they delve back into their takeaways from their conversation with Angie and Evan about the importance of clarifying and concentrating on your role.","date_published":"2023-08-18T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/023cb6ab-43d6-4158-8227-5e70ef2a6f3d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":42294251,"duration_in_seconds":1057}]},{"id":"a7ad2a91-e271-41ce-8d32-524b9dc14c6a","title":"Defining Your Role Before Someone Else Does (Ep 81)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/81-defining-your-role","content_text":"As we learned in Episode 79, “How We Broke DevRel as an Industry”, sometimes the people in charge may not know how to set you up for success. The tasks you’re expected to do can take you away from your core focus. In today’s episode, we’ll talk through how to define your role and defend your team against that very real possibility of being tasked with items that don’t belong within your purview.\n\nCheckouts\nEvan Hamilton\n\n\nFactfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong about the World by Hans Rosling\nPeople I Mostly Admire speaks to Chicago’s innovative sheriff\nChris Detzel\nCommunity Manager Breakfast\n\n\nAngie Jones\n\n\nChatGPT\nHackathons!\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nPositioning with April Dunford\nSetting up For Success in Your Next Role: Where to start?\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nDASH conference\nBeginners Guide to Sketchnoting: Focus Better, Learn Faster and Remember Longer by Drawing Your Notes by Ashton Rodenhiser\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nAmerican Dirt by Jeanine Cummins\nPuppy Training: Sexier than a Squirrel\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork photo by Paul Skorupskas on UnsplashSpecial Guests: Angie Jones and Evan Hamilton.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAs we learned in Episode 79, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/79-how-we-broke-devrel-as-an-industry\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHow We Broke DevRel as an Industry\u003c/a\u003e”, sometimes the people in charge may not know how to set you up for success. The tasks you’re expected to do can take you away from your core focus. In today’s episode, we’ll talk through how to define your role and defend your team against that very real possibility of being tasked with items that don’t belong within your purview.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nEvan Hamilton\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Factfulness-Reasons-World-Things-Better/dp/1250123828/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=580750427006\u0026hvdev=c\u0026hvlocphy=9010222\u0026hvnetw=g\u0026hvqmt=e\u0026hvrand=5641429314803382062\u0026hvtargid=kwd-429505407993\u0026hydadcr=22567_13493270\u0026keywords=factfulness+by+hans+rosling\u0026qid=1690810799\u0026s=books\u0026sr=1-1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFactfulness: Ten Reasons We\u0026#39;re Wrong about the World by Hans Rosling\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://freakonomics.com/podcast/chicagos-renegade-sheriff-wants-to-fix-law-enforcement/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePeople I Mostly Admire speaks to Chicago’s innovative sheriff\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://chrisdetzel.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChris Detzel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.evanhamilton.com/community-manager-breakfast/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCommunity Manager Breakfast\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAngie Jones\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChatGPT\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eHackathons!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://positioning.show\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePositioning with April Dunford\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.devrelx.com/post/setting-up-for-success-in-your-next-role-where-to-start\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSetting up For Success in Your Next Role: Where to start?\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.dashcon.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDASH conference\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://a.co/d/eSaombF\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBeginners Guide to Sketchnoting: Focus Better, Learn Faster and Remember Longer by Drawing Your Notes\u003c/a\u003e by Ashton Rodenhiser\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45721673-american-dirt\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAmerican Dirt\u003c/a\u003e by Jeanine Cummins\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://absolute-dogs.com/product/squirrel/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePuppy Training: Sexier than a Squirrel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@pawelskor?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePaul Skorupskas\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@pawelskor?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Angie Jones and Evan Hamilton.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"As we learned in Ep79, “How We Broke DevRel as an Industry”, sometimes the people in charge may not know how to set you up for success. The tasks you’re expected to do can take you away from your core focus. In today’s episode, we’ll talk through how to define your role and defend your team against that very real possibility of being tasked with items that don’t belong within your purview.","date_published":"2023-08-10T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/a7ad2a91-e271-41ce-8d32-524b9dc14c6a.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":95194636,"duration_in_seconds":2362}]},{"id":"3304dd81-d196-41c7-953b-f768df89dee4","title":"After Pulse: Who are the Ops Behind the DevRel Curtain?","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/80ap","content_text":"Tune in to PJ and Mary as they revisit their insightful discussion with Danielle and David on the subject of devops.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eTune in to PJ and Mary as they revisit their insightful discussion with Danielle and David on the subject of devops.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Tune in to PJ and Mary as they revisit their insightful discussion with Danielle and David on the subject of devops.","date_published":"2023-07-12T05:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/3304dd81-d196-41c7-953b-f768df89dee4.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":13675140,"duration_in_seconds":854}]},{"id":"242c17ec-7901-487e-8625-12a6a8813263","title":"Who are the Ops Behind the DevRel Curtain? (Ep 80)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/80-who-are-the-ops-behind-the-devrel-curtain","content_text":"Many see DevRel practitioners as up front, in the spotlight, on stage, or at least with their name on lots of content. What if we told you there were people behind the scenes making community operations their priority? What does that look like, and who are the people making the lives of DevRel folks easier? That’s the topic of today’s Community Pulse episode.\n\nShow Notes\nBlogposts about Community Operations roles:\n\n\nWhat do Community Operations Managers do? from CMX \nWhat does a community operations manager do? from Common Room \nCommunity Operations: A Beginner’s Guide from Commsor\n\n\nCheckouts\nDanielle Andrist\n\n\nMake - just discovered it so I can’t vouch for it yet but it’s like Zapier on steroids \nShift - just got a new work laptop so I had to update to the newest version of Shift, I’m on the alpha release with the new workspaces and I gotta say, it’s a huge improvement from the Shift version I was using (which to be fair, was several versions old)\n\n\nDavid Blank-Edelman\n\n\nMurmurs of Earth by Carl Sagan\nTartine Bread by Chad Robertson\nThe Perfect Loaf by Maurizio Leo\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nRever - motorcycle rider social media\nClearword - make meetings into action item lists (not just transcription, but actual things you can take action on)\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nWord by Word: The Secret Life of Dictionaries by Kory Stamper\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork photo by Moses Williams on UnsplashSpecial Guests:  David Blank-Edelman and Danielle Andrist.Sponsored By:DevRel Weekly: Unlike most other topics in tech, the problem with finding information about Developer Relations isn't figuring a way to sift through the myriad resources; it's finding those resources to begin with.\r\n\r\nDevRel Weekly brings you a curated list of articles, job postings, and events on a weekly basis, saving you the time and effort of scouring the web for the latest information. Instead, you can focus on how to grow a team, prove your business value, and build relationships with your community.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eMany see DevRel practitioners as up front, in the spotlight, on stage, or at least with their name on lots of content. What if we told you there were people behind the scenes making community operations their priority? What does that look like, and who are the people making the lives of DevRel folks easier? That’s the topic of today’s Community Pulse episode.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eShow Notes\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nBlogposts about Community Operations roles:\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.cmxhub.com/blog/community-operations-managers\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWhat do Community Operations Managers do?\u003c/a\u003e from CMX \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.commonroom.io/blog/what-does-a-community-operations-manager-do/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWhat does a community operations manager do?\u003c/a\u003e from Common Room \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.commsor.com/post/community-operations-beginners-guide\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCommunity Operations: A Beginner’s Guide\u003c/a\u003e from Commsor\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nDanielle Andrist\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.make.com/en\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMake\u003c/a\u003e - just discovered it so I can’t vouch for it yet but it’s like Zapier on steroids \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://tryshift.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eShift\u003c/a\u003e - just got a new work laptop so I had to update to the newest version of Shift, I’m on the alpha release with the new workspaces and I gotta say, it’s a huge improvement from the Shift version I was using (which to be fair, was several versions old)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDavid Blank-Edelman\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/263952\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMurmurs of Earth\u003c/a\u003e by Carl Sagan\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8185785-tartine-bread?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_7\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTartine Bread\u003c/a\u003e by Chad Robertson\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60279778-the-perfect-loaf?ref=nav_sb_ss_2_16\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Perfect Loaf\u003c/a\u003e by Maurizio Leo\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.rever.co/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRever\u003c/a\u003e - motorcycle rider social media\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://clearword.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eClearword\u003c/a\u003e - make meetings into action item lists (not just transcription, but actual things you can take action on)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34449897-word-by-word\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWord by Word\u003c/a\u003e: The Secret Life of Dictionaries by Kory Stamper\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/fr/@spacejunkpictures?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMoses Williams\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/fr/@spacejunkpictures?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests:  David Blank-Edelman and Danielle Andrist.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSponsored By:\u003c/p\u003e\u003cul\u003e\u003cli\u003e\u003ca rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://bit.ly/3XjRNJr\"\u003eDevRel Weekly\u003c/a\u003e: \u003ca rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://bit.ly/3XjRNJr\"\u003eUnlike most other topics in tech, the problem with finding information about Developer Relations isn\u0026#39;t figuring a way to sift through the myriad resources; it\u0026#39;s finding those resources to begin with.\r\n\r\nDevRel Weekly brings you a curated list of articles, job postings, and events on a weekly basis, saving you the time and effort of scouring the web for the latest information. Instead, you can focus on how to grow a team, prove your business value, and build relationships with your community.\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003c/ul\u003e","summary":"Many see DevRel practitioners as up front, in the spotlight, on stage, or at least with their name on lots of content. What if we told you there were people behind the scenes making community operations their priority? What does that look like, and who are the people making the lives of DevRel folks easier? That’s the topic of today’s Community Pulse episode.","date_published":"2023-06-23T08:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/242c17ec-7901-487e-8625-12a6a8813263.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":113745759,"duration_in_seconds":2825}]},{"id":"6d678668-e2c6-4d2b-9221-9a97ac8a32fa","title":"How We Broke DevRel as an Industry (Ep 79)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/79-how-we-broke-devrel-as-an-industry","content_text":"Over the course of its history, DevRel has changed and evolved, both in the day-to-day responsibilities but also in the identify of what DevRel is. \n\nExternal influences as well as internal influences have changed the definitions, expectations, and roles within DevRel, for better and for worse. in this episode, we’ll talk about\n\n\nwhat’s working\nwhat’s not working\nhow we can move forward to a future where DevRel makes sense. \n\n\nCheckouts\nBen Greenberg\n\n\nRationality: What It Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It Matters by Steven Pinke\n\n\nJason Lengstorf\n\n\nThe Range\n\n\nMia Moore\n\n\nChickpea Magazine: A whole foods vegan lifestyle magazine \u0026amp; blog\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nCrossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers by Geoffrey A. Moore\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nMusic League\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nWhalebone Magazine: “a community of like-minded individuals who all believe that being delightfully disoriented and putting some fun into the world isn’t the worst way to spend some time.”\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork photo by Jackson Simmer on UnsplashSpecial Guests: Ben Greenberg, Jason Lengstorf, and Mia Moore.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eOver the course of its history, DevRel has changed and evolved, both in the day-to-day responsibilities but also in the identify of what DevRel is. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eExternal influences as well as internal influences have changed the definitions, expectations, and roles within DevRel, for better and for worse. in this episode, we’ll talk about\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ewhat’s working\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ewhat’s not working\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ehow we can move forward to a future where DevRel makes sense. \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nBen Greenberg\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://stevenpinker.com/publications/rationality-what-it-why-it-seems-so-scarce-and-why-it-matters\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRationality: What It Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It Matters\u003c/a\u003e by Steven Pinke\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Lengstorf\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://davidepstein.com/the-range/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Range\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMia Moore\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://chickpeamagazine.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChickpea Magazine\u003c/a\u003e: A whole foods vegan lifestyle magazine \u0026amp; blog\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCrossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers\u003c/a\u003e by Geoffrey A. Moore\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://musicleague.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMusic League\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://whalebonemag.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWhalebone Magazine\u003c/a\u003e: “a community of like-minded individuals who all believe that being delightfully disoriented and putting some fun into the world isn’t the worst way to spend some time.”\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@simmerdownjpg?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJackson Simmer\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@simmerdownjpg?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Ben Greenberg, Jason Lengstorf, and Mia Moore.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Over the course of its history, DevRel has changed and evolved, both in the day-to-day responsibilities but also in the identify of what DevRel is. \r\n\r\nExternal influences as well as internal influences have changed the definitions, expectations, and roles within DevRel, for better and for worse. in this episode, we’ll talk about, what’s working, what’s not working, and how we can move forward to a future where DevRel makes sense. \r\n","date_published":"2023-06-09T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/6d678668-e2c6-4d2b-9221-9a97ac8a32fa.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80149270,"duration_in_seconds":1985}]},{"id":"2ef3053c-756e-4d06-9a18-6198d66e4f96","title":"Change is Good? (Ep 78)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/78-change-is-good","content_text":"There have been many hot takes and subtweets about the positive and negative connotations of having a robust list of companies on one’s DevRel resume. Is it a sign of success or a signal that things are more fluid than outsiders might assume? Let’s touch down on a touchy topic - DevRel Job Hopping!\n\nCheckouts\nAisha Blake\n\n\nThirsty Sword Lesbians roleplaying game\n\n\nChloe Condon\n\n\nSalute Your Skorts podcast\n\n\nMandy Moore: \n\n\nGreater than Code podcast (sponsorship opportunities: mandy@devreps.com)\n[Release Holistic Recovery](releaseholisticrecovery.com)\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nRadical Candor by Kim Scott\nJust Work by Kim Scott\nJust Work podcast\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nSpotify for Developers: On the Air! \nthe record (new album from boygenius)\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nBut What If We’re Wrong by Chuck Klosterman\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork photo by Nick Fewings on UnsplashSpecial Guests: Aisha Blake, Chloe Condon, and Mandy Moore.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eThere have been many hot takes and subtweets about the positive and negative connotations of having a robust list of companies on one’s DevRel resume. Is it a sign of success or a signal that things are more fluid than outsiders might assume? Let’s touch down on a touchy topic - DevRel Job Hopping!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nAisha Blake\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://evilhat.com/product/thirsty-sword-lesbians/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThirsty Sword Lesbians roleplaying game\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eChloe Condon\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://saluteyourskorts.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSalute Your Skorts podcast\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMandy Moore: \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.greaterthancode.com\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGreater than Code podcast\u003c/a\u003e (sponsorship opportunities: \u003ca href=\"mailto:mandy@devreps.com\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003emandy@devreps.com\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e[Release Holistic Recovery](releaseholisticrecovery.com)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/3AHv27s\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRadical Candor\u003c/a\u003e by Kim Scott\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/3AGFTie\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJust Work\u003c/a\u003e by Kim Scott\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.justworktogether.com/podcast\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJust Work podcast\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/1POdFZRZbvbqqillRxMr2z\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify for Developers: On the Air!\u003c/a\u003e \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.xboygeniusx.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ethe record\u003c/a\u003e (new album from boygenius)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/3oSV0T7\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBut What If We’re Wrong\u003c/a\u003e by Chuck Klosterman\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@jannerboy62?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNick Fewings\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@jannerboy62?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Aisha Blake, Chloe Condon, and Mandy Moore.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"There have been many hot takes and subtweets about the positive and negative connotations of having a robust list of companies on one’s DevRel resume. Is it a sign of success or a signal that things are more fluid than outsiders might assume? Let’s touch down on a touchy topic - DevRel Job Hopping!","date_published":"2023-05-09T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/2ef3053c-756e-4d06-9a18-6198d66e4f96.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":119379264,"duration_in_seconds":2976}]},{"id":"e63838b0-c03e-499b-a391-078eb2fe38a4","title":"After Pulse: Suddenly Unemployed","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/77ap","content_text":"Listen in as PJ and Wesley process their conversation with Erin, PJ Metz, and Jared and the changes in the tech employment landscape over the last few months. \n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eListen in as PJ and Wesley process their conversation with Erin, PJ Metz, and Jared and the changes in the tech employment landscape over the last few months. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Listen in as PJ and Wesley process their conversation with Erin, PJ Metz, and Jared and the changes in the tech employment landscape over the last few months. ","date_published":"2023-03-31T10:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/e63838b0-c03e-499b-a391-078eb2fe38a4.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":15151898,"duration_in_seconds":924}]},{"id":"0c6f0699-0fc6-44a0-83f8-4d1235735ab5","title":"Suddenly Unemployed (Ep 77)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/77-suddenly-unemployed","content_text":"We’ve seen a lot of strange habits when it comes to hiring DevRel folks over the past few years. But recently, a surprising phenomenon has occurred: a large-scale layoff or re-org leading to many folks in DevRel being suddenly unemployed. What are the knock-on effects we can expect from this? What are folks impacted by this doing as next steps?\n\nCheckouts\nJarek Jarzebowski\n\n\nDeveloper Ambassadors Motivation Survey 2023\n\"10% Happier: How I Tamed the Voice in My Head, Reduced Stress Without Losing My Edge, and Found Self-Help That Actually Works--A True Story\"  by Dan Harris\n\n\nPJ Metz\n\n\nCurrent music obsession: Dan Mason - Electric Elevator 2: Second Floor\n[Projectdiscovery.io](Projectdiscovery.io)\n\n\nErin Mikail Staples\n\n\nGenSpace NYC\nDevRelish\nLabelstud.io » integrations library and hugging face spaces\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\n Engineer, Male Engineer\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\n\"Do You Talk Funny?: 7 Comedy Habits to Become a Better (and Funnier) Public Speaker\" by David Nihil\nSpotify AI DJ\n[Open Sourcing Mental Health](OSMHhelp.org) - get ready for Mental Health Awareness month in May\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork photo by Clem Onojeghuo on UnsplashSpecial Guests: Erin Mikail Staples, Jarek Jarzebowski, and PJ Metz.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWe’ve seen a lot of strange habits when it comes to hiring DevRel folks over the past few years. But recently, a surprising phenomenon has occurred: a large-scale layoff or re-org leading to many folks in DevRel being suddenly unemployed. What are the knock-on effects we can expect from this? What are folks impacted by this doing as next steps?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJarek Jarzebowski\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.advocu.com/developer-ambassadors-motivation-survey-2023?trk=public_post_comment-text\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDeveloper Ambassadors Motivation Survey 2023\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/10-happier-how-i-tamed-the-voice-in-my-head-reduced-stress-without-losing-my-edge-and-found-self-help-that-actually-works--a-true-story_dan---harris/3223663/item/34958913/#edition=7654643\u0026idiq=4167572\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e\u0026quot;10% Happier: How I Tamed the Voice in My Head, Reduced Stress Without Losing My Edge, and Found Self-Help That Actually Works--A True Story\u0026quot; \u003c/a\u003e by Dan Harris\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Metz\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCurrent music obsession: \u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/ovpO-c0DpEI\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDan Mason - Electric Elevator 2: Second Floor\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e[Projectdiscovery.io](Projectdiscovery.io)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eErin Mikail Staples\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.genspace.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGenSpace NYC\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IICDgnu4-PI\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRelish\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://labelstud.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLabelstud.io\u003c/a\u003e » integrations library and hugging face spaces\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/845933925525600/posts/pfbid025SXD6Y2vGke5znJ8NxrczbZyEFHr2XvvVDYGTqYvTE9BK1b57fiuYVYiB3NoGswfl/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eEngineer, Male Engineer\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Do-You-Talk-Funny-David-Nihill-audiobook/dp/B018F3FTZY\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e\u0026quot;Do You Talk Funny?: 7 Comedy Habits to Become a Better (and Funnier) Public Speaker\u003c/a\u003e\u0026quot; by David Nihil\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://newsroom.spotify.com/2023-03-08/spotify-new-personalized-ai-dj-how-it-works/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify AI DJ\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e[Open Sourcing Mental Health](OSMHhelp.org) - get ready for Mental Health Awareness month in May\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@clemono?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eClem Onojeghuo\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@clemono?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Erin Mikail Staples, Jarek Jarzebowski, and PJ Metz.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"We’ve seen a lot of strange habits when it comes to hiring DevRel folks over the past few years. But recently, a surprising phenomenon has occurred: a large-scale layoff or re-org leading to many folks in DevRel being suddenly unemployed. What are the knock-on effects we can expect from this? What are folks impacted by this doing as next steps?","date_published":"2023-03-20T04:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/0c6f0699-0fc6-44a0-83f8-4d1235735ab5.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":43404829,"duration_in_seconds":2833}]},{"id":"d66a9997-5294-4bee-bceb-95d9d52a0c32","title":"After Pulse: Let's Chat About AI","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/76ap","content_text":"Wes and Jason talk through some of the nuance around using AI in devrel, including how it can benefit us and areas to be cautious in. \n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWes and Jason talk through some of the nuance around using AI in devrel, including how it can benefit us and areas to be cautious in. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Wes and Jason talk through some of the nuance around using AI in devrel, including how it can benefit us and areas to be cautious in. ","date_published":"2023-03-01T09:30:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/d66a9997-5294-4bee-bceb-95d9d52a0c32.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":19295032,"duration_in_seconds":1178}]},{"id":"79718861-25c9-4fcd-8710-b6c8725907e2","title":"Let's Chat About AI (Ep 76)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/76-lets-chat-about-ai","content_text":"As the world of Artificial Intelligence continues to evolve,it's increasingly evident that AI tools are rapidly changing the way we work in Developer Relations \u0026amp; Community Building. \n\nTools like ChatGPT and GitHub Copilot are transforming the landscape of our work by .. automating tedious and repetitive tasks ..providing valuable insights and analytics..and even helping to generate content on our behalf.\n\nHowever, the integration of AI into our industry also raises new questions. \nCan AI truly enhance the work of DevRel practitioners and allow us to focus on different challenges.. or will it end up diminishing our creativity and impact on supporting developers? \n\nHow do we make sure AI is used ethically and responsibly? \n\nAnd what impact will it have on the future of not only DevRel, but software development in general?\n\nJoin us as we explore the exciting world of AI in Developer Relations on this episode of \"The Community Pulse\". \n\nCheckouts\nChris DeMars\n\n\n3 Ways Feature Flags Could Have Saved Jurassic Park\nI’ll be at Orlando Codecamp in March; DEVNEXUS in Atlanta, Georgia, in April; and Chain React in Portland, Oregon, in May.\n\n\nRizel Scarlett\n\n\nDevRel for Black Developers\nFinding Me by Viola Davis\nBlackRel Discord - a discord for Black folks in Developer Relations - sign up form \n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nElk Alpha - A nimble Mastodon web client\nThe ChatGPT Cheat Sheet\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\n8 Things You Didn’t Know you Could do with GitHub CoPilot\nPlatonic : How the Science of Attachment Can Help You Make--and Keep--Friends by Dr. Marisa G. Franco\nLearning From Incidents Conference (in Denver)\nThe Darker Side of ChatGPT\nChatGPT for writing technical articles and documentation\nDeveloper Docs + GenAI\n\n\nAI Tools\n\n\nCaption: For Talking Videos\nNVIDIA: Eye Contact\nDescript\nGrammarly\n\n\nInteresting Articles\n\n\nThe Darker Side of ChatGPT\nChatGPT for writing technical articles and documentation\nDeveloper Docs + GenAI\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nArtwork photo by Emiliano Vittoriosi on UnsplashSpecial Guests: Chris DeMars and Rizel Scarlett.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAs the world of Artificial Intelligence continues to evolve,it\u0026#39;s increasingly evident that AI tools are rapidly changing the way we work in Developer Relations \u0026amp; Community Building. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eTools like ChatGPT and GitHub Copilot are transforming the landscape of our work by .. automating tedious and repetitive tasks ..providing valuable insights and analytics..and even helping to generate content on our behalf.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eHowever, the integration of AI into our industry also raises new questions. \u003cbr\u003e\nCan AI truly enhance the work of DevRel practitioners and allow us to focus on different challenges.. or will it end up diminishing our creativity and impact on supporting developers? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eHow do we make sure AI is used ethically and responsibly? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAnd what impact will it have on the future of not only DevRel, but software development in general?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJoin us as we explore the exciting world of AI in Developer Relations on this episode of \u0026quot;The Community Pulse\u0026quot;. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nChris DeMars\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.split.io/blog/3-ways-feature-flags-could-have-saved-jurassic-park/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e3 Ways Feature Flags Could Have Saved Jurassic Park\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eI’ll be at \u003ca href=\"https://orlandocodecamp.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOrlando Codecamp\u003c/a\u003e in March; \u003ca href=\"https://devnexus.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDEVNEXUS\u003c/a\u003e in Atlanta, Georgia, in April; and \u003ca href=\"https://chainreactconf.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChain React\u003c/a\u003e in Portland, Oregon, in May.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eRizel Scarlett\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/live/8AZyqiQ3RKc?feature=share\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel for Black Developers\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Me-Memoir-Viola-Davis/dp/0063037327\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e\u003cem\u003eFinding Me\u003c/em\u003e by Viola Davis\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eBlackRel Discord - a discord for Black folks in Developer Relations -\u003ca href=\"https://tinyurl.com/blackrel-discord\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e sign up form \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://elk.zone\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eElk Alpha\u003c/a\u003e - A nimble Mastodon web client\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UOfN0iB_A0rEGYc2CbYnpIF44FupQn2I/view\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe ChatGPT Cheat Sheet\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://github.blog/2022-09-14-8-things-you-didnt-know-you-could-do-with-github-copilot/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e8 Things You Didn’t Know you Could do with GitHub CoPilot\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cem\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Platonic-Science-Attachment-Make-Keep-Friends/dp/0593331893\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePlatonic : How the Science of Attachment Can Help You Make--and Keep--Friends\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/em\u003e by Dr. Marisa G. Franco\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.learningfromincidents.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLearning From Incidents Conference\u003c/a\u003e (in Denver)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://towardsdatascience.com/not-all-rainbows-and-sunshine-the-darker-side-of-chatgpt-75917472b9c\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Darker Side of ChatGPT\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://blog.almaer.com/developer-docs-genai-%e2%9d%a4%ef%b8%8f/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChatGPT for writing technical articles and documentation\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://blog.almaer.com/developer-docs-genai-%e2%9d%a4%ef%b8%8f/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDeveloper Docs + GenAI\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eAI Tools\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://apps.apple.com/us/app/captions-for-talking-videos/id1541407007\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCaption: For Talking Videos\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/broadcasting/broadcast-app/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNVIDIA: Eye Contact\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.descript.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDescript\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.grammarly.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGrammarly\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eInteresting Articles\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://towardsdatascience.com/not-all-rainbows-and-sunshine-the-darker-side-of-chatgpt-75917472b9c\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Darker Side of ChatGPT\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://blog.almaer.com/developer-docs-genai-%e2%9d%a4%ef%b8%8f/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChatGPT for writing technical articles and documentation\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://blog.almaer.com/developer-docs-genai-%e2%9d%a4%ef%b8%8f/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDeveloper Docs + GenAI\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@emilianovittoriosi?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eEmiliano Vittoriosi\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@emilianovittoriosi?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Chris DeMars and Rizel Scarlett.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"As the world of Artificial Intelligence continues to evolve,it's increasingly evident that AI tools are rapidly changing the way we work in Developer Relations \u0026 Community Building. How do we make sure AI is used ethically and responsibly? And what impact will it have on the future of not only DevRel, but software development in general? Join us as we explore the exciting world of AI in Developer Relations on this episode of \"The Community Pulse\". ","date_published":"2023-02-24T09:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/79718861-25c9-4fcd-8710-b6c8725907e2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":40610243,"duration_in_seconds":2510}]},{"id":"2cc11ea5-7203-4b78-bead-e06d8112a3b0","title":"DevRelCon Advice (Ep 75)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/75-devrelcon-advice","content_text":"To kick off 2023 in style, PJ spoke with several DevRel practitioners to get their advice to fellow folks in DevRel and people new to the industry looking for more information on how to do the best they can. Ranging from practical, to witty, to inspirational, these words of wisdom should help anyone on their journey.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nPhoto by frame harirak on Unsplash","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eTo kick off 2023 in style, PJ spoke with several DevRel practitioners to get their advice to fellow folks in DevRel and people new to the industry looking for more information on how to do the best they can. Ranging from practical, to witty, to inspirational, these words of wisdom should help anyone on their journey.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/it/@framemily?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eframe harirak\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/it/@framemily?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"To kick off 2023 in style, PJ spoke with several DevRel practitioners to get their advice to fellow folks in DevRel and people new to the industry looking for more information on how to do the best they can. Ranging from practical, to witty, to inspirational, these words of wisdom should help anyone on their journey.","date_published":"2023-01-13T08:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/2cc11ea5-7203-4b78-bead-e06d8112a3b0.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":21902608,"duration_in_seconds":536}]},{"id":"1d275baa-be7b-473b-8de6-9a3d39cd29e9","title":"So Long, 2022 (and Hello, 2023)! (Ep 74)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/74-so-long-2022","content_text":"We’re somehow already at the end of 2022, which means it’s time for another end-of-year wrap-up from your Community Pulse hosts! Thanks so much to all of you who have listened (and participated!) as we’ve explored topics from content to speaking, Developer Experience, DevRel strategy, and more. Join Mary, Jason, PJ, and Wesley as we talk about some of the trends we noticed during 2022 and what we think might happen in 2023.\n\nRelevant Links\n\n\nInteresting discussion about people leaving Twitter - where are they going and what’s the potential impact?\nDevRel Survey 2022 Results\n\n\n2022 Episodes\n\n\nDevRel: What’s Your Story - LIVE episode\nYour Content, Their Brand: episode \u0026amp; after pulse - Amara Graham \u0026amp; Henry Teegarden\nGrab the Mic: episode \u0026amp; after pulse - Kat Cosgrove \u0026amp; VM Brasseur\nMoving from Execution to Strategy: episode \u0026amp; after pulse - Ashley Willis \u0026amp; Mo McElaney\nSo Long, SJ, and thanks for all the Quips\nRediscovering In-Person Conferences: episode \u0026amp; after pulse - Jeff Blankenburg \u0026amp; Kerri Miller\nDevRel Survey 2022: episode \u0026amp; after pulse - Caroline Lewko\nWhere do you get started with Developer Experience?: episode \u0026amp; after pulse - Amara Graham \u0026amp; Kurt Kemple\nDevRel Beyond Developers: episode \u0026amp; after pulse - Jennifer Ritzinger \u0026amp; Matty Stratton\n\n\nPast EOY Wrap-ups\n\n\n2017\n2018\n2019\n2020\n2021 \n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n\nPhoto by Choong Deng Xiang on Unsplash","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWe’re somehow already at the end of 2022, which means it’s time for another end-of-year wrap-up from your Community Pulse hosts! Thanks so much to all of you who have listened (and participated!) as we’ve explored topics from content to speaking, Developer Experience, DevRel strategy, and more. Join Mary, Jason, PJ, and Wesley as we talk about some of the trends we noticed during 2022 and what we think might happen in 2023.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eRelevant Links\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/bryanl/status/1596512391264894976\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eInteresting discussion\u003c/a\u003e about people leaving Twitter - where are they going and what’s the potential impact?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.stateofdeveloperrelations.com/_files/ugd/383279_5b2cd6c61868495b98d2dac2f52b1d30.pdf\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel Survey 2022 Results\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e2022 Episodes\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/65-devrel-whats-your-story\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel: What’s Your Story\u003c/a\u003e - LIVE episode\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eYour Content, Their Brand: \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/66-your-content-their-brand\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eepisode\u003c/a\u003e \u0026amp; \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/66ap\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eafter pulse\u003c/a\u003e - Amara Graham \u0026amp; Henry Teegarden\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eGrab the Mic: \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/67-grab-the-mic\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eepisode\u003c/a\u003e \u0026amp; \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/67ap\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eafter pulse\u003c/a\u003e - Kat Cosgrove \u0026amp; VM Brasseur\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMoving from Execution to Strategy: \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/68-moving-from-execution-to-strategy\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eepisode\u003c/a\u003e \u0026amp; \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/68ap\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eafter pulse\u003c/a\u003e - Ashley Willis \u0026amp; Mo McElaney\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/69-so-long-sj\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSo Long, SJ, and thanks for all the Quips\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eRediscovering In-Person Conferences: \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/70-rediscovering-in-person-conferences\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eepisode\u003c/a\u003e \u0026amp; \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/70ap\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eafter pulse\u003c/a\u003e - Jeff Blankenburg \u0026amp; Kerri Miller\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRel Survey 2022: \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/71-devrel-survey-2022\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eepisode\u003c/a\u003e \u0026amp; \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/71ap\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eafter pulse\u003c/a\u003e - Caroline Lewko\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWhere do you get started with Developer Experience?: \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/72-developer-experience\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eepisode\u003c/a\u003e \u0026amp; \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/72ap\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eafter pulse\u003c/a\u003e - Amara Graham \u0026amp; Kurt Kemple\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRel Beyond Developers: \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/73-devrel-beyond-developers\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eepisode\u003c/a\u003e \u0026amp; \u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/73ap\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eafter pulse \u003c/a\u003e- Jennifer Ritzinger \u0026amp; Matty Stratton\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003ePast EOY Wrap-ups\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/19-2017review\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e2017\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/31-2018wrapup\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e2018\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/43-2019-closing-thoughts\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e2019\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/54-end-of-year\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e2020\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/64-2021-wrap-up\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e2021\u003c/a\u003e \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@dengxiangs?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChoong Deng Xiang\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@dengxiangs?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"We’re somehow already at the end of 2022, which means it’s time for another end-of-year wrap-up from your Community Pulse hosts! Thanks so much to all of you who have listened (and participated!) as we’ve explored topics from content to speaking, Developer Experience, DevRel strategy, and more. Join Mary, Jason, PJ, and Wesley as we talk about some of the trends we noticed during 2022 and what we think might happen in 2023.","date_published":"2022-12-14T08:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/1d275baa-be7b-473b-8de6-9a3d39cd29e9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":34579870,"duration_in_seconds":2133}]},{"id":"5b3c7833-04d6-45f4-806e-97f15054bc16","title":"After Pulse: DevRel Beyond Developers","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/73ap","content_text":"Jason, Mary, PJ and Wesley further the discussion on devrel communities and how we can serve our changing scope of user.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eJason, Mary, PJ and Wesley further the discussion on devrel communities and how we can serve our changing scope of user.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason, Mary, PJ and Wesley further the discussion on devrel communities and how we can serve our changing scope of user.","date_published":"2022-11-28T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/5b3c7833-04d6-45f4-806e-97f15054bc16.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":14193823,"duration_in_seconds":887}]},{"id":"3eb5f5bc-6b1f-4ee3-96fa-4a5fdd6dbcfc","title":"DevRel Beyond Developers (Ep 73)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/73-devrel-beyond-developers","content_text":"The word “developer” has always been evolving, from assembly to systems, operations, and beyond. The term “Developer Relations” has traditionally meant we’re engaging with people who consider themselves full-time professional developers. However, over the past few years, the term “developer” has expanded to encompass more than this professional developer persona. These days, some DevRel teams advocate for, evangelize to, and create communities for SREs, Enterprise Architects, students, or decision-makers in early-stage startups, in addition to low-code or citizen developers.\n\nWhile these people may fall outside of the traditional developer persona, many DevRel teams are looking to support these people who are using our technology for one-off solutions to their problems. We’re interested in learning more about whether this changes the scope of DevRel, and if so, how.\n\nCheckouts\n\nJennifer Ritzinger\n\n\nHow to Make a Monster: Hollywood Special Effects Makeup With Morgan Muta - Atlas Obscura Experiences\n\n\nMatty Stratton\n\n\nKeyoxide\nThe Storyteller - Audiobook by Dave Grohl\nFall Guys - silly game I play with my kids\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nLumaFusion\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nClearword - actions items and the important part of meetings, not just transcription\nSpy X Family\nDon’t get COVID\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nYouTube Shorts - on Microsoft Learn Shows \u0026amp; Events\nCrossClip\nArtistWorks\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nPLG + CLG\n\n\nArtwork photo by Tim Mossholder on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Jennifer Ritzinger and Matty Stratton.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eThe word “developer” has always been evolving, from assembly to systems, operations, and beyond. The term “Developer Relations” has traditionally meant we’re engaging with people who consider themselves full-time professional developers. However, over the past few years, the term “developer” has expanded to encompass more than this professional developer persona. These days, some DevRel teams advocate for, evangelize to, and create communities for SREs, Enterprise Architects, students, or decision-makers in early-stage startups, in addition to low-code or citizen developers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWhile these people may fall outside of the traditional developer persona, many DevRel teams are looking to support these people who are using our technology for one-off solutions to their problems. We’re interested in learning more about whether this changes the scope of DevRel, and if so, how.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJennifer Ritzinger\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.atlasobscura.com/experiences/special-effects-makeup-course\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHow to Make a Monster: Hollywood Special Effects Makeup With Morgan Muta - Atlas Obscura Experiences\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMatty Stratton\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://keyoxide.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eKeyoxide\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Storyteller-Audiobook/0063076128\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Storyteller\u003c/a\u003e - Audiobook by Dave Grohl\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.fallguys.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFall Guys\u003c/a\u003e - silly game I play with my kids\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://luma-touch.com/lumafusion-on-android/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLumaFusion\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://clearword.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eClearword\u003c/a\u003e - actions items and the important part of meetings, not just transcription\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.crunchyroll.com/series/G4PH0WXVJ/spy-x-family?from=spyxfamily\u0026utm_source=ip_cr\u0026utm_medium=content_crunchyroll\u0026utm_campaign=titlemarketing_all_spyxfamily\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpy X Family\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDon’t get COVID\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/c/MicrosoftDeveloper/shorts\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eYouTube Shorts\u003c/a\u003e - on Microsoft Learn Shows \u0026amp; Events\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://crossclip.com\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCrossClip\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.artistworks.com\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eArtistWorks\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.commonroom.io/blog/use-product-led-and-community-led-growth-together-for-better-business-outcomes/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePLG + CLG\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@timmossholder?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTim Mossholder\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@timmossholder?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Jennifer Ritzinger and Matty Stratton.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"These days, some DevRel teams advocate for, evangelize to, and create communities for SREs, Enterprise Architects, students, or decision-makers in early-stage startups, in addition to low-code or citizen developers.\r\n\r\nWhile these people may fall outside of the traditional developer persona, many DevRel teams are looking to support these people who are using our technology for one-off solutions to their problems. We’re interested in learning more about whether this changes the scope of DevRel, and if so, how.","date_published":"2022-11-16T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/3eb5f5bc-6b1f-4ee3-96fa-4a5fdd6dbcfc.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":45425261,"duration_in_seconds":2811}]},{"id":"8977f734-4992-4d42-926c-7f5ca4d760ee","title":"After Pulse: Developer Experience","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/72ap","content_text":"Mary, Wesley, and PJ spend time considering their conversation with Amara and Kurt and the implications for a great developer experience.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eMary, Wesley, and PJ spend time considering their conversation with Amara and Kurt and the implications for a great developer experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary, Wes and PJ spend time considering their conversation with Amara and Kurt and the implications for a great developer experience.","date_published":"2022-11-02T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/8977f734-4992-4d42-926c-7f5ca4d760ee.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":13094591,"duration_in_seconds":818}]},{"id":"86fb2329-0d14-4c14-a68c-1675b3567837","title":"Where do you get started with Developer Experience? (Ep  72)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/72-developer-experience","content_text":"Developer Experience (DX) has been a buzzword for the past few years and it’s only growing in popularity. But what is it exactly, and how is it different from Developer Relations or Developer Advocacy? Also, when we say “Developer Experience” is everyone actually referring to the same topic? Or are there multiple approaches? \n\nCheckouts\n\nAmara Graham\n\n\nHighlights/admonitions come to GitHub\nHolo Taco nail polish - not new but wonderful\n\n\nKurt Kemple\n\n\nStar Citizen, a space game I’ve been playing\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nSetting up for success in your next role - where to start\nLego Masters\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nSpanish Love Songs - Brave Faces\nLOTR: Rings of Power\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nThe 1-3-5 rule\nDerry Girls (Netflix show)\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Amara Graham and Kurt Kemple.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eDeveloper Experience (DX) has been a buzzword for the past few years and it’s only growing in popularity. But what is it exactly, and how is it different from Developer Relations or Developer Advocacy? Also, when we say “Developer Experience” is everyone actually referring to the same topic? Or are there multiple approaches? \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAmara Graham\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://github.com/community/community/discussions/16925\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHighlights/admonitions come to GitHub\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.holotaco.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHolo Taco nail polish\u003c/a\u003e - not new but wonderful\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eKurt Kemple\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eStar Citizen\u003c/a\u003e, a space game I’ve been playing\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.devrelx.com/post/setting-up-for-success-in-your-next-role-where-to-start\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSetting up for success in your next role - where to start\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.lego.com/en-us/page/lego-masters\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLego Masters\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://spanishlovesongs.com/products/sls0bfetdc-lp\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpanish Love Songs - Brave Faces\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QH98YG1?ref=dvm_us_dl_sl_go_ROPLAU22_mkw_sX3mket3F-dc\u0026mrntrk=pcrid_618715577193_slid__pgrid_144239414807_pgeo_9027222_x__ptid_kwd-295270512187\u0026gclid=CjwKCAjw79iaBhAJEiwAPYwoCL2PP1kE-ndklqDhYkkOkz5DaBHTeYp2bBbSJPKZS2Be6q7m7Wk7TRoCeHwQAvD_BwE\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLOTR: Rings of Power\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.timedoctor.com/blog/1-3-5-rule/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe 1-3-5 rule\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derry_Girls\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDerry Girls\u003c/a\u003e (Netflix show)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Amara Graham and Kurt Kemple.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Developer Experience (DX) has been a buzzword for the past few years and it’s only growing in popularity. But what is it exactly, and how is it different from Developer Relations or Developer Advocacy? Also, when we say “Developer Experience” is everyone actually referring to the same topic? Or are there multiple approaches? ","date_published":"2022-10-26T08:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/86fb2329-0d14-4c14-a68c-1675b3567837.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":41067763,"duration_in_seconds":2566}]},{"id":"081b7582-2237-40a5-9e71-0d1034cc21d7","title":"After Pulse: DevRel Survey 2022","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/71ap","content_text":"Our hosts continue to reflect on the results of this year's DevRel survey and provide further insights into the data and the industry.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eOur hosts continue to reflect on the results of this year\u0026#39;s DevRel survey and provide further insights into the data and the industry.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Our hosts continue to reflect on the results of this year's DevRel survey and provide further insights into the data and the industry.","date_published":"2022-10-07T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/081b7582-2237-40a5-9e71-0d1034cc21d7.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":15060671,"duration_in_seconds":941}]},{"id":"414fb118-8040-405b-b9de-aa3b797acd8a","title":"DevRel Survey 2022 (Ep 71)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/71-devrel-survey-2022","content_text":"By the varied nature of everything that falls under the umbrella of Developer Relations, it can be difficult to get down to the trends and movements of everything we do. Add to that the bespoke nature of many DevRel programs, and we really need to work to discover what’s happening in the world we live and work in. Fortunately, a survey was done, and in this episode we will discover some of the results and find out a bit of the why we do what we do when we say we do DevRel.\n\nCheckouts\n\nCaroline Lewko\n\n\nFive Little Indians by Michelle Good\n2022 Survey and previous survey (available at www.Stateofdeveloperrelations.com)\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nNo Code Micro Workshop\nFour Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nSXSW\nNeurodiversity in DevRel\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\n23rd Anniversary of the American Football self-titled LP - great emo/proto-mathrock album\nWeapons of Math Destruction by Cathy O’Neil\nKings Highwaymen\n\n\nArtwork photo by Алекс Арцибашев on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Caroline Lewko.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eBy the varied nature of everything that falls under the umbrella of Developer Relations, it can be difficult to get down to the trends and movements of everything we do. Add to that the bespoke nature of many DevRel programs, and we really need to work to discover what’s happening in the world we live and work in. Fortunately, a survey was done, and in this episode we will discover some of the results and find out a bit of the why we do what we do when we say we do DevRel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eCaroline Lewko\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/52214103\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFive Little Indians\u003c/a\u003e by Michelle Good\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e2022 Survey and previous survey (available at \u003ca href=\"http://www.Stateofdeveloperrelations.com\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ewww.Stateofdeveloperrelations.com\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://jhand.co/nocode\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNo Code Micro Workshop\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Four-Thousand-Weeks-Management-Mortals/dp/B08XZY5ZF7/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2DQK78HTQFNLF\u0026keywords=4%2C000+weeks\u0026qid=1663342995\u0026sprefix=4%2C000+weeks%2Caps%2C116\u0026sr=8-1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFour Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals\u003c/a\u003e by Oliver Burkeman\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.sxsw.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSXSW\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.polywork.com/clubs/neurodiversity-in-devrel\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNeurodiversity in DevRel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e23rd Anniversary of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000X5KLRO?_encoding=UTF8\u0026qid=\u0026sr=\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAmerican Football self-titled LP\u003c/a\u003e - great emo/proto-mathrock album\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-Inequality/dp/0553418815\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWeapons of Math Destruction\u003c/a\u003e by Cathy O’Neil\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/kingshwymenwny/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eKings Highwaymen\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eArtwork photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@lxrcbsv?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eАлекс Арцибашев\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@lxrcbsv?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Caroline Lewko.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"By the varied nature of everything that falls under the umbrella of Developer Relations, it can be difficult to get down to the trends and movements of everything we do. Add to that the bespoke nature of many DevRel programs, and we really need to work to discover what’s happening in the world we live and work in. Fortunately, a survey was done, and in this episode we will discover some of the results and find out a bit of the why we do what we do when we say we do DevRel.","date_published":"2022-09-30T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/414fb118-8040-405b-b9de-aa3b797acd8a.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":35456846,"duration_in_seconds":2188}]},{"id":"fe7dd2fa-6560-413b-8119-ebbeab515721","title":"After Pulse: Rediscovering In-Person Conferences","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/70ap","content_text":"Our hosts reflect on their conversation in Episode 70 with Kerri and Jeff and cover key takeaways on in-person conferences and their role in DevRel. \n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eOur hosts reflect on their conversation in Episode 70 with Kerri and Jeff and cover key takeaways on in-person conferences and their role in DevRel. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Our hosts reflect on their conversation in Episode 70 with Kerri and Jeff and cover key takeaways on in-person conferences and their role in DevRel. ","date_published":"2022-08-24T12:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/fe7dd2fa-6560-413b-8119-ebbeab515721.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":15838075,"duration_in_seconds":989}]},{"id":"4bdf374d-b81d-4fa7-9214-d36fd344ca8f","title":"Rediscovering In-Person Conferences (Ep 70)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/70-rediscovering-in-person-conferences","content_text":"Before the pandemic, we, as DevRel practitioners, focused most of our speaking efforts on in-person events. Now we have the option of speaking at in-person, virtual, and hybrid conferences. With this experience now in our rearview, let’s look ahead to rediscovering what the advantages are and what we get out of in-person events knowing what the other side looks like.\n\nCheckouts\n\nKerri Miller\n\n\nManaging so Everyone Can Contribute\nTiny Tools conf\n\n\nJeff Blankenburg\n\n\nCakeTime - build your first Alexa app!\nStir Trek - Movie \u0026amp; a conference!\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\n9th Developer Relations Survey (2022)\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nCallofConduct.com is now in beta - for all your Code of Conduct reporting needs\nFor All Mankind series\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\n[Banner photo by Headway on UnsplashSpecial Guests: Jeff Blankenburg and Kerri Miller.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eBefore the pandemic, we, as DevRel practitioners, focused most of our speaking efforts on in-person events. Now we have the option of speaking at in-person, virtual, and hybrid conferences. With this experience now in our rearview, let’s look ahead to rediscovering what the advantages are and what we get out of in-person events knowing what the other side looks like.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eKerri Miller\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/mecc/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eManaging so Everyone Can Contribute\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://aescripts.com/tiny-tools/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTiny Tools conf\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJeff Blankenburg\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://alexa.design/caketime\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCakeTime\u003c/a\u003e - build your first Alexa app!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://stirtrek.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eStir Trek\u003c/a\u003e - Movie \u0026amp; a conference!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DevRelSurvey9D\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e9th Developer Relations Survey (2022)\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.callofconduct.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCallofConduct.com\u003c/a\u003e is now in beta - for all your Code of Conduct reporting needs\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://tv.apple.com/us/show/for-all-mankind/umc.cmc.6wsi780sz5tdbqcf11k76mkp7\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFor All Mankind\u003c/a\u003e series\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003cbr\u003e\n[Banner photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@headwayio?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHeadway\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@headwayio?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Jeff Blankenburg and Kerri Miller.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Before the pandemic, we, as DevRel practitioners, focused most of our speaking efforts on in-person events. Now we have the option of speaking at in-person, virtual, and hybrid conferences. With this experience now in our rearview, let’s look ahead to rediscovering what the advantages are and what we get out of in-person events knowing what the other side looks like.","date_published":"2022-08-10T12:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/4bdf374d-b81d-4fa7-9214-d36fd344ca8f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":40538988,"duration_in_seconds":2513}]},{"id":"0d59292d-58bd-4e61-80c8-8d45e781aec9","title":"So Long, SJ, and Thanks for All the Quips (Ep 69)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/69-so-long-sj","content_text":"In this episode, we say goodbye to our dear friend SJ Morris as co-host of the Community Pulse. Like many of us, sometimes the business of life and work makes it difficult to make time for the things we enjoy or even just time to take care of ourselves. We wanted to take the opportunity to say goodbye to SJ and also to talk about what folks can do to honestly and boldly confront their own burnout in DevRel.\n\nCheckouts\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nDiscogs - to inventory SJ’s vinyl record collection.\nStolen Focus: Why You Can’t Pay Attention – and How to Think Deeply Again by Johann Hari\nThink Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know by Adam Grant\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nFi GPS dog collar. Use this referral code to get a free “band” (collar) of your choice.\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nSJ re-discovers vinyl - aka my checkout is just the concept of vinyl records played on turntables \n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nKendrick Lamar’s new album - Mr Morale \u0026amp; The Big Steppers\nPolyvinyl Records Garage Sale for Pride Month\nThe Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood\n\n\nWesley Faulkner:\n\n\nWhat neurodiversity means for DevRel\nThe Long Game: How to be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World by Dorie Clark\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIn this episode, we say goodbye to our dear friend SJ Morris as co-host of the Community Pulse. Like many of us, sometimes the business of life and work makes it difficult to make time for the things we enjoy or even just time to take care of ourselves. We wanted to take the opportunity to say goodbye to SJ and also to talk about what folks can do to honestly and boldly confront their own burnout in DevRel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.discogs.com\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDiscogs\u003c/a\u003e - to inventory SJ’s vinyl record collection.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0593138511/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8\u0026psc=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eStolen Focus: Why You Can’t Pay Attention – and How to Think Deeply Again\u003c/a\u003e by Johann Hari\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1984878107/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8\u0026psc=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThink Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know\u003c/a\u003e by Adam Grant\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eFi GPS dog collar. Use \u003ca href=\"https://shop.tryfi.com/r/GG2GJ9/?utm_source=referrals\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ethis referral code\u003c/a\u003e to get a free “band” (collar) of your choice.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eSJ re-discovers vinyl - aka my checkout is just the concept of vinyl records played on turntables \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eKendrick Lamar’s new album - Mr Morale \u0026amp; The Big Steppers\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.polyvinylrecords.com/store/garage_sale_lps\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePolyvinyl Records Garage Sale\u003c/a\u003e for Pride Month\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Handmaids-Tale-Margaret-Atwood/dp/038549081X/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3WOJVBX1YVSB\u0026keywords=the+handmaids+tale\u0026qid=1654602516\u0026sprefix=the+handmaids+tale%2Caps%2C258\u0026sr=8-4\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Handmaid’s Tale\u003c/a\u003e by Margaret Atwood\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner:\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/wesley83/status/1529482672711647243\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWhat neurodiversity means for DevRel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Long-Game-Long-Term-Thinker-Short-Term/dp/164782057X\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Long Game: How to be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World\u003c/a\u003e by Dorie Clark\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In this episode, we say goodbye to our dear friend SJ Morris as co-host of the Community Pulse. Like many of us, sometimes the business of life and work makes it difficult to make time for the things we enjoy or even just time to take care of ourselves. We wanted to take the opportunity to say goodbye to SJ and also to talk about what folks can do to honestly and boldly confront their own burnout in DevRel.","date_published":"2022-06-10T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/0d59292d-58bd-4e61-80c8-8d45e781aec9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":107014986,"duration_in_seconds":2664}]},{"id":"67b47347-e6fb-498a-96f0-5e14b1d4784f","title":"After Pulse: Moving from Execution to Strategy","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/68ap","content_text":"Our hosts reflect on their conversation in Episode 68 with Mo and Ashley and cover key takeaways on when to make moves in leadership positions in DevRel.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eOur hosts reflect on their conversation in Episode 68 with Mo and Ashley and cover key takeaways on when to make moves in leadership positions in DevRel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Our hosts reflect on their conversation in Episode 68 with Mo and Ashley and cover key takeaways on when to make moves in leadership positions in DevRel.","date_published":"2022-05-04T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/67b47347-e6fb-498a-96f0-5e14b1d4784f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":41685076,"duration_in_seconds":1042}]},{"id":"748145d6-9a47-474d-995c-0fb0e126dbc9","title":"Moving from Execution to Strategy (Ep 68)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/68-moving-from-execution-to-strategy","content_text":"In the beginning, folks in DevRel had few paths outside of being an Individual Contributor. As our field has evolved, more opportunities have arisen for more strategic roles. DevRel leadership is one of the most sought after roles for many organizations in recent months. What should we look for when considering making the move to strategist versus the out front IC? What can we learn from those who have made that journey?\n\nCheckouts\n\nMo McElaney\n\n\nHeavy in planning mode for my garden this summer! I live in zone 5a so I’m still a month away from being outside the frost zone, but my tulips are popping up, I’m starting my veggie seeds, and starting to prep my garden beds.\n\n\nAshley Willis\n\n\nLara Hogan resources\nPlucky cards to use during 1:1s\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nDevOps on Azure \nAzure DevOps Demo Generator\nAzure Cosmos DB Conf\nTiny Tina's Wonderlands: Official Site\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nEnergy Management for Newer Managers\nHomebird - Awesome window bird feeder and the first visitor has arrived!\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nDevRelate blog - metrics for success\nOSMH not OSMI\nGo Raptors!\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nPodcast: Neurodiversity \u0026amp; Intersectionality: A Disclosure Challenge\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Ashley Willis and Mo McElaney.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIn the beginning, folks in DevRel had few paths outside of being an Individual Contributor. As our field has evolved, more opportunities have arisen for more strategic roles. DevRel leadership is one of the most sought after roles for many organizations in recent months. What should we look for when considering making the move to strategist versus the out front IC? What can we learn from those who have made that journey?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMo McElaney\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eHeavy in planning mode for my garden this summer! I live in zone 5a so I’m still a month away from being outside the frost zone, but my tulips are popping up, I’m starting my veggie seeds, and starting to prep my garden beds.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAshley Willis\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://larahogan.me/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLara Hogan resources\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://shop.beplucky.com/products/the-plucky-1-1-starter-pack\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePlucky cards\u003c/a\u003e to use during 1:1s\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/c/AzureDevOps\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevOps on Azure\u003c/a\u003e \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://jhand.dev/ProjectGenerator\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAzure DevOps Demo Generator\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.gotcosmos.com/conf\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAzure Cosmos DB Conf\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://playwonderlands.2k.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTiny Tina\u0026#39;s Wonderlands: Official Site\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://cate.blog/2022/03/21/energy-management-for-newer-managers/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eEnergy Management for Newer Managers\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/stores/WelcometoHomebird/page/7F78757D-2D1E-4BF6-BC15-7456E5943009?ref_=ast_bln\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHomebird\u003c/a\u003e - Awesome window bird feeder and \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/mary_grace/status/1514778133223804934\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ethe first visitor has arrived\u003c/a\u003e!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRelate blog - \u003ca href=\"https://devrelate.io/post/20-measuring-up-metrics-in-developer-relations\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003emetrics for success\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://OSMHhelp.org\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOSMH not OSMI\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eGo Raptors!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.peatworks.org/podcast-neurodiversity-intersectionality-a-disclosure-challenge/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePodcast: Neurodiversity \u0026amp; Intersectionality: A Disclosure Challenge\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Ashley Willis and Mo McElaney.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In the beginning, folks in DevRel had few paths outside of being an Individual Contributor. As our field has evolved, more opportunities have arisen for more strategic roles. DevRel leadership is one of the most sought after roles for many organizations in recent months. What should we look for when considering making the move to strategist versus the out front IC? What can we learn from those who have made that journey?","date_published":"2022-04-19T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/748145d6-9a47-474d-995c-0fb0e126dbc9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":42503607,"duration_in_seconds":2628}]},{"id":"e3f0727f-5ae8-43da-9a21-0045f2f6508d","title":"After Pulse: Grab the Mic!","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/67ap","content_text":"Jason and PJ recap what they learned from our guests about public speaking - from conception and development all the way to delivery.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eJason and PJ recap what they learned from our guests about public speaking - from conception and development all the way to delivery.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason and PJ recap what they learned from our guests about public speaking - from conception and development all the way to delivery.","date_published":"2022-03-24T13:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/e3f0727f-5ae8-43da-9a21-0045f2f6508d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":40407165,"duration_in_seconds":1010}]},{"id":"29c4f82e-1d08-461c-b317-6dd1bbc06723","title":"Grab the Mic! Tips to get started in DevRel speaking (Ep 67)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/67-grab-the-mic","content_text":"A big part of traditional DevRel has always been speaking in front of an audience. Whether at a virtual meetup or live at a large conference, it can be complicated to navigate coming up with an idea, building a talk, getting it accepted somewhere, and actually delivering the thing. We wanted to take a look at some of the tips, tricks, and things you need to know to be successful in finding your way to becoming a great DevRel speaker!\n\nCheckouts\nKat Cosgrove\n\n\nNONS SL660\n\n\nVicky Brasseur\n\n\nHarvard Census II\n#YarnIsForEveryone\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nDevOpsDays Rockies \nAzure Cosmos DB conf\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nAmerican Beauty/Innerlove split 7”\nWikipedia Devrel page\n\n\nPhoto by Kane Reinholdtsen on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Kat Cosgrove and VM (Vicky) Brasseur.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eA big part of traditional DevRel has always been speaking in front of an audience. Whether at a virtual meetup or live at a large conference, it can be complicated to navigate coming up with an idea, building a talk, getting it accepted somewhere, and actually delivering the thing. We wanted to take a look at some of the tips, tricks, and things you need to know to be successful in finding your way to becoming a great DevRel speaker!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nKat Cosgrove\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nonscamera/sl660-interchangeable-lens-slr-analogue-instant-camera\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNONS SL660\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eVicky Brasseur\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://derechodelared.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/LFResearch_Harvard_Census_II.pdf\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHarvard Census II\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/YarnIsForEveryone\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e#YarnIsForEveryone\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://devopsdays.org/events/2022-denver/welcome/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevOpsDays Rockies\u003c/a\u003e \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.gotcosmos.com/conf\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAzure Cosmos DB conf\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.stereogum.com/2151217/american-beauty-stage-fright-innerlove-murder/music/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAmerican Beauty/Innerlove split 7”\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developer_relations\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWikipedia Devrel page\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@kanereinholdtsen\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eKane Reinholdtsen\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@kanereinholdtsen\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Kat Cosgrove and VM (Vicky) Brasseur.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"A big part of traditional DevRel has always been speaking in front of an audience. Whether at a virtual meetup or live at a large conference, it can be complicated to navigate coming up with an idea, building a talk, getting it accepted somewhere, and actually delivering the thing. We wanted to take a look at some of the tips, tricks, and things you need to know to be successful in finding your way to becoming a great DevRel speaker!","date_published":"2022-03-17T07:45:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/29c4f82e-1d08-461c-b317-6dd1bbc06723.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":46555707,"duration_in_seconds":2881}]},{"id":"bb90336e-219a-4583-b0ca-6733bd9f478f","title":"After Pulse: Your Content, Their Brand","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/66ap","content_text":"PJ, Jason, Wesley, and SJ sit down to discuss what they learned from our guests on content creation and ownership, as well as setting expectations for this with the brands we work with.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003ePJ, Jason, Wesley, and SJ sit down to discuss what they learned from our guests on content creation and ownership, as well as setting expectations for this with the brands we work with.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"PJ, Wesley, and SJ sit down to discuss what they learned from our guests on content creation and ownership, as well as setting expectations for this with the brands we work with.","date_published":"2022-03-03T05:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/bb90336e-219a-4583-b0ca-6733bd9f478f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":47446643,"duration_in_seconds":1186}]},{"id":"e1078779-c57f-433d-b889-541d9ed68ebe","title":"Your Content, Their Brand (Ep 66)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/66-your-content-their-brand","content_text":"When we create content, the ideas and concepts typically come from ourselves or our community members. But when we work for a larger organization, things get complicated. Some of us create content as a part of our day-to-day role; some of us create content outside of work hours. Now that we as DevRel professionals produce even more online content to connect with our community, there’s some ambiguity about the ownership of this content.\n\nTo take a look at some of these questions, we’ve invited a couple of guests familiar with this space: Amara Graham, Head of Developer Experience at Camunda and Henry Teegarden, Esquire, from Teegarden Law.\n\nFULL DISCLOSURE: This podcast is not meant to be taken as legal advice. We are sharing our opinions and thoughts. If you have specific questions about your content, we recommend contacting a legal professional.\n\nCheckouts\nAmara Graham\n\n\nStumbled on a TikTok of a new nurse grad talking about her experience as a deaf nurse \n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nYou’re Doing It Wrong — Recruiting a DevRel\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nWordle! Just kidding\nHubSpot Culture Code\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nCowboy Bebop live action (Netflix)\n\n\nCover art photo by Patrik Michalicka on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Amara Graham and Henry Teegarden.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWhen we create content, the ideas and concepts typically come from ourselves or our community members. But when we work for a larger organization, things get complicated. Some of us create content as a part of our day-to-day role; some of us create content outside of work hours. Now that we as DevRel professionals produce even more online content to connect with our community, there’s some ambiguity about the ownership of this content.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eTo take a look at some of these questions, we’ve invited a couple of guests familiar with this space: Amara Graham, Head of Developer Experience at Camunda and Henry Teegarden, Esquire, from Teegarden Law.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eFULL DISCLOSURE: This podcast is not meant to be taken as legal advice. We are sharing our opinions and thoughts. If you have specific questions about your content, we recommend contacting a legal professional.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nAmara Graham\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eStumbled on a \u003ca href=\"https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdkbVCvf/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTikTok of a new nurse grad\u003c/a\u003e talking about her experience as a deaf nurse \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://thenewstack.io/youre-doing-it-wrong-recruiting-a-devrel/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eYou’re Doing It Wrong — Recruiting a DevRel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWordle! Just kidding\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://blog.hubspot.com/blog/tabid/6307/bid/34234/the-hubspot-culture-code-creating-a-company-we-love.aspx\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHubSpot Culture Code\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCowboy Bebop live action (Netflix)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eCover art photo by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@patrikmichalicka\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePatrik Michalicka\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@patrikmichalicka\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Amara Graham and Henry Teegarden.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"When we create content, the ideas and concepts typically come from ourselves or our community members. But when we work for a larger organization, things get complicated. Some of us create content as a part of our day-to-day role; some of us create content outside of work hours. Now that we as DevRel professionals produce even more online content to connect with our community, there’s some ambiguity about the ownership of this content.","date_published":"2022-02-24T11:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/e1078779-c57f-433d-b889-541d9ed68ebe.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":33731813,"duration_in_seconds":2108}]},{"id":"da898b14-ae18-41c0-b143-31e558c4d055","title":"DevRel: What's Your Story? - Community Pulse Live! (Ep 65)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/65-devrel-whats-your-story","content_text":"The journey to DevRel is a winding one. We all have our own stories about how we wound up where we are — from intentional plans to happy accidents, as hosts of this podcast we’ve heard them all. One thing’s for sure, y’all’s stories are interesting, so we wanted to get together and talk about our journeys — what we have in common, funny anecdotes along the way, and what we can do to uplift the next generation of folks wanting to get started on this wild ride.\n\nRelated Episodes/Resources\n\n\nYouTube recording of today's episode\nDeveloper Relations Career Ladders\nDevRel Resources\nBreaking into DevRel (Ep 21)\n\n\nFill out this form to let us know what you want us to cover in 2022!\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eThe journey to DevRel is a winding one. We all have our own stories about how we wound up where we are — from intentional plans to happy accidents, as hosts of this podcast we’ve heard them all. One thing’s for sure, y’all’s stories are interesting, so we wanted to get together and talk about our journeys — what we have in common, funny anecdotes along the way, and what we can do to uplift the next generation of folks wanting to get started on this wild ride.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eRelated Episodes/Resources\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5ag5HU2Ajs\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eYouTube recording of today\u0026#39;s episode\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.devrel-ladders.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDeveloper Relations Career Ladders\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://devrelresourc.es/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel Resources\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/21-breaking-into-devrel\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBreaking into DevRel (Ep 21)\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eFill out \u003ca href=\"https://forms.gle/fxdhPAcJuvUxgd8F9\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ethis form\u003c/a\u003e to let us know what you want us to cover in 2022!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"The journey to DevRel is a winding one. We all have our own stories about how we wound up where we are — from intentional plans to happy accidents, as hosts of this podcast we’ve heard them all. One thing’s for sure, y’all’s stories are interesting, so we wanted to get together and talk about our journeys — what we have in common, funny anecdotes along the way, and what we can do to uplift the next generation of folks wanting to get started on this wild ride.","date_published":"2022-01-21T05:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/da898b14-ae18-41c0-b143-31e558c4d055.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":46379188,"duration_in_seconds":2898}]},{"id":"16a1ed33-2cd5-4fe3-a097-33c1477229f4","title":"End of Year Wrap-up - 2021 (Ep 64)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/64-2021-wrap-up","content_text":"2021 has been a year of ups and downs in the world of DevRel and Community work. From the shifting quicksand of events returning in person, then virtual once again, to the massive opening of job reqs for positions under the DevRel umbrella, it’s been a wild ride. We’ve also tried new things, both on the podcast and personally, and in this episode we will cover our perspectives on the year that was 2021.\n\nLinks:\n\n\nSonder\nTop Episodes:\n\n\nOnline Community Platforms (Jono Bacon, Noele Flowers) - Episode 58\nDevRel Content Channels (Cassidy Williams, Joe Karlsson) - Episode 57\n DevRel Around the World - Episode 59\n\n\n\nSend in your feedback! Hit us up on Twitter or shoot us an [email](info@communitypulse.io).\n\nSpecial shout-out to Sarah Allen for all of the hard work getting the new website up and running.\n\nPhoto by Moritz Knöringer on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e2021 has been a year of ups and downs in the world of DevRel and Community work. From the shifting quicksand of events returning in person, then virtual once again, to the massive opening of job reqs for positions under the DevRel umbrella, it’s been a wild ride. We’ve also tried new things, both on the podcast and personally, and in this episode we will cover our perspectives on the year that was 2021.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eLinks:\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://seths.blog/2017/10/the-sonder-breakthrough/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSonder\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eTop Episodes:\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://www.communitypulse.io/58-online-community-platforms\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOnline Community Platforms\u003c/a\u003e (Jono Bacon, Noele Flowers) - Episode 58\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://www.communitypulse.io/57-devrel-content-channels\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel Content Channels\u003c/a\u003e (Cassidy Williams, Joe Karlsson) - Episode 57\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"http://www.communitypulse.io/59-devrel-around-the-world\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel Around the World\u003c/a\u003e - Episode 59\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSend in your feedback! Hit us up on \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/community_pulse\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTwitter\u003c/a\u003e or shoot us an [email](\u003ca href=\"mailto:info@communitypulse.io\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003einfo@communitypulse.io\u003c/a\u003e).\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSpecial shout-out to Sarah Allen for all of the hard work getting the new website up and running.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@mokngr?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMoritz Knöringer\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@mokngr?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"All five hosts meet and discuss the year in review. ","date_published":"2021-12-13T15:15:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/16a1ed33-2cd5-4fe3-a097-33c1477229f4.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":37292685,"duration_in_seconds":2473}]},{"id":"be90bc8d-32c7-4487-92f1-85ad2ace500b","title":"DevRel Resources (Ep 63)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/63-devrel-resources","content_text":"If there’s one thing that’s true across developer relations professionals, it’s that we live to educate and support. That extends to our fellow devrels - and in recent years, a flurry of developer relations related supporting materials have surfaced; from blogs to books, tweets to (ahem) podcasts, and more. What’s the best way to dig through them all to get the support and guidance you need? Today’s guests will cover that from several angles - from someone new to the devrel world, to someone looking to get more folks connected to devrel, and us hosts that are somewhere in between. \n\nCheckouts\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nPolywork\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nNoodle the Pug - Bones/No Bones\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nSapiens: A brief history of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari \n\n\nAlbrey Brown\n\n\nDevRel Collective Slack\nDevRel Salary Report\n\n\nJessica Rose\n\n\nI’ve gotten really into the idea of doing less; there are a ton of disparate resources so I’m not quite sure where to point folks, but it feels like right now there are a lot of people around the world wanting to work less, buy less, and chill more which I find so reassuring.\n\n\nPhoto by Austin Distel on Unsplash\n\nLinks/Resources\n\n\nThe Business Value of Developer Relations\nDeveloper Relations: How to Build and Grow a Successful Developer Program\nDocs for Developers: An Engineer’s Field Guide to Technical Writing\ndevrelresourc.es \n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Albrey Brown and Jessica Rose.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIf there’s one thing that’s true across developer relations professionals, it’s that we live to educate and support. That extends to our fellow devrels - and in recent years, a flurry of developer relations related supporting materials have surfaced; from blogs to books, tweets to (ahem) podcasts, and more. What’s the best way to dig through them all to get the support and guidance you need? Today’s guests will cover that from several angles - from someone new to the devrel world, to someone looking to get more folks connected to devrel, and us hosts that are somewhere in between. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.polywork.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePolywork\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@jongraz?lang=en\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNoodle the Pug\u003c/a\u003e - Bones/No Bones\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ICN066A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8\u0026psc=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSapiens: A brief history of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari\u003c/a\u003e \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAlbrey Brown\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRel Collective Slack\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://dev.to/bffjossy/2021-devrel-salary-survey-results-table-of-contents-43fe\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel Salary Report\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJessica Rose\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eI’ve gotten really into the idea of doing less; there are a ton of disparate resources so I’m not quite sure where to point folks, but it feels like right now there are a lot of people around the world wanting to work less, buy less, and chill more which I find so reassuring.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@austindistel?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAustin Distel\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@austindistel?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks/Resources\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://smile.amazon.com/Business-Value-Developer-Relations-Communities/dp/1484237471/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Business Value of Developer Relations\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://smile.amazon.com/Developer-Relations-Build-Successful-Program/dp/1484271637/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1\u0026keywords=developer+relations\u0026qid=1634321009\u0026sr=8-3\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDeveloper Relations: How to Build and Grow a Successful Developer Program\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/1484272161/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8\u0026psc=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDocs for Developers: An Engineer’s Field Guide to Technical Writing\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://devrelresourc.es/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003edevrelresourc.es\u003c/a\u003e \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Albrey Brown and Jessica Rose.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"If there’s one thing that’s true across developer relations professionals, it’s that we live to educate and support. That extends to our fellow devrels - and in recent years, a flurry of developer relations related supporting materials have surfaced; from blogs to books, tweets to (ahem) podcasts, and more. What’s the best way to dig through them all to get the support and guidance you need? Today’s guests will cover that from several angles - from someone new to the devrel world, to someone looking to get more folks connected to devrel, and us hosts that are somewhere in between. ","date_published":"2021-11-18T16:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/be90bc8d-32c7-4487-92f1-85ad2ace500b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":36451407,"duration_in_seconds":2250}]},{"id":"847073ac-837a-4211-b1ab-e3d9d84086e2","title":"DevRel Salary Survey Results (Ep 62)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/62-devrel-salary-survey","content_text":"Figuring out what the standard pay is for a DevRel professional can be difficult, especially when considering expectations, experience, and different niche industries within tech. What’s the average, what makes sense for the role, what’s fair - these are all questions that come to mind when considering compensation for what we do. Luckily, today’s guests have gathered some information and crunched the numbers to help you make a more informed approach to what a fair salary is for your role.\n\nDevRel Collective 2021 Salary Survey Results\n\nCheckouts\nWesley\n\n\nHow do we get sponsors to support our tech event? - DEV Community\n\n\nMary\n\n\nDevRelResourc.es is live!\n\n\nWesley\n\n\nMitchell’s New Role at HashiCorp\n\n\nSJ\n\n\nMailchimp’s Engineering Blog is now LIVE!\n\n\nGreg\n\n\nMatrix.org - Decentralized modern chat\nMozilla’s thoughts on Matrix\nGNOME’s thoughts on Matrix\n\n\nPhoto by NeONBRAND on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests:  Jocelyn Matthews and Greg Sutcliffe.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eFiguring out what the standard pay is for a DevRel professional can be difficult, especially when considering expectations, experience, and different niche industries within tech. What’s the average, what makes sense for the role, what’s fair - these are all questions that come to mind when considering compensation for what we do. Luckily, today’s guests have gathered some information and crunched the numbers to help you make a more informed approach to what a fair salary is for your role.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://dev.to/bffjossy/2021-devrel-salary-survey-results-table-of-contents-43fe\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel Collective 2021 Salary Survey Results\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://dev.to/floord/how-do-we-get-sponsors-to-support-our-tech-event-4mej\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHow do we get sponsors to support our tech event? - DEV Community\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://devrelresourc.es/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRelResourc.es\u003c/a\u003e is live!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.hashicorp.com/blog/mitchell-s-new-role-at-hashicorp\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMitchell’s New Role at HashiCorp\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMailchimp’s\u003ca href=\"https://mailchimp.com/developer/blog/empowering-developers-empower-underdog/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e Engineering Blog\u003c/a\u003e is now LIVE!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eGreg\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://matrix.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMatrix.org\u003c/a\u003e - Decentralized modern chat\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://exple.tive.org/blarg/category/irc/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMozilla’s thoughts\u003c/a\u003e on Matrix\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://blog.ergaster.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGNOME’s thoughts\u003c/a\u003e on Matrix\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@neonbrand?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNeONBRAND\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@neonbrand?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests:  Jocelyn Matthews and Greg Sutcliffe.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Figuring out what the standard pay is for a DevRel professional can be difficult, especially when considering expectations, experience, and different niche industries within tech. What’s the average, what makes sense for the role, what’s fair - these are all questions that come to mind when considering compensation for what we do. Luckily, today’s guests have gathered some information and crunched the numbers to help you make a more informed approach to what a fair salary is for your role.","date_published":"2021-10-15T14:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/847073ac-837a-4211-b1ab-e3d9d84086e2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":42706220,"duration_in_seconds":2344}]},{"id":"1c89c250-0a2e-4dad-8213-f22475174532","title":"Virtual Events and ROI - Are we getting our money's worth? (Ep 61)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/61-virtual-events-and-roi","content_text":"Over the last year, we’ve talked about virtual events quite a bit - from how to get started to bringing things together in a short period of time. That said, being a sponsor at these virtual events has been somewhat of a challenge. With no real “booth” or physical location for interaction, where can value be found in these events and how do we show the benefits to our sponsoring organizations. To discuss this, we brought together a few folks who have experienced virtual events from different points of view.\n\nCheckouts\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nHow do we get sponsors to support our tech event? - DEV Community 👩‍💻👨‍💻\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nDisconnect if you can – highly recommend hiking! If you have a dog… https://dogtrekker.com has great resources for filtering hikes by dog-friendly, offleash, etc.\n\n\nMatty Stratton\n\n\nTed Lasso. That’s it.\nWe Appreciate Your Enthusiasm - The Oral History of Q101 by James VanOsdol\nFollow my dog on [Instagram](instagram.com/moxie_aussie) or [Twitter](twitter.com/moxieaussie).\n\n\nBen Lloyd Pearson\n\n\nGoogle Instant Apps - I hate apps, this lets you use them without installing them to your phone.\n\n\nPJ Hagerty \n\n\nDecibullz - ear plugs you can mold at home\nRever - motorcycle rider social media platform\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Ben Lloyd Pearson and Matty Stratton.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eOver the last year, we’ve talked about virtual events quite a bit - from how to get started to bringing things together in a short period of time. That said, being a sponsor at these virtual events has been somewhat of a challenge. With no real “booth” or physical location for interaction, where can value be found in these events and how do we show the benefits to our sponsoring organizations. To discuss this, we brought together a few folks who have experienced virtual events from different points of view.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://dev.to/floord/how-do-we-get-sponsors-to-support-our-tech-event-4mej\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHow do we get sponsors to support our tech event?\u003c/a\u003e - DEV Community 👩‍💻👨‍💻\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDisconnect if you can – highly recommend hiking! If you have a dog… \u003ca href=\"https://dogtrekker.com\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ehttps://dogtrekker.com\u003c/a\u003e has great resources for filtering hikes by dog-friendly, offleash, etc.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMatty Stratton\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eTed Lasso. That’s it.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://smile.amazon.com/We-Appreciate-Your-Enthusiasm-History/dp/0983994382\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWe Appreciate Your Enthusiasm - The Oral History of Q101\u003c/a\u003e by James VanOsdol\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eFollow my dog on [Instagram](instagram.com/moxie_aussie) or [Twitter](twitter.com/moxieaussie).\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBen Lloyd Pearson\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.lifewire.com/what-are-google-instant-apps-4770056\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGoogle Instant Apps\u003c/a\u003e - I hate apps, this lets you use them without installing them to your phone.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.decibullz.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDecibullz\u003c/a\u003e - ear plugs you can mold at home\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.rever.co/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRever\u003c/a\u003e - motorcycle rider social media platform\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Ben Lloyd Pearson and Matty Stratton.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Over the last year, we’ve talked about virtual events quite a bit - from how to get started to bringing things together in a short period of time. That said, being a sponsor at these virtual events has been somewhat of a challenge. With no real “booth” or physical location for interaction, where can value be found in these events and how do we show the benefits to our sponsoring organizations. To discuss this, we brought together a few folks who have experienced virtual events from different points of view.","date_published":"2021-09-03T11:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/288c7eb1-51c4-4b85-b7c0-c155ce5fb0e5.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":39045806,"duration_in_seconds":2287}]},{"id":"ca9a93e2-3788-4d03-bf1e-2e62294b48b0","title":"After Pulse: Everything in Moderation","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/60ap","content_text":"Jason, PJ, Wesley, and SJ sit down to discuss what they learned from our guest on moderation and some of the pitfalls they've experienced in being a part of moderated communities.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eJason, PJ, Wesley, and SJ sit down to discuss what they learned from our guest on moderation and some of the pitfalls they've experienced in being a part of moderated communities.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason, PJ, Wesley, and SJ sit down to discuss what they learned from our guest on moderation and some of the pitfalls they've experienced in being a part of moderated communities.","date_published":"2021-06-25T10:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/881ff766-8ea9-44a0-bafa-6339cf93d055.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":34822435,"duration_in_seconds":1074}]},{"id":"f60ddfbb-84ab-4f4a-9492-f803f5071ba6","title":"Everything in Moderation (Ep 60)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/60-everything-in-moderation","content_text":"One of the most difficult parts of managing a community is ensuring everyone adheres to a universally acceptable system of behavior. With events, there is generally a Code of Conduct that makes it clear what behaviors are acceptable, what behaviors aren’t, and the consequences of operating outside of the rules. Sometimes it falls on an individual or a team to handle this in the online world. Today, we’ll be talking about moderation with a guest who knows exactly how it works.\n\nCheckouts\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nTire rings\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nPick your battles, take some time, and give yourself a breather.\n\n\nRosie Sherry\n\n\nCommunity Creator Economy\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nCall of Conduct - an app to track Code of Conduct reporting - still in beta\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Rosie Sherry.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eOne of the most difficult parts of managing a community is ensuring everyone adheres to a universally acceptable system of behavior. With events, there is generally a Code of Conduct that makes it clear what behaviors are acceptable, what behaviors aren’t, and the consequences of operating outside of the rules. Sometimes it falls on an individual or a team to handle this in the online world. Today, we’ll be talking about moderation with a guest who knows exactly how it works.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.titanium-buzz.com/tire-tread-rings/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTire rings\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ePick your battles, take some time, and give yourself a breather.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eRosie Sherry\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rosie.land/posts/the-role-youtubers-streamers-and-gamers-played-in-the-community-creator-economy\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCommunity Creator Economy\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.callofconduct.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCall of Conduct\u003c/a\u003e - an app to track Code of Conduct reporting - still in beta\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Rosie Sherry.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"One of the most difficult parts of managing a community is ensuring everyone adheres to a universally acceptable system of behavior. With events, there is generally a Code of Conduct that makes it clear what behaviors are acceptable, what behaviors aren’t, and the consequences of operating outside of the rules. Sometimes it falls on an individual or a team to handle this in the online world. Today, we’ll be talking about moderation with a guest who knows exactly how it works.","date_published":"2021-06-04T13:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/9b06db49-b152-4c6b-b8d5-04ce77174bfa.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":40933447,"duration_in_seconds":2129}]},{"id":"bde66077-91c3-43c3-829b-fd2728622e45","title":"DevRel Around the World (Ep 59)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/59-devrel-around-the-world","content_text":"It’s easy to say that Developer Relations and Community Management is not universal, but sometimes, we focus so much on what is being done in our part of the world that we can forget how things might be different in different places.  In this episode, we decided to try something a little different. We reached out to folks around the world to tell their stories, to let us know what makes their experiences unique. We wanted to get a sense of what unites us in DevRel and what small or large tweaks need to made to adjust for geography and culture.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIt’s easy to say that Developer Relations and Community Management is not universal, but sometimes, we focus so much on what is being done in our part of the world that we can forget how things might be different in different places. \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eIn this episode, we decided to try something a little different. We reached out to folks around the world to tell their stories, to let us know what makes their experiences unique. We wanted to get a sense of what unites us in DevRel and what small or large tweaks need to made to adjust for geography and culture.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"It’s easy to say that Developer Relations and Community Management is not universal, but sometimes, we focus so much on what is being done in our part of the world that we can forget how things might be different in different places. In this episode, we decided to try something a little different. We reached out to folks around the world to tell their stories, to let us know what makes their experiences unique. We wanted to get a sense of what unites us in DevRel and what small or large tweaks need to made to adjust for geography and culture.","date_published":"2021-05-28T11:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/f5b0dd09-f9ad-44f1-9590-50724ee7e8e9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":56749121,"duration_in_seconds":1746}]},{"id":"3a6daa97-547c-4be0-b013-f3b317f95d32","title":"Online Community Platforms (Ep 58)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/58-online-community-platforms","content_text":"Creating a place for your specific community to gather online is a challenge every Developer Relations or Community team is likely going to address at some point, whether it’s because your executive team is asking you to create this space or you see a need for it. In this episode of Community Pulse, we talk to two specialists in the community industry about what to keep in mind when evaluating how to create a place for your community to gather online. \n\nCheckouts\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nDemystifying Management course by Lara Hogan\n\n\nPJ Hagerty \n\n\nLiz Phair - Spanish Doors\n\n\nWesley Faulkner \n\n\nAn NDA Was Designed to Keep Me Quiet by Ifeoma Ozoma - California legislature begins hearings on the Silenced No More Act - Ms. Ozoma is a tech policy expert with experience leading global public policy efforts at Pinterest, Facebook and Google.\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nMeg Stalter: My pandemic savior\n\n\nNoele Flowers\n\n\nGardening is “growing” in popularity (pun compliments of Wesley)\nC School\n\n\nJono Bacon\n\n\nTools: Topia.io / Superhuman\nRahul Vohra’s Product Market Fit Engine\nThe Obstacle Is The Way\nI created a heavy metal project across the US, Germany, Finland, Denmark - all because the Internet is amazing\n\n\nPhoto by Prateek Katyal on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Jono Bacon and Noele Flowers.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eCreating a place for your specific community to gather online is a challenge every Developer Relations or Community team is likely going to address at some point, whether it’s because your executive team is asking you to create this space or you see a need for it. In this episode of Community Pulse, we talk to two specialists in the community industry about what to keep in mind when evaluating how to create a place for your community to gather online. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://courses.wherewithall.com/bundles/demystifying-management\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDemystifying Management\u003c/a\u003e course by Lara Hogan\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/album/3PuDlwKjn1hN7YzictnNhM\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLiz Phair - Spanish Doors\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/opinion/nda-work-discrimination.html\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAn NDA Was Designed to Keep Me Quiet\u003c/a\u003e by Ifeoma Ozoma - California legislature begins hearings on the Silenced No More Act - Ms. Ozoma is a tech policy expert with experience leading global public policy efforts at Pinterest, Facebook and Google.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/megsstalter/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMeg Stalter\u003c/a\u003e: My pandemic savior\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNoele Flowers\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eGardening is “growing” in popularity (pun compliments of Wesley)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.community.club/c-school\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eC School\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJono Bacon\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eTools: \u003ca href=\"https://topia.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTopia.io\u003c/a\u003e / \u003ca href=\"https://superhuman.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSuperhuman\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://vimeo.com/360426630\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRahul Vohra’s Product Market Fit Engine\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Obstacle-Way-Timeless-Turning-Triumph/dp/1591846358\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Obstacle Is The Way\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eI created a heavy metal project across the US, Germany, Finland, Denmark - all because the Internet is amazing\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@prateekkatyal?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePrateek Katyal\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@prateekkatyal?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Jono Bacon and Noele Flowers.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Creating a place for your specific community to gather online is a challenge every Developer Relations or Community team is likely going to address at some point, whether it’s because your executive team is asking you to create this space or you see a need for it. In this episode of Community Pulse, we talk to two specialists in the community industry about what to keep in mind when evaluating how to create a place for your community to gather online.","date_published":"2021-04-16T14:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/6bb13eb3-d3f1-4844-b201-761f2ef6edbd.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":44038972,"duration_in_seconds":2688}]},{"id":"689eeba6-a168-4649-9914-a9d91dafcc81","title":"After Pulse: DevRel Content Channels","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/57ap","content_text":"The hosts sit down to discuss what we've learned from our guests on pushing limits, finding new ways to deliver content, and how the community can benefit from the larger amount of information flowing through the DevRel ecosystem now, and moving forward.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eThe hosts sit down to discuss what we've learned from our guests on pushing limits, finding new ways to deliver content, and how the community can benefit from the larger amount of information flowing through the DevRel ecosystem now, and moving forward.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"The hosts sit down to discuss what we've learned from our guests on pushing limits, finding new ways to deliver content, and how the community can benefit from the larger amount of information flowing through the DevRel ecosystem now, and moving forward.","date_published":"2021-03-31T07:30:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/ac9944fe-778a-47a4-81c3-9e4a865e4e9d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":30599523,"duration_in_seconds":942}]},{"id":"c7bd1f6b-7889-4209-87ca-6189a339a931","title":"DevRel Content Channels: What's hip. What's cool. What's, like, so out. (Ep 57)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/57-devrel-content-channels","content_text":"Developer Relations professionals are known for creating a lot of content and the platforms that are available to us seem to grow by the day. For this episode of Community Pulse, we’re diving into what platforms exist today and what types of content works best for each channel. We’re joined by two guests: Cassidy Williams and Joe Karlsson, who are known throughout the tech industry for their humorous tech-centric content. We’ll talk about how to know which channels and types of content are most effective in reaching our specific audience, and how to measure our success.\n\nCheckouts\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nMaybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb- a fantastic (non-fiction) book about therapy, from a therapist’s viewpoint\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nRenegades: Born in the USA - a podcast from Barack Obama \u0026amp; Bruce Springsteen\n\n\nWesley Faulkner \n\n\nBeyond the Gender Binary\nDemi Lovato\n Alok Vaid-Menon\n\n\nCassidy Williams\n\n\nItaewon Class - a really good k-drama on Netflix\n[Obsidian](obsidian.md) for notes (obsidian.md)\n\n\nJoe Karlsson\n\n\nWorking through the Best Picture Noms\n* Minari/ Judas and the Black Messiah - My personal favs\n* Nomadland - The one I think will win\n\n\nPhoto by Georgia de Lotz on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Cassidy Williams and Joe Karlsson.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eDeveloper Relations professionals are known for creating a lot of content and the platforms that are available to us seem to grow by the day. For this episode of Community Pulse, we’re diving into what platforms exist today and what types of content works best for each channel. We’re joined by two guests: Cassidy Williams and Joe Karlsson, who are known throughout the tech industry for their humorous tech-centric content. We’ll talk about how to know which channels and types of content are most effective in reaching our specific audience, and how to measure our success.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://lorigottlieb.com/books/maybe-you-should-talk-to-someone/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMaybe You Should Talk to Someone\u003c/a\u003e by Lori Gottlieb- a fantastic (non-fiction) book about therapy, from a therapist’s viewpoint\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/42xagXCUDsFO6a0lcHoTlv\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRenegades: Born in the USA\u003c/a\u003e - a podcast from Barack Obama \u0026amp; Bruce Springsteen\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://online.sxsw.com/event/sxsw-online/planning/UGxhbm5pbmdfMzUzMDE0\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBeyond the Gender Binary\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://online.sxsw.com/event/sxsw-online/person/RXZlbnRQZW9wbGVfNjIxNjMwMQ%3D%3D\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDemi Lovato\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://online.sxsw.com/event/sxsw-online/person/RXZlbnRQZW9wbGVfNjI4MTQ2MQ%3D%3D\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAlok Vaid-Menon\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eCassidy Williams\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeaHNQJ1kCo\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eItaewon Class\u003c/a\u003e - a really good k-drama on Netflix\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e[Obsidian](obsidian.md) for notes (obsidian.md)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJoe Karlsson\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWorking through the Best Picture Noms\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e* Minari/ Judas and the Black Messiah - My personal favs\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e* Nomadland - The one I think will win\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@georgiadelotz?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGeorgia de Lotz\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@georgiadelotz?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Cassidy Williams and Joe Karlsson.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Developer Relations professionals are known for creating a lot of content and the platforms that are available to us seem to grow by the day. For this episode of Community Pulse, we’re diving into what platforms exist today and what types of content works best for each channel. We’re joined by two guests: Cassidy Williams and Joe Karlsson, who are known throughout the tech industry for their humorous tech-centric content. We’ll talk about how to know which channels and types of content are most effective in reaching our specific audience, and how to measure our success.","date_published":"2021-03-19T11:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/afa60139-8094-4b7d-aab9-53a76ab2caed.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":33544998,"duration_in_seconds":2075}]},{"id":"81697627-caa9-4655-857e-d5907c8815fe","title":"After Pulse: Hiring and Recruiting in the Modern Era","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/56ap","content_text":"SJ, Jason, Wesley, and PJ sit down to discuss the most recent episode.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eSJ, Jason, Wesley, and PJ sit down to discuss the most recent episode.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"SJ, Jason, Wesley, and PJ sit down to discuss the most recent episode.","date_published":"2021-03-01T13:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/4d15739b-38af-4d67-9dfe-cb3068a64438.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":31735202,"duration_in_seconds":978}]},{"id":"bcc801a8-b1a1-4fff-a143-419a95495a49","title":"Hiring and Recruiting in the Modern Era (Ep 56)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/56-hiring-and-recruiting-in-the-modern-era","content_text":"As the number of engineering and developer jobs continues to grow and the skillsets diversify, DevRel has seen a wave of people being let go, followed by a sudden growth in hiring across the tech industry. Taking a look at these trends over the last year or so, we decided we would go to the experts to explain how hiring looks from the recruitment side, what people can do to improve their hiring experience, and what’s different in today’s DevRel hiring landscape.   Our hosts sit down with Jill Wohlner of Underpin and Will Staney of Proactive Talent to see where things stand, and what to expect moving forward.\n\nCheckouts\nPJ Hagerty\n* SPOTcon 2021\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nFintech DevCon\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nReckless by Selena Montgomery (aka Stacey Abrams)\nTrader Joe’s Everything Bagel Seasoning\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nNew Show on LearnTV with Jason\n\n\nJill Wholner\n\n\nTwitch, Lego \u0026amp; Love Island\nUnderpin.company\n\n\nWill Stanley\n\n\nProactive Talent Blog\nWandaVision\n\n\nPhoto by Clem Onojeghuo on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Jill Wholner.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAs the number of engineering and developer jobs continues to grow and the skillsets diversify, DevRel has seen a wave of people being let go, followed by a sudden growth in hiring across the tech industry. Taking a look at these trends over the last year or so, we decided we would go to the experts to explain how hiring looks from the recruitment side, what people can do to improve their hiring experience, and what’s different in today’s DevRel hiring landscape.\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eOur hosts sit down with Jill Wohlner of Underpin and Will Staney of Proactive Talent to see where things stand, and what to expect moving forward.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Hagerty\u003cbr\u003e\n*\u003ca href=\"https://spotcon.scoutapm.com/2021/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e SPOTcon 2021\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://fintechdevcon.io/#share\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFintech DevCon\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://selenamontgomery.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eReckless\u003c/a\u003e by Selena Montgomery (aka Stacey Abrams)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.traderjoes.com/FearlessFlyer/Article/5768\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTrader Joe’s Everything Bagel Seasoning\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://jhand.dev/learntv\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNew Show on LearnTV with Jason\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJill Wholner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.twitch.tv/jillwohlner/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTwitch, Lego \u0026amp; Love Island\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.underpin.company/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnderpin.company\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWill Stanley\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://proactivetalent.com/blog\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eProactive Talent Blog\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9140560/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWandaVision\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@clemono?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eClem Onojeghuo\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@clemono?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Jill Wholner.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"As the number of engineering and developer jobs continues to grow and the skillsets diversify, DevRel has seen a wave of people being let go, followed by a sudden growth in hiring across the tech industry. Taking a look at these trends over the last year or so, we decided we would go to the experts to explain how hiring looks from the recruitment side, what people can do to improve their hiring experience, and what’s different in today’s DevRel hiring landscape. Our hosts sit down with Jill Wohlner of Underpin and Will Staney of Proactive Talent to see where things stand, and what to expect moving forward.","date_published":"2021-02-26T07:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/9e4ad732-7813-44dd-811e-51ffa20e9874.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":46745694,"duration_in_seconds":2643}]},{"id":"f450ca47-e91d-440e-8247-9a71455dbcd7","title":"After Pulse: Internal vs External DevRel","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/55ap","content_text":"Wesley and PJ spend some time after the show to continue chatting about similarities and differences of internal and external developer relations.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWesley and PJ spend some time after the show to continue chatting about similarities and differences of internal and external developer relations.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Wesley and PJ spend some time after the show to continue chatting about similarities and differences of internal and external developer relations.","date_published":"2021-01-25T07:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/fd69d72a-317d-491c-8918-239cd3b9a2ee.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":25215907,"duration_in_seconds":774}]},{"id":"ace77ff2-1f1a-44a7-a3c0-1fbb27b2d789","title":"Internal vs. External DevRel (Ep 55)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/55-internal-vs-external-devrel","content_text":"While DevRel holds some universal truths, there is at times a difference between how we handle our external communities as opposed to our internal communities. While we are still bringing people together, some of the approaches and interested parties may change. How do we foster communities and communicate feedback within an organization? Is it so different from “traditional” DevRel?   To find out more, Wesley and PJ sit down with Aja Hammerly, Davey Shafik,  and Kevin McIntosh to talk about the ins and outs of both sides.\n\nCheckouts\nPJ\n\n\nGalactic Camera\n\n\nWesley\n\n\nEmail Dumpster Fire: Send an email, watch it printed out and immediately burned\n\n\nDavey\n\n\nPHP 8.0 released! New JIT, moar types, named arguments, annotations\n\n\nKevin\n\n\nThe Hearthstone platform changed it monetization model and the community is up in arms about it\nLunch Club\n\n\nAja\n\n\nExposure Notifications platform - Apple/Google Project Using technology to help public health authorities fight COVID-19\n\nPhoto by Jonas Jacobsson on Unsplash\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Aja Hammerly, Davey Shafik, and Kevin McIntosh.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWhile DevRel holds some universal truths, there is at times a difference between how we handle our external communities as opposed to our internal communities. While we are still bringing people together, some of the approaches and interested parties may change. How do we foster communities and communicate feedback within an organization? Is it so different from “traditional” DevRel?\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eTo find out more, Wesley and PJ sit down with \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/the_thagomizer\"\u003eAja Hammerly\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/dshafik\"\u003eDavey Shafik, \u003c/a\u003e and Kevin McIntosh to talk about the ins and outs of both sides.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://app.galactic.io/camera\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGalactic Camera\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://hey.science/dumpster-fire\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eEmail Dumpster Fire\u003c/a\u003e: Send an email, watch it printed out and immediately burned\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDavey\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.php.net/releases/8.0/en.php\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePHP 8.0 released!\u003c/a\u003e New JIT, moar types, named arguments, annotations\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eKevin\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe \u003ca href=\"https://playhearthstone.com/en-us\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHearthstone\u003c/a\u003e platform changed it monetization model and the community is up in arms about it\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://lunchclub.ai/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLunch Club\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAja\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/covid19/exposurenotifications\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eExposure Notifications\u003c/a\u003e platform - Apple/Google Project Using technology to help public health authorities fight COVID-19\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\nPhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@jonasjacobsson?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJonas Jacobsson\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@jonasjacobsson?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Aja Hammerly, Davey Shafik, and Kevin McIntosh.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"While DevRel holds some universal truths, there is at times a difference between how we handle our external communities as opposed to our internal communities. While we are still bringing people together, some of the approaches and interested parties may change. How do we foster communities and communicate feedback within an organization? Is it so different from “traditional” DevRel?","date_published":"2021-01-15T10:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/f50e8299-383b-4f3b-af48-11693a02edec.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80426991,"duration_in_seconds":2499}]},{"id":"c55c7d57-8ba9-4eb0-af35-9a3dba37cd9e","title":"2020 Wrap Up (Ep 54)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/54-end-of-year","content_text":"It's been a long year in the world of DevRel! In this episode, our hosts take a look back at 2020, discuss the trends they noticed along a wave of change driven by outside forces, and give their predictions for 2021. Have a chat with Mary, Jason, SJ, Wesley, and PJ about everything community in 2020!\n\n2020 Episodes\n\n\nFinding the DevRel in You: Common Characteristics of Developer Relations Professionals - Amanda Folson \u0026amp; Geertjan Wielanga\nThe Ethical DevRel - Coraline Ada Ehmke \u0026amp; Don Goodman-Wilson\nCOVID-19 Retrospective (Community Pulse LIVE)\nDeveloper Relations And Developer Marketing: The Differences, The Similarities, The Partnerships - Elizabeth Kinsey \u0026amp; Karen White\nOnline Community Management: How DevRel Is Going Virtual - Marjorie Anderson \u0026amp; Wesley Faulkner\nA Talk About Racism, Privilege, And DevRel: Community Pulse Live - Summer Edition\nAdvocating For DevRel As A DevRel Professional - Elizabeth Ruscitto \u0026amp; Jaime Lopez\nMetrics, KPIs, and OKRs - Oh My! - Donovan Brown and Patrick Collins\nDevRel at the Foundation - Aydrian Howard, Taylor Barnett, David Simmons\nEvents in the Pandemic - Community Pulse LIVE! - Rahmona Henry \u0026amp; Floor Drees\nBudgets Rule Everything - Bear Douglas\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIt's been a long year in the world of DevRel! In this episode, our hosts take a look back at 2020, discuss the trends they noticed along a wave of change driven by outside forces, and give their predictions for 2021. Have a chat with Mary, Jason, SJ, Wesley, and PJ about everything community in 2020!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e2020 Episodes\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eFinding the DevRel in You: Common Characteristics of Developer Relations Professionals - Amanda Folson \u0026amp; Geertjan Wielanga\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe Ethical DevRel - Coraline Ada Ehmke \u0026amp; Don Goodman-Wilson\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCOVID-19 Retrospective (Community Pulse LIVE)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDeveloper Relations And Developer Marketing: The Differences, The Similarities, The Partnerships - Elizabeth Kinsey \u0026amp; Karen White\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eOnline Community Management: How DevRel Is Going Virtual - Marjorie Anderson \u0026amp; Wesley Faulkner\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eA Talk About Racism, Privilege, And DevRel: Community Pulse Live - Summer Edition\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eAdvocating For DevRel As A DevRel Professional - Elizabeth Ruscitto \u0026amp; Jaime Lopez\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMetrics, KPIs, and OKRs - Oh My! - Donovan Brown and Patrick Collins\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRel at the Foundation - Aydrian Howard, Taylor Barnett, David Simmons\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eEvents in the Pandemic - Community Pulse LIVE! - Rahmona Henry \u0026amp; Floor Drees\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eBudgets Rule Everything - Bear Douglas\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"It's been a long year in the world of DevRel! In this episode, our hosts take a look back at 2020, discuss the trends they noticed along a wave of change driven by outside forces, and give their predictions for 2021. Have a chat with Mary, Jason, SJ, Wesley, and PJ about everything community in 2020!","date_published":"2020-12-14T13:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/7c3e087b-92cd-4be3-89ec-a06c11b37aca.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":83693363,"duration_in_seconds":2560}]},{"id":"4a37894e-b57a-4aa2-9b75-1066c4172ff6","title":"After Pulse: Budget Rules Everything Around Me","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/53ap","content_text":"Host SJ, Wesley, and Mary discuss the big budget episode and share some anecdotes on things that have been successful and others that were a bit of a trip up.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eHost SJ, Wesley, and Mary discuss the big budget episode and share some anecdotes on things that have been successful and others that were a bit of a trip up.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Host SJ, Wesley, and Mary discuss the big budget episode and share some anecdotes on things that have been successful and others that were a bit of a trip up.","date_published":"2020-11-13T08:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/e1a92a9d-5766-4abc-a7c2-4f6b0ee21b57.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":17987852,"duration_in_seconds":548}]},{"id":"63853edc-26b5-430b-87fe-4332282ba731","title":"Budget Rules Everything Around Me (Ep 53)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/53-budget-for-devrel-teams","content_text":"As we’ve mentioned in previous episodes, budget concerns are an ever changing part of working in DevRel. Now more than ever, DevRel teams are expanding their functions and responsibilities while stretching the idea of how we do the things we do. In this episode, we sit down with Bear Douglas of Slack to talk budgets, what budget allocations mean to a DevRel and how do you calculate what you need vs what you want?\n\nCheckouts\nSJ Morris\n\n\nThe Dodo empire\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nBoop My Nose Instagram\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nWesley’s kittens\n\n\nBear Douglas\n\n\nAttracting Native Pollinators\n\n\nPhoto by Kelly Sikkema on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Bear Douglas.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAs we’ve mentioned in previous episodes, budget concerns are an ever changing part of working in DevRel. Now more than ever, DevRel teams are expanding their functions and responsibilities while stretching the idea of how we do the things we do. In this episode, we sit down with Bear Douglas of Slack to talk budgets, what budget allocations mean to a DevRel and how do you calculate what you need vs what you want?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.thedodo.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Dodo empire\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/boopmynose\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBoop My Nose Instagram\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.twitter.com/wesley83\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWesley’s kittens\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBear Douglas\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2TyinhM\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAttracting Native Pollinators\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@kellysikkema?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eKelly Sikkema\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@kellysikkema?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Bear Douglas.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"As we’ve mentioned in previous episodes, budget concerns are an ever changing part of working in DevRel. Now more than ever, DevRel teams are expanding their functions and responsibilities while stretching the idea of how we do the things we do. In this episode, we sit down with Bear Douglas of Slack to talk budgets, what budget allocations mean to a DevRel and how do you calculate what you need vs what you want?","date_published":"2020-11-12T13:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/adf21f17-f5ef-4712-b19d-ec71f46b6a3e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":78334693,"duration_in_seconds":2434}]},{"id":"0c1c3358-8aa0-4c11-a557-1d3bc2b06ab4","title":"After Pulse: Events in the Pandemic - Community Pulse Live!","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/52ap","content_text":"All five hosts jump in to add some notes and references from our awesome live episode. See what Mary, Jason, PJ, SJ, and Wesley have to say!\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAll five hosts jump in to add some notes and references from our awesome live episode. See what Mary, Jason, PJ, SJ, and Wesley have to say!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"All five hosts jump in to add some notes and references from our awesome live episode. See what Mary, Jason, PJ, SJ, and Wesley have to say!","date_published":"2020-10-13T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/2b94a446-70fb-43bb-ba5b-19bc0c0422a8.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":24935160,"duration_in_seconds":765}]},{"id":"b10f3a7f-69fd-45ec-b3fc-785af371d245","title":"Events in the Pandemic - Community Pulse Live! (Ep 52)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/52-events-in-the-pandemic","content_text":"We’re almost 8 months into a global pandemic. The last time we gathered to discuss COVID-19, we were mere weeks in and scrambling to figure out how to adjust. Given how much has changed since then, it was time for another Community Pulse LIVE! Our questions include “What have we learned?” “How the pandemic has changed our perception of attending in-person conferences?” and “How does this uncertainty impact our budgets for the years to come?”. Guests Rahmona Henry (HubSpot Developer Advocate) and Floor Drees (Microsoft DevRel Program Manager) join us to discuss how they’re approaching their 2021 event strategy.\n\nGuests\n\n\nRahmona Henry, Developer Advocate at HubSpot\nFloor Drees, DevRel Program Manager Microsoft\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Floor Drees and Rahmona Henry.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWe’re almost 8 months into a global pandemic. The last time we gathered to discuss COVID-19, we were mere weeks in and scrambling to figure out how to adjust. Given how much has changed since then, it was time for another Community Pulse LIVE! Our questions include “What have we learned?” “How the pandemic has changed our perception of attending in-person conferences?” and “How does this uncertainty impact our budgets for the years to come?”. Guests Rahmona Henry (HubSpot Developer Advocate) and Floor Drees (Microsoft DevRel Program Manager) join us to discuss how they’re approaching their 2021 event strategy.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eGuests\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eRahmona Henry, Developer Advocate at HubSpot\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/floordrees\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFloor Drees\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://floord.github.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel Program Manager Microsoft\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Floor Drees and Rahmona Henry.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"We’re almost 8 months into a global pandemic. The last time we gathered to discuss COVID-19, we were mere weeks in and scrambling to figure out how to adjust. Given how much has changed since then, it was time for another Community Pulse LIVE! Our questions include “What have we learned?” “How the pandemic has changed our perception of attending in-person conferences?” and “How does this uncertainty impact our budgets for the years to come?”. Guests Rahmona Henry (HubSpot Developer Advocate) and Floor Drees (Microsoft DevRel Program Manager) join us to discuss how they’re approaching their 2021 event strategy.","date_published":"2020-10-13T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/89dc61fb-2bea-4548-a46d-5cb53b08cb4b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":106250986,"duration_in_seconds":3306}]},{"id":"d086bc55-faf1-433f-8487-170452ac3df9","title":"After Pulse: DevRel at the Foundation","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/51ap","content_text":"After chatting with our guests, Wesley, SJ, and Mary are joined by PJ to talk about early stage DevRel and their views on experiences in the startup world.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAfter chatting with our guests, Wesley, SJ, and Mary are joined by PJ to talk about early stage DevRel and their views on experiences in the startup world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"After chatting with our guests, Wesley, SJ, and Mary are joined by PJ to talk about early stage DevRel and their views on experiences in the startup world.","date_published":"2020-09-25T10:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/14b06d44-65dd-4d8c-b518-9ac841b17a92.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":34919355,"duration_in_seconds":1077}]},{"id":"cbaf6e57-839e-4bc9-be58-c1e8d145b84a","title":"DevRel at the Foundation (Ep 51)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/51-devrel-foundations","content_text":"As companies are starting to realize that Developer Relations can be a competitive advantage, we’ve been noticing more and more job descriptions for Developer Advocates or DevRel Professionals who are the first non-engineering hire at early-stage startups. But when you’re an early hire working alongside the founder and a few engineers, what does your role look like? How is it different from joining a company as employee #30, 120, or even 1432?   Mary, SJ, and Wesley chat with David G Simmons, Taylor Barnett, and Aydrian Howard to talk about being DevRel number one.\n\nCheckouts\nAydrian Howard\n\n\nParty Corgi Network\n\n\nTaylor Barnett\n\n\nWhy Fish Don’t Exit\n\n\nDavid Simmons\n\n\nStop sending me “Ewww, David!” Memes, please and thank you\nDr Tatiana’s Sec Advice to All Creation\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nSchitt’s Creek\nFlyless Dev Community\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nInsulting your employees is costing you money\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nHot Ones\n\n\nPhoto by Andrew Neel on Unsplash\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Aydrian Howard, David G. Simmons, and Taylor Barnett.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAs companies are starting to realize that Developer Relations can be a competitive advantage, we’ve been noticing more and more job descriptions for Developer Advocates or DevRel Professionals who are the first non-engineering hire at early-stage startups. But when you’re an early hire working alongside the founder and a few engineers, what does your role look like? How is it different from joining a company as employee #30, 120, or even 1432?\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eMary, SJ, and Wesley chat with David G Simmons, Taylor Barnett, and Aydrian Howard to talk about being DevRel number one.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nAydrian Howard\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.partycorgi.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eParty Corgi Network\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eTaylor Barnett\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781501160271\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWhy Fish Don’t Exit\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDavid Simmons\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eStop sending me “Ewww, David!” Memes, please and thank you\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Tatianas-Sex-Advice-Creation/dp/0805063323\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDr Tatiana’s Sec Advice to All Creation\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/80036165\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSchitt’s Creek\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://flyless.dev/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFlyless Dev Community\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://real-leaders.com/insulting-your-employees-is-costing-you-money/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eInsulting your employees is costing you money\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAzrgbu8gEMIIK3r4Se1dOZWSZzUSadfZ\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHot Ones\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@andrewtneel?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAndrew Neel\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@andrewtneel?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Aydrian Howard, David G. Simmons, and Taylor Barnett.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"As companies are starting to realize that Developer Relations can be a competitive advantage, we’ve been noticing more and more job descriptions for Developer Advocates or DevRel Professionals who are the first non-engineering hire at early-stage startups. But when you’re an early hire working alongside the founder and a few engineers, what does your role look like? How is it different from joining a company as employee #30, 120, or even 1432? Mary, SJ, and Wesley chat with David G Simmons, Taylor Barnett, and Aydrian Howard to talk about being DevRel number one.","date_published":"2020-09-17T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/dedd97ed-0b3b-4a45-8e5b-adc82fa2b23f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":92600408,"duration_in_seconds":2880}]},{"id":"05eadeac-88c9-4a46-a577-a80f37b9d2b6","title":"After Pulse: Metrics, KPIs, and OKRs - Oh My!","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/50ap","content_text":"Your hosts gather together to discuss tactics, goals, and to break down everything discussed in Episode 50 with Patrick Collins and Donovan Brown!\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eYour hosts gather together to discuss tactics, goals, and to break down everything discussed in Episode 50 with Patrick Collins and Donovan Brown!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Your hosts gather together to discuss tactics, goals, and to break down everything discussed in Episode 50 with Patrick Collins and Donovan Brown!","date_published":"2020-08-31T14:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/a7b6000c-8a94-435d-ae45-a15c4967577b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":42424149,"duration_in_seconds":1312}]},{"id":"0468e2e0-8fcd-4349-a98b-c203f5ea5642","title":"Metrics, KPIs, and OKRs - Oh My! (Ep 50)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/50-metrics-kpis-and-okrs","content_text":"In this episode we want to discuss the topic of OKRs (or Objectives and Key Results). What are OKRs, and why are they beneficial to an organization? How do they differ from Key Performance Metrics (KPIs)? What even is a North Star? To help us better understand we have invited our guests Donovan Brown and Patrick Collins\n\nCheckouts\nDonovan Brown\n\n\nVision and Mission worksheet\nObjectives and Key Results: Driving Focus, Alignment, and Engagement with OKRs\n\n\nPatrick Collins\n\n\nGameJam\nDeFi flying to almost $4B\n2020th edition of The Pragmatic Programmer\nAny League of Legends fans here? Liquid \u0026gt; C9 what WHAT\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nUnderstanding Our Progress Against COVID-19\nDryer Balls\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nYou’re testing them wrong: Whiteboard coding interviews are ‘anti-women psychological stress examinations’\n“Devs” on Hulu\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\n Little Fires Everywhere (book, not tv series)\nLiz \u0026amp; Mollie instagram\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nVera Thiago’s talk from DevRelCon on North Star Metrics\nHip Hop Evolution new season on Netflix\nJelle’s Marble League on YouTube\n\n\nPhoto by Luke Chesser on Unsplash.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Donovan Brown and Patrick Collins.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIn this episode we want to discuss the topic of OKRs (or Objectives and Key Results). What are OKRs, and why are they beneficial to an organization? How do they differ from Key Performance Metrics (KPIs)? What even is a North Star? To help us better understand we have invited our guests Donovan Brown and Patrick Collins\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nDonovan Brown\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:ac5bd009-dbf3-4a22-9d34-a94e5b2b8a31\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eVision and Mission worksheet\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VP5XYTL/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_IxfiFbT5ENDYV\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eObjectives and Key Results\u003c/a\u003e: Driving Focus, Alignment, and Engagement with OKRs\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePatrick Collins\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.coloradolottery.com/news/detail/lottery-to-co-host-gamejam-hackathon/700/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGameJam\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://defipulse.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDeFi flying to almost $4B\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e2020th edition of \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Pragmatic-Programmer-journey-mastery-Anniversary/dp/0135957052\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Pragmatic Programmer\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eAny \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0MRB4sHFFg\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLeague of Legends\u003c/a\u003e fans here? Liquid \u0026gt; C9 what WHAT\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/ai/ai-for-health-covid-data\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnderstanding Our Progress Against COVID-19\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/All-Natural-Wool-Dryer-Balls/dp/B07C7M74BF/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1\u0026keywords=dryer+balls\u0026qid=1595964286\u0026sr=8-2-spons\u0026psc=1\u0026spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzTkNKWDFNWFdVWlE3JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjA3MDk1UkhNMENOU0tGTUYyJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1Njg2NjczREc3UTRXRk02WkZBJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDryer Balls\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/15/it_hiring_whiteboard/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eYou’re testing them wrong\u003c/a\u003e: Whiteboard coding interviews are ‘anti-women psychological stress examinations’\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e“\u003ca href=\"https://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/devs\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevs”\u003c/a\u003e on Hulu\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2Whq2TC\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e Little Fires Everywhere\u003c/a\u003e (book, not tv series)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/lizandmollie/?hl=en\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLiz \u0026amp; Mollie\u003c/a\u003e instagram\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eVera Thiago’s talk from \u003ca href=\"https://noti.st/veratiago/KGcdUc/north-star-metrics-okrs-to-show-devrel-value-and-get-focus\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRelCon on North Star Metrics\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/80141782\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHip Hop Evolution\u003c/a\u003e new season on Netflix\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYJdpnjuSWVOLgGT9fIzL0g\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJelle’s Marble League\u003c/a\u003e on YouTube\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@lukechesser?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLuke Chesser\u003c/a\u003e on \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@lukechesser?utm_source=unsplash\u0026utm_medium=referral\u0026utm_content=creditCopyText\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnsplash\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Donovan Brown and Patrick Collins.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In this episode we want to discuss the topic of OKRs (or Objectives and Key Results). What are OKRs, and why are they beneficial to an organization? How do they differ from Key Performance Metrics (KPIs)? What even is a North Star? To help us better understand we have invited our guests Donovan Brown and Patrick Collins.","date_published":"2020-08-13T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/962b2db1-30ed-45e2-a007-61f1f0867a7e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":102873032,"duration_in_seconds":3201}]},{"id":"192bd62e-79d1-46b4-aa44-c5236d696ea0","title":"Advocating for DevRel as a DevRel Professional (Ep 49)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/49-advocating-for-devrel","content_text":"Developer Relations needs to be put into perspective for people outside the team or community. When your Developer Relations department comes under fire, how do we switch from advocating for our community to advocating for ourselves? When DevRel is new, how do you build on activities to show the importance of having a dedicated team working with the communities your organization is involved with?   SJ and PJ sit down with Elizabeth Ruscitto and Jaime Lopez to discuss the ins and outs of explaining DevRel to folks on the outside.\n\nCheckouts\nSJ Morris\n\n\nThemed Zoom backgrounds as a team icebreaker - Fave album? Fave movie?\nPunk Rock Aerobics\n\n\nElizabeth Ruscitto\n\n\nSpotify’s new Open Source Developer portal - backstage.io\nFree Coursera course - The Science of Well-being\n\n\nJaime Lopez\n\n\n10 Ways to Help Accessibility at Conferences as a Speaker by Lindsey Kopacz\nGoogle Tech Writing Course\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nNew Album from punk band Western Addiction\nStay Home, Stay Safe, Buy Local\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eDeveloper Relations needs to be put into perspective for people outside the team or community. When your Developer Relations department comes under fire, how do we switch from advocating for our community to advocating for ourselves? When DevRel is new, how do you build on activities to show the importance of having a dedicated team working with the communities your organization is involved with?\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eSJ and PJ sit down with Elizabeth Ruscitto and Jaime Lopez to discuss the ins and outs of explaining DevRel to folks on the outside.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThemed Zoom backgrounds as a team icebreaker - Fave album? Fave movie?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://www.punkrockaerobics.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePunk Rock Aerobics\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eElizabeth Ruscitto\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eSpotify’s new Open Source Developer portal - \u003ca href=\"https://backstage.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ebackstage.io\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eFree Coursera course - \u003ca href=\"https://www.coursera.org/learn/the-science-of-well-being\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Science of Well-being\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJaime Lopez\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.a11ywithlindsey.com/blog/accessibility-conferences\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e10 Ways to Help Accessibility at Conferences as a Speaker\u003c/a\u003e by Lindsey Kopacz\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://developers.google.com/tech-writing\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGoogle Tech Writing Course\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eNew Album from punk band \u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/album/5wJ7lrs5A9RhhHbaAsuOKe\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWestern Addiction\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eStay Home, Stay Safe, Buy Local\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Developer Relations needs to be put into perspective for people outside the team or community. When your Developer Relations department comes under fire, how do we switch from advocating for our community to advocating for ourselves? When DevRel is new, how do you build on activities to show the importance of having a dedicated team working with the communities your organization is involved with? SJ and PJ sit down with Elizabeth Ruscitto and Jaime Lopez to discuss the ins and outs of explaining DevRel to folks on the outside.","date_published":"2020-07-07T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/1388ce8b-54de-460e-b4c2-de6890a4dcbd.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":72961390,"duration_in_seconds":2266}]},{"id":"ac1d9cc5-93d3-45dd-aa73-fb95c3d36250","title":"A Talk about Racism, Privilege, and DevRel: Community Pulse Live - Summer Edition (Ep 48)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/48-cplive-summer2020","content_text":"These past few weeks have brought us to what we hope will be an inflection point with regard to systemic racism in the United States. We’re now asking the question: How can we work as a community in DevRel to ensure we not only address this critical moment, but actively work toward eradicating systemic racism in our industry?\n\nLinks\n\n\nAnti-racism resources\nKim Crayton’s Introduction to Being an Antiracist course - June 27\nScaffolded Anti-racist Resources\nScene On Radio podcast Season 2: Seeing White podcast series\nWesley Faulkner’s “5 steps to combat racism” video\nWesley Faulkner’s “Are we all racist?” video\nDifficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, Sheila Heen (summary)\nWalk on by: why do we ignore bad behaviour?\nZootopia (animated movie for kids that clearly illustrates racism)\nWe don’t do that here (a way to shut down racist and/or inappropriate comments)\nHow to continue without burning out:\nTwitter thread from Tatiana Mac\n unthreaded/blogpost version from Rain Leander\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eThese past few weeks have brought us to what we hope will be an inflection point with regard to systemic racism in the United States. We’re now asking the question: How can we work as a community in DevRel to ensure we not only address this critical moment, but actively work toward eradicating systemic racism in our industry?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BRlF2_zhNe86SGgHa6-VlBO-QgirITwCTugSfKie5Fs/preview?pru=AAABcqmy2m0*LgjLwByxnCmOdUIYC5K-Jw\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAnti-racism resources\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eKim Crayton’s\u003ca href=\"https://ti.to/kim.crayton.llc/introduction-to-being-an-antiracist\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e Introduction to Being an Antiracist course\u003c/a\u003e - June 27\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PrAq4iBNb4nVIcTsLcNlW8zjaQXBLkWayL8EaPlh0bc/preview?pru=AAABcrhVSzg*-es-J-wdNH3QO0hGxT6iEw\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eScaffolded Anti-racist Resources\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eScene On Radio podcast Season 2: \u003ca href=\"http://www.sceneonradio.org/seeing-white/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSeeing White podcast series\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWesley Faulkner’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY02zKjyA9Q\u0026feature=youtu.be\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e“5 steps to combat racism”\u003c/a\u003e video\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWesley Faulkner’s \u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/rBB9KQr4XfI\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e“Are we all racist?”\u003c/a\u003e video\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDifficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, Sheila Heen (\u003ca href=\"https://www.beyondintractability.org/bksum/stone-difficult\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003esummary\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/apr/05/walk-on-by-why-do-we-ignore-bad-behaviour\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWalk on by: why do we ignore bad behaviour?\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zootopia\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eZootopia\u003c/a\u003e (animated movie for kids that clearly illustrates racism)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://thagomizer.com/blog/2017/09/29/we-don-t-do-that-here.html\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWe don’t do that here\u003c/a\u003e (a way to shut down racist and/or inappropriate comments)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eHow to continue without burning out:\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/TatianaTMac/status/1268909345141473281\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTwitter thread\u003c/a\u003e from Tatiana Mac\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"http://groningenrain.nl/dutch-lock-down-day-eighty-four/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eunthreaded/blogpost\u003c/a\u003e version from Rain Leander\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"These past few weeks have brought us to what we hope will be an inflection point with regard to systemic racism in the United States. We’re now asking the question: How can we work as a community in DevRel to ensure we not only address this critical moment, but actively work toward eradicating systemic racism in our industry?","date_published":"2020-06-17T21:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/6ff5f241-a7e3-48f3-a30e-bc1a4c4625dc.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":120790055,"duration_in_seconds":3700}]},{"id":"338a433e-2a3c-4987-9a5f-3289d2bdcc49","title":"After Pulse: Online Community Management","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/47ap","content_text":"SJ, Jason, and PJ sit down to discuss their recent conversation with Marjorie and Wesley, when what started as a simple conversation about online communities turned into an opportunity to learn from experts at a time when our entire industry seems to have been turned on its head. They then pivot into what makes something ephemeral versus what \"sticks\" with you and has a lasting impact on your career as well as those around you.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eSJ, Jason, and PJ sit down to discuss their recent conversation with Marjorie and Wesley, when what started as a simple conversation about online communities turned into an opportunity to learn from experts at a time when our entire industry seems to have been turned on its head. They then pivot into what makes something ephemeral versus what \"sticks\" with you and has a lasting impact on your career as well as those around you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"SJ, Jason, and PJ sit down to discuss their recent conversation with Marjorie and Wesley. What started as a simple conversation about online communities turned into an opportunity to learn from experts at a time when our entire industry seems to have been turned on its head. They then pivot into what makes something ephemeral versus what sticks with you and has a lasting impact on your career as well as those around you.","date_published":"2020-05-25T13:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/defe1316-a389-467b-9140-b0e651c6822d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":36582197,"duration_in_seconds":1129}]},{"id":"841fe0f8-1bc3-4414-8bdf-88f06f449b61","title":"Online Community Management: how DevRel is going virtual due to COVID-19 (Ep 47)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/47-online-community-going-virtual","content_text":"Connecting with our communities online is more important than ever right now. However, this isn’t something ALL DevRel teams are accustomed to.  In some cases, much of the online efforts have been relegated to “community management” or support.  Marjorie Anderson and Wesley Faulkner join us to talk about online communities, sharing tips, tricks, and best practices from their combined 20 years of experience.\n\nCheckouts\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nBeastie Boys documentary on Apple TV\nVito from Tito - New livestreaming platform\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nAnimal Crossing: New Horizons\n\n\nMarjorie Anderson\n\n\nHey Summit - Virtual Summit platform\nInc Founders Project Podcast - stories of entrepreneurs building our future\n\n\nWesley Faulkner\n\n\nJitsi - open source video conferencing\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nHang out with Jason on Twitch\nStreamlabs OBS - Customizable streaming interface\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nCover image by Mikayla Mallek.\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eConnecting with our communities online is more important than ever right now. However, this isn’t something ALL DevRel teams are accustomed to. \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eIn some cases, much of the online efforts have been relegated to “community management” or support. \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eMarjorie Anderson and Wesley Faulkner join us to talk about online communities, sharing tips, tricks, and best practices from their combined 20 years of experience.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/beastie-boys-story/umc.cmc.6d0mrskjsusw2jd2d228p88c2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBeastie Boys documentary\u003c/a\u003e on Apple TV\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://vito.community/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eVito\u003c/a\u003e from Tito - New livestreaming platform\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/animal-crossing-new-horizons-switch/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAnimal Crossing: New Horizons\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMarjorie Anderson\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://heysummit.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHey Summit\u003c/a\u003e - Virtual Summit platform\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inc-founders-project-with-alexa-von-tobel/id1455941009\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eInc Founders Project Podcast\u003c/a\u003e - stories of entrepreneurs building our future\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWesley Faulkner\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://jitsi.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJitsi\u003c/a\u003e - open source video conferencing\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eHang out with Jason on \u003ca href=\"https://www.twitch.tv/jasonhand24\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTwitch\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://streamlabs.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eStreamlabs OBS\u003c/a\u003e - Customizable streaming interface\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCover image by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@mikaylamallek\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMikayla Mallek\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Connecting with our communities online is more important than ever right now. However, this isn’t something ALL DevRel teams are accustomed to. In some cases, much of the online efforts have been relegated to “community management” or support. Marjorie Anderson and Wesley Faulkner join us to talk about online communities, sharing tips, tricks, and best practices from their combined 20 years of experience.","date_published":"2020-05-11T05:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/de72174e-48bf-44cb-b649-d562a3c5c394.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":88463878,"duration_in_seconds":2750}]},{"id":"716fddba-4be6-4720-bb27-9dd5c5a976d7","title":"After Pulse: Developer Relations and Developer Marketing","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/46ap","content_text":"Join Mary, Jason, and PJ as they reflect on their conversation with Karen and Elizabeth. They share some of their personal experiences that have shaped their opinions of marketing departments in the past and talk through the new concepts that were introduced in this episode.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eJoin Mary, Jason, and PJ as they reflect on their conversation with Karen and Elizabeth. They share some of their personal experiences that have shaped their opinions of marketing departments in the past and talk through the new concepts that were introduced in this episode.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5WfMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=565TMb81SaWwrJYbAIeOxQ\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Join Mary, Jason, and PJ as they reflect on their conversation with Karen and Elizabeth. They share some of their personal experiences that have shaped their opinions of marketing departments in the past and talk through the new concepts that were introduced in this episode.","date_published":"2020-04-27T11:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/93b7c277-1c39-4042-884f-31bbd5786522.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":34736515,"duration_in_seconds":1071}]},{"id":"b3734be9-7c45-48df-a3d7-2779712edb90","title":"Developer Relations and Developer Marketing: the differences, the similarities, the partnerships (Ep 46)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/46-devrel-dev-marketing","content_text":"It’s not hard to say there is a difference between Developer Relations and Developer Marketing...but where does that line sit? There is definitely overlap, but how do we identify efforts or activities that fall more into one category or the other? To help us define these roles and where those lines might be, we are joined by guests Elizabeth Kinsey and Karen White.\n\nCheckouts\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nGuided Explorations by RZA\nAuxParty! - The much-heralded return of Turntable.fm!\nJen Myer’s Modern Adventuress Newsletter\n\n\nKaren White\n\n\nIt’s Been a Minute with Sam Sanders (podcast)\n\n\nElizabeth Kinsey\n\n\nFiona Apple’s new album (the first 10/10 album on Pitchfork in almost a decade)\nLauren Duca’s newsletter, Pancake Brain, and Sarah Stockdale’s newsletter, We Need to Talk About This: a lovely dose of political action, self-care and clarity without any of the toxic positivity\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nThe Adventure Zone: Here There Be Gerlins - D\u0026amp;D podcast turned graphic novel\nThe Daily podcast from New York Times - COVID-19 news plus “A Bit of Relief”\nSome Good News - weekly dose of goodness compliments of John Krasinski\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nRed Rising Series\n365 Meaningful Conversations\n\n\nLinks\n\n\nDeveloper Relations and Developer Marketing…they aren’t the same thing by PJ Hagerty\nCover image by Ricardo Gomez Angel.\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Elizabeth Kinsey and Karen White.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIt’s not hard to say there is a difference between Developer Relations and Developer Marketing...but where does that line sit? There is definitely overlap, but how do we identify efforts or activities that fall more into one category or the other? To help us define these roles and where those lines might be, we are joined by guests Elizabeth Kinsey and Karen White.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/album/2XZkvTFqEDLC7CEM69gR47?si=VZvGd6JmQtOz6djsWj85Jw\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGuided Explorations by RZA\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://auxparty.com/devrel-collective\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAuxParty!\u003c/a\u003e - The much-heralded return of Turntable.fm!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eJen Myer’s \u003ca href=\"https://jenmyers.substack.com/p/13-march-2020\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eModern Adventuress Newsletter\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eKaren White\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510317/its-been-a-minute-with-sam-sanders\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eIt’s Been a Minute\u003c/a\u003e with Sam Sanders (podcast)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eElizabeth Kinsey\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.vulture.com/2020/04/fiona-apple-fetch-the-bolt-cutters-songs.html\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFiona Apple’s new album\u003c/a\u003e (the first 10/10 album on Pitchfork in almost a decade)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eLauren Duca’s newsletter, \u003ca href=\"https://laurenduca.substack.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePancake Brain\u003c/a\u003e, and Sarah Stockdale’s newsletter, \u003ca href=\"https://www.wntta.co/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWe Need to Talk About This\u003c/a\u003e: a lovely dose of political action, self-care and clarity without any of the toxic positivity\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2VHNQ1M\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Adventure Zone: Here There Be Gerlins\u003c/a\u003e - D\u0026amp;D podcast turned graphic novel\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/column/the-daily\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Daily podcast\u003c/a\u003e from New York Times - COVID-19 news plus “A Bit of Relief”\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOe_y6KKvS3PdIfb9q9pGug\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSome Good News\u003c/a\u003e - weekly dose of goodness compliments of John Krasinski\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2Vrg7un\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRed Rising Series\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://365meaningfulconversations.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e365 Meaningful Conversations\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://medium.com/@aspleenic/developer-relations-and-developer-marketing-they-arent-the-same-thing-35b896159825\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDeveloper Relations and Developer Marketing…they aren’t the same thing\u003c/a\u003e by PJ Hagerty\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCover image by \u003ca href=\"https://unsplash.com/@ripato\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRicardo Gomez Angel\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Elizabeth Kinsey and Karen White.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"It’s not hard to say there is a difference between Developer Relations and Developer Marketing...but where does that line sit? There is definitely overlap, but how do we identify efforts or activities that fall more into one category or the other? To help us define these roles and where those lines might be, we are joined by guests Elizabeth Kinsey and Karen White.","date_published":"2020-04-21T18:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/dff30c46-e4f6-4b9c-9b1d-ca691b762fea.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80141523,"duration_in_seconds":2490}]},{"id":"3fc435c6-2990-4210-837a-e4eb563b1893","title":"COVID-19 Retrospective - Community Pulse LIVE! ","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/45covid19-bonus","content_text":"This has been a surreal and historic few weeks across the globe. We recently gathered a group of DevRel professionals to talk about how COVID-19 has impacted them and their DevRel role, from what their current focuses are, how their Q2 goals have changed, whether they're transitioning to online events (and what that will look like in the future), and more. Join us for a special live episode as we dig into the potential long term changes to our industry post COVID-19.  \n\nMentions\n\n\nSarah Thiam’s post on online events\nTech Events Cancelled\nDevRel Weekly COVID-related resources\nMinute on the Mic\nZoom features\nOnline Events Platforms (outside of Zoom):\nHopin: Online Events Platform\n BlueJeans\n Mozilla Hubs\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eThis has been a surreal and historic few weeks across the globe. We recently gathered a group of DevRel professionals to talk about how COVID-19 has impacted them and their DevRel role, from what their current focuses are, how their Q2 goals have changed, whether they're transitioning to online events (and what that will look like in the future), and more. Join us for a special live episode as we dig into the potential long term changes to our industry post COVID-19.\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMentions\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://dev.to/truckerfling/community-management-in-a-crisis-coronavirus-lessons-part-2-6da\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSarah Thiam’s post on online events\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://airtable.com/shrETNURgXNrGWbd8/tblc49hMMykARebo8?blocks=hide\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTech Events Cancelled\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.gettoby.com/p/t2cnftdvglsh\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRel Weekly COVID-related resources\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/nimbinatus/status/1235936677929025538\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMinute on the Mic\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/patrickdebois/status/1243108672269619200?s=20\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eZoom features\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eOnline Events Platforms (outside of Zoom):\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://hopin.to/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHopin: Online Events Platform\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"http://bluejeans.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBlueJeans\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://hubs.mozilla.com/#/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMozilla Hubs\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"This has been a surreal and historic few weeks across the globe. We recently gathered a group of DevRel professionals to talk about how COVID-19 has impacted them and their DevRel role, from what their current focuses are, how their Q2 goals have changed, whether they’re transitioning to online events (and what that will look like in the future), and more. Join us for a special live episode as we dig into the potential long term changes to our industry post COVID-19.","date_published":"2020-03-31T19:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/c6a7b5ac-bf9d-40eb-a4dd-e68accab2c4f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":129456080,"duration_in_seconds":4031}]},{"id":"0afc0cc4-ad0a-40ed-be6f-85a9cb4fc49c","title":"After Pulse: The Ethical DevRel","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/45ap","content_text":"PJ, SJ, and Mary chat further on the subject of ethics following Episode 45. Tune in to hear more from their own unique perspectives once the guests have left.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003ePJ, SJ, and Mary chat further on the subject of ethics following Episode 45. Tune in to hear more from their own unique perspectives once the guests have left.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"PJ, SJ, and Mary chat further on the subject of ethics following Episode 45. Tune in to hear more from their own unique perspectives once the guests have left.","date_published":"2020-03-24T14:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/d74fcf63-05e3-47ea-b662-03e2000925d2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":49849350,"duration_in_seconds":1544}]},{"id":"7aafcbef-eb9e-4318-ae7f-75ded2b9de04","title":"The Ethical DevRel (Ep 45)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/45-ethics","content_text":"Events have a code of conduct. Projects often have rules of behavior for those who participate. There are expected rules we follow when creating content, from adhering to MLA style to ensuring ideas are delivered in a succinct way with value to the consumer. But when it comes to DevRel, there is no specific rule set or guidelines for practitioners. Beyond the external rules we need to follow as generally good humans, there is nothing to show how to be an ethical DevRel practitioner. So where does that leave us?  Coraline Ada Ehmke and Don Goodman-Wilson join us to discuss this difficult topic.\u0026lt;/p\n\nCheckouts\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nPersonal Record Club - A spotify API consuming way to share your album choices socially (based on the @PJAlbumoftheDay twitter account)\nA Drop of Midnight - Jason “Timbuktu” Diakité’s memoir on growing up African-American in Sweden and what finding his roots really means.\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nBurnout Index: A quick pulse on how work is affecting you\nThis tweet of an otter playing with an iPhone set to Careless Whisper\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nGeekbot - asynchronous standup bot on Slack for distributed teams\n\n\nDon Goodman-Wilson\n\n\nAndrew L. Russell’s Open Standards and the Digital Age: History, Ideology, and Networks\n\n\nCoraline Ada Ehmke\n\n\nTitle of Conf - A joyful new musical conference showcasing the brilliant talent thriving the tech community.\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Coraline Ada Ehmke and Don Goodman-Wilson.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cp\u003eEvents have a code of conduct. Projects often have rules of behavior for those who participate. There are expected rules we follow when creating content, from adhering to MLA style to ensuring ideas are delivered in a succinct way with value to the consumer.\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eBut when it comes to DevRel, there is no specific rule set or guidelines for practitioners. Beyond the external rules we need to follow as generally good humans, there is nothing to show how to be an ethical DevRel practitioner. So where does that leave us? \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eCoraline Ada Ehmke and Don Goodman-Wilson join us to discuss this difficult topic.\u0026lt;/p\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://personalrecord.club/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePersonal Record Club\u003c/a\u003e - A spotify API consuming way to share your album choices socially (based on the @PJAlbumoftheDay twitter account)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2wXp84F\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eA Drop of Midnight\u003c/a\u003e - Jason “Timbuktu” Diakité’s memoir on growing up African-American in Sweden and what finding his roots really means.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://burnoutindex.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBurnout Index\u003c/a\u003e: A quick pulse on how work is affecting you\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/PhilNobileJr/status/1231241745314308097\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThis tweet\u003c/a\u003e of an otter playing with an iPhone set to Careless Whisper\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://geekbot.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGeekbot\u003c/a\u003e - asynchronous standup bot on Slack for distributed teams\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDon Goodman-Wilson\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eAndrew L. Russell’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/open-standards-and-the-digital-age/3605A03EC74D80F2D30FE233C7BCBF35\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOpen Standards and the Digital Age: History, Ideology, and Networks\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eCoraline Ada Ehmke\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.titleofconf.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTitle of Conf\u003c/a\u003e - A joyful new musical conference showcasing the brilliant talent thriving the tech community.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Coraline Ada Ehmke and Don Goodman-Wilson.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Events have a code of conduct. Projects often have rules of behavior for those who participate. There are expected rules we follow when creating content, from adhering to MLA style to ensuring ideas are delivered in a succinct way with value to the consumer. But when it comes to DevRel, there is no specific rule set or guidelines for practitioners. Beyond the external rules we need to follow as generally good humans, there is nothing to show how to be an ethical DevRel practitioner. So where does that leave us? Coraline Ada Ehmke and Don Goodman-Wilson join us to discuss this difficult topic.","date_published":"2020-03-16T20:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/b12a44d9-b077-4467-b0d8-0adb924bba80.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":89082020,"duration_in_seconds":2770}]},{"id":"c3eba8cd-6bde-4e46-9a2d-9b637b66e90b","title":"After Pulse: Finding the DevRel in You","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/44ap","content_text":"Enjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"PJ and SJ expand on some of the topics addressed in Episode 44, including how our differences are part of what makes us uniquely capable to fulfill our Developer Relations responsibilities. They also touch on the pros and cons of creating a clear career path for the DevRel and Community industries and why it might not be necessary for you to move to San Francisco to succeed as a new DevRel professional (gasp!) as well as how our career paths are drastically different from those of our parents and grandparents.","date_published":"2020-02-14T13:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/d5ccb95d-fe8a-4fa2-9068-a95ce8c228b1.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":33538600,"duration_in_seconds":1034}]},{"id":"3b95f929-15d2-4531-9834-34ab046b5379","title":"Finding the DevRel In You: Common characteristics of developer relations professionals (Ep 44)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/44-finding-devrel-in-you","content_text":"Checkouts:\nSJ Morris\n\n\nMicrosoft OneNote\nFeals - CBD subscription service\n\n\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nLost in Space - Netflix show\nAlexisonfire - Season of the Flood\n\n\nAmanda Folson\n\n\nUser Stories Applied by Mike Cohn\n\n\nGeertjan Wielanga\n\n\nTweets from Venkat Subramaniam: On burnout. On listening.\nReview of “Developer, Advocate”\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/onenote/9wzdncrfhvjl\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMicrosoft OneNote\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://feals.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFeals\u003c/a\u003e - CBD subscription service\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/80104198\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLost in Space\u003c/a\u003e - Netflix show\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/album/0vwBGkJ4skQD7lAq9P7NBm\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAlexisonfire\u003c/a\u003e - Season of the Flood\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAmanda Folson\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2Gytxg6\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUser Stories Applied\u003c/a\u003e by Mike Cohn\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eGeertjan Wielanga\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eTweets from Venkat Subramaniam: \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/venkat_s/status/1216749813091332096\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOn burnout\u003c/a\u003e. \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/venkat_s/status/1216727616511594496\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOn listening\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.infoq.com/articles/developer-advocate/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eReview of “Developer, Advocate”\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"There are generally common threads in what makes a person pick a career path. Are there common characteristics for DevRel practitioners? What are they and what does one look for to see if they are ready for the DevRel life? Amanda Folson and Geertjan Wielanga join our hosts for a great conversation exploring these topics.","date_published":"2020-01-28T08:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/032a119c-d67d-4fa5-a691-6560395bb0f7.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70298564,"duration_in_seconds":2183}]},{"id":"0950509d-bc8f-4c46-950d-c2a4fdee5ef5","title":"2019 Closing Thoughts (Ep 43)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/43-2019-closing-thoughts","content_text":"Checkouts:\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nOSMIHelp.org is part of Amazon smile - donate today!\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nCare/Of - personalized vitamins based on geographic location, goals, habits, etc\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nIgnite and the Tour content and demos\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nGood American Jeans\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://osmihelp.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOSMIHelp.org\u003c/a\u003e is part of Amazon smile - donate today!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://takecareof.com/invites/mtydrn\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCare/O\u003c/a\u003ef - personalized vitamins based on geographic location, goals, habits, etc\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://cda.ms/17t\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eIgnite and the Tour content and demos\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodamerican.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGood American Jeans\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary, Jason, and PJ officially welcome new host SJ Morris to the show! We all take the opportunity to review what we've done this year, talk about some trends we've noticed within DevRel, and generally put our final thoughts on all things 2019!","date_published":"2019-12-05T13:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/91578349-0c5f-44db-ac54-38e7f326c2b8.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":98497797,"duration_in_seconds":3064}]},{"id":"0366b515-ca5c-4e56-bd23-3bd892bce7de","title":"After Pulse: What's After DevRel?","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/42ap","content_text":"Enjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Your hosts sit down to discuss the finer points of the episode - what does happen after DevRel? We take a look at some of the antecedents leading to leaving DevRel and the options we've heard folks consider in our travels and conversations.","date_published":"2019-11-26T07:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/959f63b8-3328-4ec0-8c8d-2462805b79dd.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":32843930,"duration_in_seconds":1012}]},{"id":"3fd2de5f-b162-4dac-82ee-abfdbe036039","title":"What's After DevRel?: Job fluidity, career paths, and new roles (Ep 42)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/42-job-fluidity","content_text":"Check Outs\nPJ Hagerty\n\n\nRage Against the Machine Reunite in 2020\nModern Love Season 1 (Amazon Prime) - Especially the Anne Hathaway episode (Episode 3)\nOSMIHelp.org will be at Kubecon 2019 in San Diego\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nSpace: An Invitation to Create Sustainable Rhythms of Work, Play, and Rest by Manda Carpenter - There’s a Christian devotional slant to it, but the information and messages are valuable no matter what religion you do (or don’t) practice\nHarley Merlin and the Secret Coven series by Bella Forrest\nSongland - NBC show on Hulu\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nDog Monitor (iOS)\nMicrosoft Ignite Tour (watch for the videos and tutorials)\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nfree-for.dev: super handy list of free tiers for myriad of developer products\nShort Path Distillery in Everett, MA\n\n\nShannon Burns\n\n\nWilliam Larson’s An Elegant Puzzle - a really interesting and useful book on the intricacies of engineering culture, organization and leadership challenges.\nThe Heavyweight Podcast. It’s just nice to have something heartwarming to listen to instead of getting depressed by the news ;)\n\n\nLauren Cooney\n\n\nRedshirts by John Scalzi\nTwitter’s Statement around political ads\nFascinating number of people joining RedHat! Keep an eye on that space.\n\n\nMatt Broberg\n\n\nTLDR command-line utility. Plain-Rnglish explanation of complex tools.\n Rhythm \u0026amp; Flow on Netflix. A really authentic version of The Voice but for rap, with Cardi b, T.I., Chance the Rapper.\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests:  Lauren Cooney, Matthew Broberg, and Shannon Burns.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheck Outs\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://livemusicblog.com/news/rage-against-the-machine-instagram-account-teases-2020-return/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRage Against the Machine Reunite in 2020\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2rVB6sX\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eModern Love Season 1\u003c/a\u003e (Amazon Prime) - Especially the Anne Hathaway episode (Episode 3)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/42-job-fluidity/OSMIHelp.org\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOSMIHelp.org\u003c/a\u003e will be at Kubecon 2019 in San Diego\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2BZh5Ui\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpace: An Invitation to Create Sustainable Rhythms of Work, Play, and Rest\u003c/a\u003e by Manda Carpenter - There’s a Christian devotional slant to it, but the information and messages are valuable no matter what religion you do (or don’t) practice\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2JHLmLD\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHarley Merlin and the Secret Coven series\u003c/a\u003e by Bella Forrest\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.nbc.com/songland\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSongland\u003c/a\u003e - NBC show on Hulu\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dog-monitor/id626789870\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDog Monitor\u003c/a\u003e (iOS)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMicrosoft Ignite Tour (\u003ca href=\"https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/ignite\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ewatch for the videos and tutorials\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://free-for.dev/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003efree-for.dev\u003c/a\u003e: super handy list of free tiers for myriad of developer products\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://shortpathdistillery.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eShort Path Distillery\u003c/a\u003e in Everett, MA\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eShannon Burns\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWilliam Larson’s \u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2QDxI08\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAn Elegant Puzzle\u003c/a\u003e - a really interesting and useful book on the intricacies of engineering culture, organization and leadership challenges.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://gimletmedia.com/shows/heavyweight\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Heavyweight Podcast\u003c/a\u003e. It’s just nice to have something heartwarming to listen to instead of getting depressed by the news ;)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eLauren Cooney\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/347NCnt\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRedshirts\u003c/a\u003e by John Scalzi\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jack/status/1189634360472829952\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTwitter’s Statement around political ads\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eFascinating number of people joining RedHat! Keep an eye on that space.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMatt Broberg\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://tldr.sh/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTLDR command-line utility\u003c/a\u003e. Plain-Rnglish explanation of complex tools.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/80216665\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRhythm \u0026amp; Flow\u003c/a\u003e on Netflix. A really authentic version of The Voice but for rap, with Cardi b, T.I., Chance the Rapper.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests:  Lauren Cooney, Matthew Broberg, and Shannon Burns.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"We can’t all spend the next 10-20 years on the road. So what’s next after DevRel? What does our career path look like? In this episode, we’ll talk to Matt Broberg, Shannon Burns, and Lauren Cooney, who have all segued out of Developer Relations and taken their experience into a new, exciting role. We’ll discuss how and why they did it and how their transitions have gone.","date_published":"2019-11-19T14:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/86bda34a-0858-4b54-a9d0-715eca5f0cc4.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":96643322,"duration_in_seconds":3006}]},{"id":"3c9e8cc792e14ee1a4a8cfc68e15dfb7","title":"After Pulse: Audience Segmentation","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/41ap","content_text":"Enjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary and PJ recap their conversation with SJ and Jesse, diving further into where personas fit into a DevRel strategy as well as how to acknowledge when the data you're finding doesn't reflect the ideas represented in your strategy.","date_published":"2019-10-28T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/f8c9edbb-e465-4e9c-b9a5-cd0833c7e0e5.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":18443550,"duration_in_seconds":562}]},{"id":"679b060cf44840638d9772758c506a17","title":"Audience Segmentation: Why finding your core community is an integral piece of a successful devrel strategy (Ep 41)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/41-audience-segmentation","content_text":"Checkouts:\nPJ\n\n\nLeslie Odom Jr’s new single - Under Pressure\nThe Untitled Goose Game\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nPrusa i3 MK3 kit 3D Printer\nA reminder to make time for yourself. For me, that’s been waking up 20-30m early (when I can convince myself to do so!) and reading while drinking my coffee instead of being on my phone or computer right after waking up. Taking a moment to breathe \u0026amp; start the day off right.\n\n\nSJ Morris\n\n\nCurrently reading Jia Tolentino’s Trick Mirror: a collection of essays from one of my fave journalists (on the New Yorker staff, formerly of Jezebel), on navigating our senses of self online, offline and through a feminist lens in this surreal global political moment.\n\n\nJesse Davis\n\n\nAs an outdoor enthusiast and a father of 3 boys, I’ve recently become fascinated with the idea of Nature Deficit Disorder. The idea that as our society becomes more connected we lose touch with those things that we need most of all: fresh air, peace and quiet, and uninterrupted connection with other humans in a natural setting. I’m working on ways to build that within my tightest community, my wife and kids, by doing more hiking, fishing, and campfire time.\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Jesse Davis.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eLeslie Odom Jr’s new single - \u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/track/369yrYHtNEuzMV7gRoP5G5\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnder Pressure\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://goose.game/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Untitled Goose Game\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-prusa-i3-mk3-kit.html\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePrusa i3 MK3 kit\u003c/a\u003e 3D Printer\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eA reminder to make time for yourself. For me, that’s been waking up 20-30m early (when I can convince myself to do so!) and reading while drinking my coffee instead of being on my phone or computer right after waking up. Taking a moment to breathe \u0026amp; start the day off right.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSJ Morris\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCurrently reading Jia Tolentino’s \u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2J3SktR\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTrick Mirror\u003c/a\u003e: a collection of essays from one of my fave journalists (on the New Yorker staff, formerly of Jezebel), on navigating our senses of self online, offline and through a feminist lens in this surreal global political moment.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJesse Davis\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eAs an outdoor enthusiast and a father of 3 boys, I’ve recently become fascinated with the idea of Nature Deficit Disorder. The idea that as our society becomes more connected we lose touch with those things that we need most of all: fresh air, peace and quiet, and uninterrupted connection with other humans in a natural setting. I’m working on ways to build that within my tightest community, my wife and kids, by doing more hiking, fishing, and campfire time.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Jesse Davis.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Figuring out what segment of the technical industry your product is focused on can be a difficult endeavor, but it’s necessary in order to set your DevRel team up for success. “Developers, Developers, Developers” has a nice ring to it, but in reality, it is far too large of a group to focus on. In this episode of Community Pulse, our hosts are joined by Sarah-Jane Morris, Founder of Listen Community Consulting, and Jesse Davis, Executive VP of Product and Technology at Devada, to talk about audience segmentation and how it plays into building a sustainable DevRel strategy.","date_published":"2019-10-18T16:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/ba4bd4d0-c19b-41d6-9440-5b71d1650ae6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":91554339,"duration_in_seconds":2847}]},{"id":"aa4cdcec96ee42c58d2cc259d187db45","title":"After Pulse: Open Source Community Management","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/40ap","content_text":"Enjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason, PJ, and Mary grab a post episode chat on titles, Open Source Community Management, and hills people seek out to raise their flags.","date_published":"2019-10-02T08:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/eb8e933c-6a65-45c1-95c7-704b99ecf33e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":33563474,"duration_in_seconds":1035}]},{"id":"d0f53e95672248b8915c3a97a684a417","title":"Open Source Community Management (Ep 40)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/40-oss-cmgr","content_text":"Note\nApologies for the sub-par audio levels on this episode. Mary, PJ, and Rain recorded together while onsite at Abstractions Conference and the microphone situation wasn’t ideal!\n\nCheckouts:\nPJ\n\n\nWeapons of Math Destruction: How Big Data Increases Inequality and Threatens Democracy by Cathy O’Neil\nDevOps Days Buffalo is coming up. Learn more.\n\n\nRain Leander\n\n\nA beautiful reminder about inclusivity around mental health and diversity as well as ageism.\nBlack Mirror - on Netflix\n\n\nMary Thengvall\n\n\nEuphoria - on HBO. TW: drug \u0026amp; alcohol use, suicide, gender fluidity\n\n\nSherrie Rohde\n\n\nMellow.Doodles Mental health \u0026amp; self-care Instagram account\nThe Art Therapy Sourcebook by Cathy Malchiodi\n\n\nJason Hand\n\n\nMeetEdgar.com - Social Media service\nAzure Functions \u0026amp; SignalR\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Rain Leander and Sherrie Rohde.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eNote\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nApologies for the sub-par audio levels on this episode. Mary, PJ, and Rain recorded together while onsite at Abstractions Conference and the microphone situation wasn’t ideal!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/308SMli\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWeapons of Math Destruction: How Big Data Increases Inequality and Threatens Democracy\u003c/a\u003e by Cathy O’Neil\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevOps Days Buffalo is coming up. \u003ca href=\"https://devopsdays.org/events/2019-buffalo/welcome/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLearn more\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eRain Leander\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eA beautiful reminder about inclusivity around mental health and diversity as well as ageism.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/70264888\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBlack Mirror\u003c/a\u003e - on Netflix\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.hbo.com/euphoria\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eEuphoria\u003c/a\u003e - on HBO. TW: drug \u0026amp; alcohol use, suicide, gender fluidity\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSherrie Rohde\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/mellow.doodles/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMellow.Doodles\u003c/a\u003e Mental health \u0026amp; self-care Instagram account\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2Qewr1f\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Art Therapy Sourcebook\u003c/a\u003e by Cathy Malchiodi\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Hand\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://meetedgar.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMeetEdgar.com\u003c/a\u003e - Social Media service\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://cda.ms/11s\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAzure Functions\u003c/a\u003e \u0026amp; \u003ca href=\"https://cda.ms/11t\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSignalR\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Rain Leander and Sherrie Rohde.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In this episode of Community Pulse, Jason, PJ, and Mary talk to Rain Leander and Sherrie Rohde about their role as Community Managers for open source projects and how this differs from what’s now considered Developer Relations.","date_published":"2019-09-18T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/2ac41fc6-2373-4cb0-a5ca-5dc9acb63ca3.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":73484599,"duration_in_seconds":2282}]},{"id":"2010b6e8d0924105bb8b90bedf9e3ce0","title":"After Pulse: Moving Day","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/39ap","content_text":"Enjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason and PJ get together after the show to talk moving in and out of communities, meetups, when things change, and reflect on the episode and guests' input in general.","date_published":"2019-09-17T17:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/60993bcb-b96e-428e-abf2-f40d6823a80c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":36891283,"duration_in_seconds":1139}]},{"id":"3b003ff3d5724929b5843f2cd849b4da","title":"Moving Day: how to change jobs with grace (Ep 39)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/39-moving-day","content_text":"What happens when you change jobs and have to move from one community to another?\n\nWhen it’s time to look for a new job… do you stick with the same community? Or do you seek out a change of some type?\n\nAre there companies or brands that you can’t see yourself ever working for?\n\nListen in as Jason and PJ chat with guests Alyss Noland and Joel Lord on these topics and more.\n\nCheckouts:\nPJ\n\n\nPSA from your buddy “peej”: Help, attend, host and speak at your local tech meetups!\nDevOps Days Buffalo is coming up. Learn more.\nPJ’s album of the day twitter feed - @PJAlbumoftheDay\n\n\nJoel Lord\n\n\nCheck out this sweet Open Source Personal CRM\nCalculate your carbon footprint and learn ways to offset it.\n\n\nAlyss Noland\n\n\nCurrently listening to The Knowledge Project from Shane Parrish and reading Never Split The Difference by Chris Voss and Tal Rahz\n\n\nJason\n\n\nRediscovering my record collection and updates to Discogs\nDatafactory on Azure\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Alyss Noland and Joel Lord.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWhat happens when you change jobs and have to move from one community to another?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWhen it’s time to look for a new job… do you stick with the same community? Or do you seek out a change of some type?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAre there companies or brands that you can’t see yourself ever working for?\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eListen in as Jason and PJ chat with guests Alyss Noland and Joel Lord on these topics and more.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ePSA from your buddy “peej”: Help, attend, host and speak at your local tech meetups!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevOps Days Buffalo is coming up.\u003ca href=\"https://devopsdays.org/events/2019-buffalo/welcome/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e Learn more\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ePJ’s album of the day twitter feed - \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/PJAlbumoftheDay\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e@PJAlbumoftheDay\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJoel Lord\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCheck out this sweet \u003ca href=\"https://www.monicahq.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOpen Source Personal CRM\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://less.ca/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCalculate your carbon footprint\u003c/a\u003e and learn ways to offset it.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAlyss Noland\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCurrently listening to \u003ca href=\"https://fs.blog/the-knowledge-project/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Knowledge Project\u003c/a\u003e from Shane Parrish and reading \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/B01COR1GM2/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=Never+Split+The+Difference+by+Chris+Voss+and+Tal+Rahz\u0026qid=1565809314\u0026s=gateway\u0026sr=8-1-fkmr0\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNever Split The Difference\u003c/a\u003e by Chris Voss and Tal Rahz\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eRediscovering my record collection and updates to \u003ca href=\"https://www.discogs.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDiscogs\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDatafactory on Azure\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Alyss Noland and Joel Lord.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Working with a specific community is great, but what happens when it’s time to change companies? Do you bring your community with you? Do you need to start over in a new community? What does it mean for your “personal brand”? Jason and PJ talk about all of these topics and more with this month’s guests, Alyss Noland and Joel Lord.","date_published":"2019-08-08T08:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/f54f8d7d-ce52-49e7-8b5b-3e1bf22b547c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":69869691,"duration_in_seconds":2169}]},{"id":"6dbf822b35834d378cfaca595088c574","title":"After Pulse: Conference Season","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/38ap","content_text":"Links:\n\n\nEvent Scorecard\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://bit.ly/event-scorecard\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eEvent Scorecard\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary, PJ, and Jason talk about how things have changed in the realm of tech conferences over the last decade. They discuss at what point a company should start sponsoring conferences as well as how to mitigate team-wide burnout and the fact that speaking at or sponsoring conferences takes a lot of time and energy outside of the conference dates.","date_published":"2019-08-01T12:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/17f28746-5b54-4f8e-8969-e3b9fa193e55.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":49231284,"duration_in_seconds":1524}]},{"id":"5ce287160504418283de9c5d056477eb","title":"Conference Season - Is it a thing? (Ep 38)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/38-conference-season","content_text":"\"Conference Season\" used to be a definitive time of year -- the time when things were chaotic and everything revolved around travel, talks, sponsorships, and schedules. But these days it seems like the whole year is chock-full of conferences, big and small. So how can we help build an event strategy that's sustainable, not only for our team, but for our budgets? Amanda Gonser, Manager of Community Events and Content at PagerDuty, and Matt Auerbach, Event Director at Twitch and Co-founder of Confir, join Mary, PJ, and Jason to talk about all of these topics and more.\n\nLinks\n\n\nMeasuring Event Success: Entering the Matrix by Amanda Gonser\nConfir - The conference sponsorship tool that allows you to find the best conferences for your company, created by Matt Auerbach.\nCommunity Pulse Episode 33 - Lessons Learned from Organizing Tech Events\nWhat Ever Happened to the Meetup? - blogpost from PJ Hagerty\nThe plural of Prospectus is either Prospectuses or Prospectus.\n\n\nCheckouts\nAmanda\n\n\nPagerDuty Summit is open for registration - San Francisco, Sept 23-25\nListen to the poetry book, Deaf Republic, on the BBC.\n\n\nMatt\n\n\nTwilio Signal - San Francisco, CA, Aug 6-7, 2019\nDevCom - Cologne, Aug 18-19, 2019\nFrontEnd Connect – if anyone’s familiar with the conference, let Matt know!\nScience \u0026amp; Technology section on Twitch – specifically CSharpFritz\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nDevOps Days Buffalo - Buffalo, NY, Sept 26-27, 2019\n From Crimetown podcast - The Ballad of Billy Balls - hosted by Io Tillet Wright\n Wu Tang Clan: Of Mics and Men\n\n\nMary\n\n\nAbstractions - Pittsburgh, Aug 21-23, 2019. Use discount code ChQ1Rs7bdZCwfJg for 10% off.\nCMX Summit - Redwood City (Bay Area), Sept 5-6, 2019. This link gets you 10% off.\n\n\nJason\n\n\nArtists Works\nCar Hacks: Automatic + IFTTT + RescueTime\nLittle Snitch - information on how to change your Comcast plan\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Amanda Gonser and Matt Auerbach.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u0026quot;Conference Season\u0026quot; used to be a definitive time of year -- the time when things were chaotic and everything revolved around travel, talks, sponsorships, and schedules. But these days it seems like the whole year is chock-full of conferences, big and small. So how can we help build an event strategy that\u0026#39;s sustainable, not only for our team, but for our budgets? Amanda Gonser, Manager of Community Events and Content at PagerDuty, and Matt Auerbach, Event Director at Twitch and Co-founder of Confir, join Mary, PJ, and Jason to talk about all of these topics and more.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://dev.to/amandagonser/measuring-event-success-entering-the-matrix-43em\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMeasuring Event Success: Entering the Matrix\u003c/a\u003e by Amanda Gonser\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.confir.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eConfir\u003c/a\u003e - The conference sponsorship tool that allows you to find the best conferences for your company, created by Matt Auerbach.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCommunity Pulse Episode 33 - Lessons Learned from Organizing Tech Events\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://medium.com/@aspleenic/what-ever-happened-to-the-meetup-12b047124f6a\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWhat Ever Happened to the Meetup?\u003c/a\u003e - blogpost from PJ Hagerty\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe plural of \u003ca href=\"https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prospectus\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eProspectus\u003c/a\u003e is either Prospectuses or Prospectus.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nAmanda\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://summit.pagerduty.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePagerDuty Summit\u003c/a\u003e is open for registration - San Francisco, Sept 23-25\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eListen to the poetry book, \u003ca href=\"https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0006128\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDeaf Republic\u003c/a\u003e, on the BBC.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMatt\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://signal.twilio.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTwilio Signal\u003c/a\u003e - San Francisco, CA, Aug 6-7, 2019\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.devcom.global/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevCom\u003c/a\u003e - Cologne, Aug 18-19, 2019\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://frontend-con.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFrontEnd Connect\u003c/a\u003e – if anyone’s familiar with the conference, let Matt know!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Science%20%26%20Technology\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eScience \u0026amp; Technology section on Twitch\u003c/a\u003e – specifically CSharpFritz\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://devopsdays.org/events/2019-buffalo/welcome/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevOps Days Buffalo\u003c/a\u003e - Buffalo, NY, Sept 26-27, 2019\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e From Crimetown podcast - \u003ca href=\"https://www.theballadofbillyballs.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Ballad of Billy Balls\u003c/a\u003e - hosted by Io Tillet Wright\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e Wu Tang Clan: \u003ca href=\"https://www.sho.com/wu-tang-clan-of-mics-and-men\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOf Mics and Men\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://abstractions.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAbstractions\u003c/a\u003e - Pittsburgh, Aug 21-23, 2019. \u003cem\u003eUse discount code ChQ1Rs7bdZCwfJg for 10% off.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://events.cmxhub.com/events/details/cmx-san-francisco-presents-cmx-summit-2019//#/code-join-me-at-cmx-summit-19\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCMX Summit\u003c/a\u003e - Redwood City (Bay Area), Sept 5-6, 2019. \u003cem\u003eThis link gets you 10% off.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://artistsworks.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eArtists Works\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCar Hacks: \u003ca href=\"https://automatic.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAutomatic\u003c/a\u003e + \u003ca href=\"https://ifttt.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eIFTTT\u003c/a\u003e + \u003ca href=\"https://www.rescuetime.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRescueTime\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/index.html\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLittle Snitch\u003c/a\u003e - information on how to change your Comcast plan\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Amanda Gonser and Matt Auerbach.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"\"Conference Season\" used to be a definitive time of year -- the time when things were chaotic and everything revolved around travel, talks, sponsorships, and schedules. But these days it seems like the whole year is chock-full of conferences, big and small. So how can we help build an event strategy that's sustainable, not only for our team, but for our budgets? Amanda Gonser, Manager of Community Events and Content at PagerDuty, and Matt Auerbach, Event Director at Twitch and Co-founder of Confir, join Mary, PJ, and Jason to talk about all of these topics and more.","date_published":"2019-07-25T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/b996fd96-694c-4c21-88a5-6480d3b80a11.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":94653269,"duration_in_seconds":2883}]},{"id":"2f5344d9ad414e4f84c18bcc9904ffb8","title":"What's In A Name? - the various titles within developer relations (Ep 37)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/37-whats-in-name","content_text":"Banana Bread Recipes\n\nBear:\n\n\nPreheat oven to 350.\nSift dry ingredients together (honestly, dump in a bowl and fluff with a fork): – 1.5c flour – 1c sugar – 1 tsp baking soda – 1/2 tsp salt\nMash 3 overripe bananas in a bowl.\nBeat in 1 egg.\nAdd 1 tbsp melted butter OR canola oil.\nMix wet ingredients into dry until just combined.\nAdd 1c “stuff” - chocolate chips and walnuts in my case - just combine.\nBake in a loaf pan 1h15m.\n\n\nJeremy: Dry: 2c flour 1/2c sugar 1/2t baking soda 1/2t salt 2t baking powder\n\nWet: 1c mashed ripe bananas 1 egg 1/4c butter 1t orange zest 1/3c orange juice\n\nStreusel: 2T butter 2T sugar 1/4c flour 1t orange zest\n\n\nPreheat oven to 400F.\nCombine the dry ingredients thoroughly, then the wet ingredients (separately), then add the wet ingredients to the dry.\nPut into a loaf pan (or muffin pans).\nCombine streusel and then liberally sprinkle on top of the mixture in the pan(s).\nBake for 40-45 minutes.\n\n\nCheckouts\n\nPJ\n\n\nThe Tyranny of Metrics by Jerry Z Muller\nHunt-a-Killer\n\n\nMary\n\n\nRelevant Experience Podcast\nLove Minus Eighty by Will McIntosh\nZelda: Breath of the Wild video game\n\n\nJason\n\n\nDevopsroadtrip.com\nOvercomplicated by Samuel Arbesman\n\n\nBear\n\n\nNo Hard Feelings by Molly Duffy and Liz Fosslien\n\n\nJeremy\n\n\nBetterPractices.dev by Postman\nRadical Candor by Kim Scott\nThe Indispensible Community by Richard Millington\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Bear Douglas and Jeremy Meiss.","content_html":"\u003ch3\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBanana Bread Recipes\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eBear:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ePreheat oven to 350.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eSift dry ingredients together (honestly, dump in a bowl and fluff with a fork): – 1.5c flour – 1c sugar – 1 tsp baking soda – 1/2 tsp salt\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMash 3 overripe bananas in a bowl.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eBeat in 1 egg.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eAdd 1 tbsp melted butter OR canola oil.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMix wet ingredients into dry until just combined.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eAdd 1c “stuff” - chocolate chips and walnuts in my case - just combine.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eBake in a loaf pan 1h15m.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eJeremy\u003c/strong\u003e: Dry: 2c flour 1/2c sugar 1/2t baking soda 1/2t salt 2t baking powder\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWet: 1c mashed ripe bananas 1 egg 1/4c butter 1t orange zest 1/3c orange juice\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eStreusel: 2T butter 2T sugar 1/4c flour 1t orange zest\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ePreheat oven to 400F.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCombine the dry ingredients thoroughly, then the wet ingredients (separately), then add the wet ingredients to the dry.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ePut into a loaf pan (or muffin pans).\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCombine streusel and then liberally sprinkle on top of the mixture in the pan(s).\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eBake for 40-45 minutes.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003ch3\u003eCheckouts\u003c/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/30vLcgo\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Tyranny of Metrics\u003c/a\u003e by Jerry Z Muller\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.huntakiller.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHunt-a-Killer\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://www.relevantexperiencepod.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRelevant Experience Podcast\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2Xdp5hB\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLove Minus Eighty\u003c/a\u003e by Will McIntosh\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/30yvhxx\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eZelda: Breath of the Wild\u003c/a\u003e video game\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://devopsroadtrip.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevopsroadtrip.com\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2XHEa6j\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOvercomplicated\u003c/a\u003e by Samuel Arbesman\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBear\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2S9NoXT\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNo Hard Feelings\u003c/a\u003e by Molly Duffy and Liz Fosslien\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJeremy\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://betterpractices.dev/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBetterPractices.dev\u003c/a\u003e by Postman\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2XJkBdC\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRadical Candor\u003c/a\u003e by Kim Scott\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2YRIPUK\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Indispensible Community\u003c/a\u003e by Richard Millington\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Bear Douglas and Jeremy Meiss.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Developer Advocate. Community Engineer. Developer Evangelist. Community Manager. Technical Writer. All these are job titles in DevRel, but what do they mean, and what do people think we do based on our titles? Jason, Mary, and PJ are joined by Bear Douglas, Director of Developer Relations at Slack, and Jeremy Meiss, Director of Community at Solace, to chat about the various roles within DevRel and what makes them all unique. Is it really all in the name?","date_published":"2019-07-05T16:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/c746ebdd-7771-416e-9a38-7540acc0aff0.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":106211246,"duration_in_seconds":3305}]},{"id":"2bfb63c1212a4268b0affcc3c37051d6","title":"After Pulse: What's In A Name?","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/37ap","content_text":"Links\nBrene Brown’s Netflix special\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nBrene Brown’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/81010166\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNetflix special\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"PJ, Jason, and Mary recap the conversation with Bear Douglas and Jeremy Meiss. They touch on how the growth of the industry has impacted Developer Relations job titles as well as salaries before meandering into personal brand. At the end of the day, is it really our job title that matters or is it more about how we interact with others?","date_published":"2019-07-05T16:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/d5bc671f-4708-44c9-bc0c-3339b6b317df.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":34843465,"duration_in_seconds":1075}]},{"id":"bfd796aa77f142d885c95004b648396b","title":"After Pulse: Video Content 101","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/36ap","content_text":"\nTweet from Angie Jones\nBrene Brown “The Call to Courage” trailer\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/techgirl1908/status/1128407469808660480\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTweet from Angie Jones\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr-WvA7uFDQ\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBrene Brown “The Call to Courage” trailer\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason and Mary talk about content that we produce for our personal brands as well as our corporations. What lines do we draw to maintain the boundary of our personal versus professional lives? And if that line gets blurred, how do we push pause to be able to recoup our energy and prevent burnout? We also touch on the importance of producing content that's specific to your learning style even if that topic has already been covered, because other folks likely learn the same way you do.","date_published":"2019-06-28T13:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/b58e2526-4305-4141-966c-850abf114806.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":35739571,"duration_in_seconds":1103}]},{"id":"d6d078caf7c44d06a58d455135672fd5","title":"Video Content 101 (Ep 36)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/36-video101","content_text":"Checkouts\nMary\n\n\nMoleskine Pro\nScoot Over and Make Some Room: Creating a Space Where Everyone Belongs by Heather Avis (releases in June 2019)\n\n\nDan\n\n\nPeter McKinnon’s YouTube channel\nCody Wanner’s YouTube channel\nGary Vaynerchuk’s YouTube channel\n\n\nJason\n\n\nHarvest Hosts\nHipcamp\niOverlander\nThe Dyrt\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Dan Thomas.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2LYDnxl\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMoleskine Pro\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2QheIma\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eScoot Over and Make Some Room: Creating a Space Where Everyone Belongs\u003c/a\u003e by Heather Avis (releases in June 2019)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDan\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/user/petermckinnon24\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePeter McKinnon’s YouTube channel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/user/rcwninja\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCody Wanner’s YouTube channel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCctXZhXmG-kf3tlIXgVZUlw\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGary Vaynerchuk’s YouTube channel\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://harvesthosts.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHarvest Hosts\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.hipcamp.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHipcamp\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://www.ioverlander.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiOverlander\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://thedyrt.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Dyrt\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Dan Thomas.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"We live in a world where you need to do something different in order to stick out from your competition. Written content abounds and podcasts are now a dime a dozen, but video content seems to be something of a frontier still (though growing quickly!). Dan Thomas joins us this month to talk about how to create stellar video content and build a following through vlogging.","date_published":"2019-06-10T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/dd14119f-d15e-4ae4-82b9-a09f71b4e0ba.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":95073883,"duration_in_seconds":2957}]},{"id":"a7caffbd5b3e420bad380758a8599a35","title":"After Pulse: Under the Influencers","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/35ap","content_text":"Enjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary and PJ recap the conversation they had with Marshall Kirkpatrick and Rachel Happe in Episode 35and continue to chat about the difference between popularity and influence. As DevRel professionals continue to gain influence in various fields, it's important that we have conversations around the expectations for those influencers: Should they be held to a higher standard? Is it fair to do so? We also talk about how to elevate other folks who may be new to the industry or have a smaller platform but have good insights to share.","date_published":"2019-05-14T08:30:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/d178160a-cacf-4043-80e2-6684445f4e9f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":35583265,"duration_in_seconds":1098}]},{"id":"794407e831db46e58569f89802056e90","title":"Under the Influencers (Ep 35)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/35-under-the-influencers","content_text":"Links from the show:\n\n\nThe tweet that sparked the conversation:\nContemplating influence vs popularity after speaking with Marshall Kirkpatrick at the Sprinklr event yesterday. They can be almost entirely different things. I am not popular as such but people I do connect with, I influence (and vise versa). All is right in my world ❤️ -Rachel Happe\nScreenshot from Sprinklr - the Top 10 DevRel influencers that Marshall shared during the recording\nSprinklr visualization that shows how the Top 10 DevRel influencers were determined, using in-group follow relationships on Twitter, with the accounts analyzed through friend of a friend indexing initiated by a training set of 5 accounts: DevRelIO, Brandon West, Tomomi Imura, Devrel.net, and Adam Duvander.\nConnected: The Surprising Power of Our Social Networks and How They Shape Our Lives\n\n\nKey Quotes:\n_An influencer is someone who has won the respect, interest, and attention of other subject matter experts in a particular field or context. [At Sprinklr], we measure that through analysis of the Twitter follow relationship through a specific model called Social Graph Analysis. _-Marshall Kirkpatrick\n\n[If] you’re just looking at follower counts, then it turns into “Oh! They must be an influencer! They have 110,000 followers.” And… maybe! but if it’s not consolidated into one [topic] space and half of them are bots, what’s it going to do for you? -Rachel Happe\n\nTo be a deep influencer, you have to engage in dialogue with people. You have to be able to challenge them effectively, which means you also have to be supportive… meaning, if they don’t know that you’re supportive and you challenge them, then you’re just an asshole and you’re not going to change their opinion about anything. That requires a relationship and you have to be open yourself to being changed. You can’t approach it with “I’m going to proclaim my expertise to the world and they are going to sit back and listen!” Relationships are influence. -Rachel Happe\n\n_In order to be an influencer, you have to be willing to be influenced. You have to have the capability and flexibility to say “Yes, I’m going to promote this product or work for this company, or work with this project…” but at the same time you have to be open to the idea that things might not be perfect in the world. _-PJ Hagerty\n\nWords are hard. Saying “In my experience…” or “In my expertise, that doesn’t look right”, which is different than saying “That’s wrong.” -Rachel Happe \n\n_It’s the gentle way to continue a conversation! The first is saying “Lead me to your way of thinking… help me understand” whereas “You’re wrong” ends the conversation. _-PJ Hagerty\n\nThe main difference I’ve seen between people who have a lot of followers and people who are influencers is that influencers are able to understand the power that their platform has and use that to engage people, to encourage conversations, to encourage diversity, to encourage greater thinking about issues. -Mary Thengvall\n\n_A big part of the value of these thought leaders and influencers that we haven’t touched on is not so much in the way they can move the outside world and the web that we’re all a part of… but there’s a huge source of value [for businesses] that comes from connecting with these thought leaders and influencers that can be derived from learning from them. _-Marshall Kirkpatrick\n\n_I would suggest that there’s an opportunity there (when there’s a “flash” of influence that catapults someone onto a platform with many Twitter followers) to build a relationship. There may be a signal-to-noise ratio that you need to be cautious of – perhaps only 1/10 of those people will be able to sustain the platform – but early access and development of a relationship, especially with someone that you like, who winds up growing into a position of thought leadership, means more time spent around their work and a more impactful relationship. _-Marshall Kirkpatrick\n\nIn order to draw people to a community you need to figure out who influences them. If their top influencers aren’t also in the community, those individuals aren’t going to be aware of your new community, let alone interested in joining. -Rachel Happe\n\nCheckouts:\nMarshall\n\n\nSprinklr blog\n5 Big Lessons in Community Management Based on a Decade of Experience by Rachel Happe\n\n\nRachel\n\n\nGood Black News Twitter account\nEffin Birds Twitter account\nState of Community Mgmt from Community Round Table - coming soon! In the meantime, check out the 2018 report.\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nThis Land from Gary Clark Jr\nWave App for billing, invoicing and expense tracking - great alternative to Quickbooks\nDevOps Days Buffalo, Sept 26-27\n\n\nMary\n\n\nHow to Not Always be Working by Marlee Grace - an interactive book that helps set priorities, reclaim work/life balance, and prevent burnout\nThe Adventure Zone podcast - for D\u0026amp;D fans… and those who enjoy good storytelling\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Marshall Kirkpatrick and Rachel Happe.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks from the show:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe tweet that sparked the conversation:\n\u003cem\u003eContemplating influence vs popularity after speaking with Marshall Kirkpatrick at the Sprinklr event yesterday. They can be almost entirely different things. I am not popular as such but people I do connect with, I influence (and vise versa). All is right in my world\u003c/em\u003e ❤️ -Rachel Happe\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://drive.google.com/file/d/152_VVMSG0AKVw4iZipo-s265pfhiI3v-/view?usp=sharing\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eScreenshot\u003c/a\u003e from Sprinklr - the Top 10 DevRel influencers that Marshall shared during the recording\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5fJ3k-v-mMEZnBiZEJvdFRBN2RTd1dkT3ZWZGVzZm1xM0FF/view?usp=sharing\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSprinklr visualization\u003c/a\u003e that shows how the Top 10 DevRel influencers were determined, using in-group follow relationships on Twitter, with the accounts analyzed through friend of a friend indexing initiated by a training set of 5 accounts: \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/devrelio\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRelIO\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/bwest\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBrandon West\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/girlie_mac\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTomomi Imura\u003c/a\u003e,\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/devrel_net\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e Devrel.net\u003c/a\u003e, and \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/adamd\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAdam Duvander\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2GHfOVa\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eConnected: The Surprising Power of Our Social Networks and How They Shape Our Lives\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eKey Quotes:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n_An influencer is someone who has won the respect, interest, and attention of other subject matter experts in a particular field or context. [At Sprinklr], we measure that through analysis of the Twitter follow relationship through a specific model called Social Graph Analysis. _-Marshall Kirkpatrick\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003e[If] you’re just looking at follower counts, then it turns into “Oh! They must be an influencer! They have 110,000 followers.” And… maybe! but if it’s not consolidated into one [topic] space and half of them are bots, what’s it going to do for you?\u003c/em\u003e -Rachel Happe\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eTo be a deep influencer, you have to engage in dialogue with people. You have to be able to challenge them effectively, which means you also have to be supportive… meaning, if they don’t know that you’re supportive and you challenge them, then you’re just an asshole and you’re not going to change their opinion about anything. That requires a relationship and you have to be open yourself to being changed. You can’t approach it with “I’m going to proclaim my expertise to the world and they are going to sit back and listen!” Relationships are influence.\u003c/em\u003e -Rachel Happe\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e_In order to be an influencer, you have to be willing to be influenced. You have to have the capability and flexibility to say “Yes, I’m going to promote this product or work for this company, or work with this project…” but at the same time you have to be open to the idea that things might not be perfect in the world. _-PJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eWords are hard. Saying “In my experience…” or “In my expertise, that doesn’t look right”, which is different than saying “That’s wrong.”\u003c/em\u003e -Rachel Happe \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e_It’s the gentle way to continue a conversation! The first is saying “Lead me to your way of thinking… help me understand” whereas “You’re wrong” ends the conversation. _-PJ Hagerty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eThe main difference I’ve seen between people who have a lot of followers and people who are influencers is that influencers are able to understand the power that their platform has and use that to engage people, to encourage conversations, to encourage diversity, to encourage greater thinking about issues.\u003c/em\u003e -Mary Thengvall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e_A big part of the value of these thought leaders and influencers that we haven’t touched on is not so much in the way they can move the outside world and the web that we’re all a part of… but there’s a huge source of value [for businesses] that comes from connecting with these thought leaders and influencers that can be derived from learning from them. _-Marshall Kirkpatrick\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e_I would suggest that there’s an opportunity there (when there’s a “flash” of influence that catapults someone onto a platform with many Twitter followers) to build a relationship. There may be a signal-to-noise ratio that you need to be cautious of – perhaps only 1/10 of those people will be able to sustain the platform – but early access and development of a relationship, especially with someone that you like, who winds up growing into a position of thought leadership, means more time spent around their work and a more impactful relationship. _-Marshall Kirkpatrick\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eIn order to draw people to a community you need to figure out who influences them. If their top influencers aren’t also in the community, those individuals aren’t going to be aware of your new community, let alone interested in joining.\u003c/em\u003e -Rachel Happe\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMarshall\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://blog.sprinklr.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSprinklr blog\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://communityroundtable.com/community-manager-role/5-big-lessons-in-community-building-based-on-a-decade-of-experience/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e5 Big Lessons in Community Management Based on a Decade of Experience\u003c/a\u003e by Rachel Happe\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eRachel\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/goodblacknews\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGood Black News\u003c/a\u003e Twitter account\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/EffinBirds\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eEffin Birds\u003c/a\u003e Twitter account\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eState of Community Mgmt from Community Round Table - coming soon! In the meantime, check out the \u003ca href=\"https://communityroundtable.com/what-we-do/research/the-state-of-community-management/state-community-management-2018/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e2018 report\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/album/6pwdy6oQdwSQo8XOfpfAJJ\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThis Land\u003c/a\u003e from Gary Clark Jr\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.waveapps.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWave App\u003c/a\u003e for billing, invoicing and expense tracking - great alternative to Quickbooks\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://ti.to/devops-days-buffalo-2019/dodBFLO2019\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevOps Days Buffalo\u003c/a\u003e, Sept 26-27\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2DB28ci\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHow to Not Always be Working\u003c/a\u003e by Marlee Grace - an interactive book that helps set priorities, reclaim work/life balance, and prevent burnout\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.maximumfun.org/shows/adventure-zone\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Adventure Zone podcast\u003c/a\u003e - for D\u0026amp;D fans… and those who enjoy good storytelling\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Marshall Kirkpatrick and Rachel Happe.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Part of building and participating in a community is the influence we have on others. With the advent of social media and more personal interactions, people have risen to levels heretofore unexpected. Influencers help to sway the activities of a community and stars arise that influence at the highest level.\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eRachel Happe (Co-founder of The Community Roundtable) and Marshall Kirkpatrick (Vice President, Influencer Relations, Analyst Relations, and Competitive Intelligence at Sprinklr) join Mary \u0026 PJ to talk about the difference between influence and popularity, and what it means to be an influencer.","date_published":"2019-05-07T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/72f0ddc7-0283-440f-b1e2-2813c31b02e8.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":89082020,"duration_in_seconds":2770}]},{"id":"18628cab52074249a6c701a09b2d20de","title":"After Pulse: Technical? Or Tech-Savvy?","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/34ap","content_text":"Enjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary, Jason, and PJ chat about what \"technical\" means in the DevRel industry and how job titles shape our roles after recording Episode 34. As the Developer Relations industry grows up, this is a question we'll be facing more and more often as we struggle to define who is qualified to build relationships with a technical audience.","date_published":"2019-04-18T14:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/82129a7e-521a-49c7-9915-3a6c1353c439.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":45676141,"duration_in_seconds":1413}]},{"id":"783757b4878c43909ed2cf85f010e927","title":"Technical? Or Tech-Savvy? - what's actually required to be a developer relations professional? (Ep 34)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/34-technical-tech-savvy","content_text":"Checkouts\nMatty\n\n\nNoti.st - For sharing slides \u0026amp; speaking stuff. See Matty’s speaking page.\nDevOpsDays Chicago is coming in August! The CFP is open and we have various sponsorships available.\nCAPTAIN MARVEL WAS F'ING AMAZING\nMatty’s Pro Tip for Karaoke Ignite - Go into it with a pre-conceived story. Everything will magically fall into place.\n\n\nKarissa\n\n\n+1 for Captain Marvel!\nBackstage Caital launched an Accelerator program for underrepresented founders in local programs around the world.\n\n\nMary\n\n\n+1 for Noti.st! See Mary’s speaking page.\nDeveloper Marketing: The Essential Guide - Chapter 3 in particular. Mary’s tweet thread with quotes\n404: Interactive Puzzle Book - Kickstarter for all of the puzzle geeks out there; pre-order now!\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nScribit - interactive wall art\nHey You Podcast\n\n\nJason\n\n\nMicrosoft “Create” - Global Startup event (April - June, 2019) - 12 cities around the world\nBadass - Making Users Awesome - Kathy Sierra\nThe Five Dysfunctions of a Team (a leadership fable) - Patrick Lencioni\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Karissa Peth and Matty Stratton.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMatty\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://noti.st/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNoti.st\u003c/a\u003e - For sharing slides \u0026amp; speaking stuff. See Matty’s speaking page.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.devopsdays.org/events/2019-chicago/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevOpsDays Chicago\u003c/a\u003e is coming in August! The CFP is open and we have various sponsorships available.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCAPTAIN MARVEL WAS F\u0026#39;ING AMAZING\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMatty’s Pro Tip for Karaoke Ignite - Go into it with a pre-conceived story. Everything will magically fall into place.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eKarissa\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e+1 for Captain Marvel!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://backstagecapital.com/accelerator/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBackstage Caital\u003c/a\u003e launched an Accelerator program for underrepresented founders in local programs around the world.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e+1 for Noti.st! \u003ca href=\"https://noti.st/marythengvall/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSee Mary’s speaking page\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2TxLzD3\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDeveloper Marketing: The Essential Guide\u003c/a\u003e - Chapter 3 in particular. \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/mary_grace/status/1084601900303970304\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMary’s tweet thread with quotes\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/drglm/404-interactive-puzzle-book\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e404: Interactive Puzzle Book\u003c/a\u003e - Kickstarter for all of the puzzle geeks out there; pre-order now!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1864378255/scribit-turn-your-wall-into-an-interactive-canvas/comments\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eScribit\u003c/a\u003e - interactive wall art\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://heyyou.libsyn.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHey You Podcast\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.createstartups.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMicrosoft “Create”\u003c/a\u003e - Global Startup event (April - June, 2019) - 12 cities around the world\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2HNDt8b\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBadass - Making Users Awesome\u003c/a\u003e - Kathy Sierra\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2YtUedl\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Five Dysfunctions of a Team (a leadership fable)\u003c/a\u003e - Patrick Lencioni\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Karissa Peth and Matty Stratton.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"As Developer Relations becomes more mainstream, the understanding of what makes someone qualified to be a Developer Relations professional is getting cloudy. Do you have to have a technical background? And if so, does that mean that you’ve held a “Software Engineer” title? Or simply that you’ve taken the time to understand the technical pieces of your product? Jason, Mary, and PJ are joined by Karissa Peth, Sr. Developer Relations Program Manager at Microsoft, and Matty Stratton, DevOps Advocate at PagerDuty, as they dig into the nuances of the various Developer Relations career paths.","date_published":"2019-03-26T13:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/8ee9c44b-e4de-46d5-81b1-334cfc30ef70.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":90603871,"duration_in_seconds":2817}]},{"id":"114048170a04417aad3a22681e7106a5","title":"After Pulse: Lessons Learned From Organizing Tech Events","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/33ap","content_text":"Jason, Mary, and PJ sync up after Episode 33 to discuss event management, creating new events, and where event organization fits into community management as a whole.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eJason, Mary, and PJ sync up after Episode 33 to discuss event management, creating new events, and where event organization fits into community management as a whole.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason, Mary, and PJ sync up after Episode 33 to discuss event management, creating new events, and where event organization fits into community management as a whole.","date_published":"2019-03-12T12:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/207880c0-0e40-4e24-97be-0de8828a9e3b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":28987736,"duration_in_seconds":892}]},{"id":"65c2005aa9204f3a8589f4dc515f96e7","title":"Lessons Learned while Organizing Tech Events (Ep 33)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/33-event-organization","content_text":"Checkouts\nJason\n\n\nTime Shifter (iPhone app)\n2 more days for .dev TLD hand.dev - $125 + $360/year\n\n\nQuintessence\n\n\nDevOps Days Buffalo - Sep 26-27, 2019\nHops n Ops Boston - Mar 13th, 2019\n\n\nAaron\n\n\nThe Elasticast\n\n\nMary\n\n\nLessons Learned While Running A First-Year Conference blogposts:\n Part 1 - How to Strip Down your Conference to an MVP\n Part 2 - Setting Boundaries\n Part 3 - Be Flexible \u0026amp; Willing To Iterate\nBose QC35II Noise Canceling Headphones\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nCombine.fm for sharing music - cool tool to aggregate Spotify, Youtube, Apple Music, Deezer, Google Play and more! By @kudos\nAlexisonfire - new single (possible new album soon) Familiar Drugs\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Aaron Aldrich and Quintessence Anx.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.timeshifter.timeshifter\u0026hl=en_US\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTime Shifter\u003c/a\u003e (iPhone app)\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e2 more days for \u003ca href=\"http://hand.dev/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e.dev TLD hand.dev\u003c/a\u003e - $125 + $360/year\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eQuintessence\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.devopsdays.org/events/2019-buffalo/welcome/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevOps Days Buffalo\u003c/a\u003e - Sep 26-27, 2019\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://go.threatstack.com/hops-n-ops-meetup.html\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHops n Ops Boston\u003c/a\u003e - Mar 13th, 2019\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAaron\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://theelasticast.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Elasticast\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eLessons Learned While Running A First-Year Conference blogposts:\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.marythengvall.com/blog/2019/1/25/redeploy-retrospective-lessons-volunteer-run-conference\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePart 1\u003c/a\u003e - How to Strip Down your Conference to an MVP\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.marythengvall.com/blog/2019/2/14/lessons-learned-while-running-a-first-year-conference-part-2-setting-boundaries\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePart 2\u003c/a\u003e - Setting Boundaries\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.marythengvall.com/blog/2019/3/3/lessons-learned-while-running-a-first-year-conference-part-3-be-flexible-willing-to-iterate\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePart 3\u003c/a\u003e - Be Flexible \u0026amp; Willing To Iterate\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2XSPVIg\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBose QC35II Noise Canceling Headphones\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCombine.fm\u003c/a\u003e for sharing music - cool tool to aggregate Spotify, Youtube, Apple Music, Deezer, Google Play and more! By @kudos\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/album/6Cvt8vsgpxQ5DRG0nqW25B\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAlexisonfire\u003c/a\u003e - new single (possible new album soon) Familiar Drugs\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Aaron Aldrich and Quintessence Anx.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In this episode, our hosts are joined by Aaron Aldrich and Quintessence Anx, both of whom are Developer Advocates who also have experience organizing community events. Together, they discuss the challenges, lessons learned, and tips for organizing events for a technical audience","date_published":"2019-03-12T00:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/0da8fad4-67d8-46dc-9dc1-14208d04b95b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":90746383,"duration_in_seconds":2822}]},{"id":"50567dd00e2545538985933639c5f223","title":"After Pulse: Big Company, Little Company","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/32ap","content_text":"Sponsored by:\n\nIBM Developer\nAre you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers? IBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub. You can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003ch3\u003eSponsored by:\u003c/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://developer.ibm.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eIBM Developer\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nAre you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers? IBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub. You can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason \u0026 PJ sync up after our latest episode to chat about their personal experiences with DevRel at big companies versus smaller companies. From delays due to colleagues based around the world to the simple pleasure of a large team to kick ideas around with, as always there are pros and cons to every scenario.","date_published":"2019-02-04T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/475c91de-823a-4cd7-b910-b1ff4e7d85fb.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":37485815,"duration_in_seconds":1157}]},{"id":"f382aee560b14863a7bb9a4b916ce5c8","title":"Big Company, Little Company - the differences in DevRel at large \u0026 small companies (Ep 32)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/32-bigco-littleco","content_text":"Checkouts\nJason\n\n\nTribes: We Need You to Lead Us by Seth Godin\nThe Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters by Priya Parker\n\n\nMatt\n\n\nDevRel is company-specific. Every company has different needs and different expecations. Discover what your company needs and then find others who are in similar places so that you have people to watch and learn from.\n\n\nNathen\n\n\nTrapeze School New York\nBe in awe of the work others do, regardless of what that work is.\n\n\nMaureen\n\n\nGlobal Diversity CFP Day\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nGmorning, Gnight!: Little Pep Talks for Me \u0026amp; You by Lin-Manuel Miranda\nSandusky - original music from PJ, recorded at CodeMash in Ohio\n\n\nSponsored by:\n\nIBM Developer\nAre you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers? IBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub. You can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Matt Asay, Maureen McElaney, and Nathen Harvey.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2RYWs4f\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTribes: We Need You to Lead Us\u003c/a\u003e by Seth Godin\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2S5wAUf\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters\u003c/a\u003e by Priya Parker\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMatt\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRel is company-specific. Every company has different needs and different expecations. Discover what your company needs and then find others who are in similar places so that you have people to watch and learn from.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNathen\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://washingtondc.trapezeschool.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTrapeze School New York\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eBe in awe of the work others do, regardless of what that work is.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMaureen\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.globaldiversitycfpday.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGlobal Diversity CFP Day\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2TaMTMS\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGmorning, Gnight!: Little Pep Talks for Me \u0026amp; You\u003c/a\u003e by Lin-Manuel Miranda\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/single-serving-friends/sandusky\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSandusky\u003c/a\u003e - original music from PJ, recorded at CodeMash in Ohio\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003ch3\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSponsored by:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://developer.ibm.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eIBM Developer\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nAre you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers? IBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub. You can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Matt Asay, Maureen McElaney, and Nathen Harvey.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In this episode, our hosts discuss the similarities and differences of working in developer relations and advocacy in large organizations compared to small ones (or startups). Joining us in the conversation is Nathen Harvey of Google, Maureen McElaney from IBM, and Matt Asay from Adobe.","date_published":"2019-01-23T14:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/2632f350-54cf-40e4-9ca1-6fb436682216.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":94693160,"duration_in_seconds":2945}]},{"id":"edb56936cc794d1c89c96cce4a7ceb1e","title":"2018 Wrap-Up (Ep 31)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/31-2018wrapup","content_text":"Checkouts\nPJ\n\n\nFireFox has redeemed itself recently. With better performance it may go back to being my default browser over the security-flawed and processor-heavy Chrome.\nSomething Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury\n\n\nMary\n\n\nThe ONE Thing by Gary Keller \u0026amp; Jay Papasan\nStart: Punch Fear in the Face, Escape Average, and Do Work That Matters by Jon Acuff\nBecoming by Michelle Obama – she narrates the audiobook version\n\n\nJason\n\n\nAttack of the 50 Foot Blockchain by David Gerard\nHeadspace App\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eFireFox has redeemed itself recently. With better performance it may go back to being my default browser over the security-flawed and processor-heavy Chrome.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2R5s08a\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSomething Wicked This Way Comes\u003c/a\u003e by Ray Bradbury\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2R9SJQP\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe ONE Thing\u003c/a\u003e by Gary Keller \u0026amp; Jay Papasan\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2BxLRTB\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eStart: Punch Fear in the Face, Escape Average, and Do Work That Matters\u003c/a\u003e by Jon Acuff\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Becoming/dp/B07B3JQZCL/ref=sr_1_1_twi_audd_3?s=books\u0026ie=UTF8\u0026qid=1545266513\u0026sr=1-1\u0026keywords=becoming+michelle+obama\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBecoming\u003c/a\u003e by Michelle Obama – she narrates the audiobook version\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://amzn.to/2LqgUoW\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAttack of the 50 Foot Blockchain\u003c/a\u003e by David Gerard\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.headspace.com/headspace-meditation-app\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHeadspace App\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary, PJ, and Jason gather to chat about 2018: the rewards as well as the struggles. Per usual, there are tangents galore from the hosts you've come to love along with observations about how DevRel has come and what we might see in the future.","date_published":"2018-12-19T16:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/403bb9d1-b0f3-4053-bff3-2d9c50e99cc4.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":75624542,"duration_in_seconds":2349}]},{"id":"982e02d237084c1f942a5d66a0a5e895","title":"Twitter: Friend or Foe (Ep 30)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/30-twitter","content_text":"Checkouts\nJason\n\n\nScreencast \u0026amp; video tutorial softwares:\nScreenFlow 8\nTerminalizer\n\n\nEmily\n\n\nBraving the Wilderness by Brene Brown\nPod Save America\nEmily’s famous biscuit recipe\n\n\nHarper\n\n\nProxmox - powerful open-source server solutions\nmobile shell (mosh) shortcut - listen to the episode for instructions!\nN.K. Jemisin’s Broken Earth series\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nBeastie Boys Book\nRenderforest - intro videos \n\n\nSponsored by IBM Developer: IBM Sponsorship: Are you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers?   IBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub.   You can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.   Find us on Twitter at @IBMDeveloper\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Emily Freeman and Harper Reed.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eScreencast \u0026amp; video tutorial softwares:\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.telestream.net/screenflow/overview.htm#overview\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eScreenFlow 8\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://terminalizer.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eTerminalizer\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eEmily\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Braving-Wilderness-Quest-Belonging-Courage/dp/0812995848\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBraving the Wilderness\u003c/a\u003e by Brene Brown\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://art19.com/shows/pod-save-america\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePod Save America\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://emilyfreeman.io/blog/biscuits\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eEmily’s famous biscuit recipe\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eHarper\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.proxmox.com/en/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eProxmox\u003c/a\u003e - powerful open-source server solutions\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003emobile shell (mosh) shortcut - listen to the episode for instructions!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/gp/bookseries/B01947LZ8A/ref=dp_st_0316229296\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eN.K. Jemisin’s Broken Earth series\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Beastie-Boys-Book-Michael-Diamond/dp/0812995546\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBeastie Boys Book\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.renderforest.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eRenderforest\u003c/a\u003e - intro videos \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSponsored by IBM Developer:\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eIBM Sponsorship:\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eAre you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers?\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eIBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub.\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eYou can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eFind us on Twitter at @IBMDeveloper\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Emily Freeman and Harper Reed.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn...these are all major parts of what we use everyday to stay in touch with the communities we are involved in, personally and professionally. What happens though when those lines blur? When something you say from your personal life gets picked up by people involved in your professional life? Is it all worthwhile? Jason and PJ sit down with Emily Freeman and Harper Reed to discuss the pros, the cons, and few side tracks along the way.","date_published":"2018-11-30T11:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/d3089373-98cb-49df-a436-9d9f644d0954.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":93172181,"duration_in_seconds":2897}]},{"id":"8bb4e651fcec4a3ca5871bf44f55f518","title":"After Pulse: Codes of Conduct","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/29ap","content_text":"Mary and PJ join Jason to sync up on the recent episode that he hosted about Codes of Conduct. We cover a lot of ground: from the purpose that Codes of Conduct serve, to the fact that we agree to these standards in day-to-day life without realizing it, to the recent news stories about CoCs.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eMary and PJ join Jason to sync up on the recent episode that he hosted about Codes of Conduct. We cover a lot of ground: from the purpose that Codes of Conduct serve, to the fact that we agree to these standards in day-to-day life without realizing it, to the recent news stories about CoCs.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary and PJ join Jason to sync up on the recent episode that he hosted about Codes of Conduct. We cover a lot of ground: from the purpose that Codes of Conduct serve, to the fact that we agree to these standards in day-to-day life without realizing it, to the recent news stories about CoCs.","date_published":"2018-11-15T20:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/2c6d3ed7-4bbf-48a2-9050-8c06ca24bfde.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":70795495,"duration_in_seconds":2198}]},{"id":"6eec0326829340898fe2c6589d20818f","title":"Codes of Conduct (Ep 29)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/29-codesofconduct","content_text":"Checkouts\nTessa\n\n\nEvent - APICity.io\n\n\nJustin\n\n\nEvent - Abstractions.io\nVoting/Polling location\n\n\nCarina\n\n\nBook - “How Can It Be Gluten Free Cookbook”\n\n\nJason\n\n\nCodes of Conduct 101 FAQ\nGeek Feminism Code of Conduct\nGitHub Project CoC\nGoals of a Code of Conduct (From Microsoft’s Cloud Developer Advocacy team)\n    To specify a baseline standard of behavior so that people with different social values and communication styles can communicate effectively, productively, and respectfully\n    To provide a mechanism for resolving conflicts when they arise.\n     To make our team welcoming to people from different backgrounds. Diversity is critical; for us to be successful, many different perspectives and backgrounds are necessary._\n_\n Special thanks to our sponsor, IBM. Are you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers? IBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub. You can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Justin Reese and Tessa Mero.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nTessa\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eEvent - \u003ca href=\"https://apicity.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAPICity.io\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJustin\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eEvent - \u003ca href=\"https://abstractions.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAbstractions.io\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.vote.org/polling-place-locator/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eVoting/Polling location\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eCarina\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eBook - \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Gluten-Free-Cookbook-Revolutionary-Groundbreaking/dp/1936493616/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8\u0026qid=1540327536\u0026sr=8-1\u0026keywords=how+can+it+be+gluten+free+cookbook\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e“How Can It Be Gluten Free Cookbook”\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.ashedryden.com/blog/codes-of-conduct-101-faq\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCodes of Conduct 101 FAQ\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://geekfeminism.org/about/code-of-conduct/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGeek Feminism Code of Conduct\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://opensource.guide/code-of-conduct/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGitHub Project CoC\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003cem\u003eGoals of a Code of Conduct (From Microsoft’s Cloud Developer Advocacy team)\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e    To specify a baseline standard of behavior so that people with different social values and communication styles can communicate effectively, productively, and respectfully\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e    To provide a mechanism for resolving conflicts when they arise.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e     To make our team welcoming to people from different backgrounds. Diversity is critical; for us to be successful, many different perspectives and backgrounds are necessary._\n_\n\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eSpecial thanks to our sponsor, IBM. Are you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers? IBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub. You can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Justin Reese and Tessa Mero.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason flies solo on a great discussion of Codes of Conduct for events. We've brought in Carina C. Zona (CallBackWomen), Justin Reese (Code \u0026 Supply), and Tessa Mero (Cisco) to talk what works, what doesn't, and what happens when the CoC isn't followed.","date_published":"2018-10-23T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/79f1cc11-8e5a-4bd9-ae98-abf8f14d248d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":87702739,"duration_in_seconds":2727}]},{"id":"4c9df87e8ec0409781dc9751e7caddfe","title":"Relationships IRL (Ep 28)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/28-relationships-irl","content_text":"Checkouts:\nMary\n\n\nNotion\n\n\nJason\n\n\nLet him know what your checkouts are or Twitter\nInsta360 One\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nPJ is committing to have an album out by the end of the year. Stay tuned (pun fully intended)!\nJolt Cola has returned to stores! “All the sugar and twice the caffeine.”\n\n\n Special thanks to our sponsor, IBM. Are you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers? IBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub. You can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts\u003c/strong\u003e:\u003cbr\u003e\nMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.notion.so/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNotion\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eLet him know what your checkouts are\u003cimg src=\"https://www.communitypulse.io/28-relationships-irl/jason@communitypulse.io\" alt=\" jason@communitypulse.io\"\u003e or Twitter\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.insta360.com/product/insta360-one/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eInsta360 One\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003ePJ is committing to have an album out by the end of the year. Stay tuned (pun fully intended)!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.joltcola.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJolt Cola\u003c/a\u003e has returned to stores! “All the sugar and twice the caffeine.”\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eSpecial thanks to our sponsor, IBM. Are you building cloud applications with Java, AI, Machine Learning, Serverless and Containers? IBM Developer provides a large number of Code Patterns, sample applications, articles, tutorials and videos to help you build faster. All code is available on GitHub. You can incorporate any code into existing applications or use it to start a new application. Simply go to developer.ibm.com to access IBM Developer resources and start building.\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary opens up to PJ and Jason about struggles to create an in-person personal community when we're so often on the road. Even we extroverts need some downtime from the tech community and a chance to connect with friends, but how do we go about creating deep friendships when we aren't home to invest in them?","date_published":"2018-10-05T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/21bdc4e4-3bc2-4fd2-8f9e-aeafbe51613c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":71344655,"duration_in_seconds":2215}]},{"id":"6e79e8a97bc645b18e03a5b8382a9121","title":"After Pulse: Content is Key ","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/27ap","content_text":"Mary, Jason, and PJ get together after the episode to talk content, Mary's upcoming book, and some of the hurdles they've seen to getting content out there.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eMary, Jason, and PJ get together after the episode to talk content, Mary's upcoming book, and some of the hurdles they've seen to getting content out there.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Mary, Jason, and PJ get together after the episode to talk content, Mary's upcoming book, and some of the hurdles they've seen to getting content out there.","date_published":"2018-08-24T12:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/37e92cab-6870-4817-9595-ece057fe10b2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":32522309,"duration_in_seconds":987}]},{"id":"384115f1290747f58bee033725b6317e","title":"Content is Key! - technical writing for the unprepared (Ep 27)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/27-content-is-key","content_text":"Checkouts:\nLorna\n\n\nNexmo.com\nThe Paper Menagerie\n\n\nMary\n\n\nWorld of Dance - Season 2\nAmazon Smile\nDaniele Procida - Documentation Remix\n\n\nJason\n\n\nYou Are A Badass: How To Stop Doubting Your Greatness \u0026amp; Start Living An Awesome Life\nUnfuckology : A Field Guide To Living With Guts And Confidence\nHit Refresh - The Quest to Rediscover Microsoft’s Soul and Imagine a Better Future For Everyone\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nAdmissions Conf\nCodeDaze vol 2\nCodePilot.ai\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Lorna Jane Mitchell.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nLorna\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://nexmo.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNexmo.com\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TBKYK60/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8\u0026btkr=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Paper Menagerie\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.nbc.com/world-of-dance/episodes\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eWorld of Dance - Season 2\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://smile.amazon.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAmazon Smile\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azf6yzuJt54\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDaniele Procida - Documentation Remix\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3M3VWS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8\u0026btkr=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eYou Are A Badass: How To Stop Doubting Your Greatness \u0026amp; Start Living An Awesome Life\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Unf-ckology-Field-Living-Confidence-ebook/dp/B073NZGQST/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8\u0026qid=1534948434\u0026sr=8-1\u0026keywords=Unfuckology+%3A+A+Field+Guide+To+Living+With+Guts+And+Confidence\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eUnfuckology : A Field Guide To Living With Guts And Confidence\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HOT5SQA/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8\u0026btkr=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eHit Refresh - The Quest to Rediscover Microsoft’s Soul and Imagine a Better Future For Everyone\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://2018.admissionconf.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAdmissions Conf\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://codedaze.me/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCodeDaze vol 2\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://get.codepilot.ai/?utm_expid=.JTMJUbvZRgKoO6-xwEiEaA.2\u0026utm_referrer=\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCodePilot.ai\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Lorna Jane Mitchell.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"One important part of the Dev Advocate lifestyle is content creation, which can range from penning the perfect tweet to blog posts to docs and tutorials. Content matters when it comes to interacting with the Community. In this episode, we talk with Lorna Jane Mitchell about content creation and the process of working with folks who are not content creators to make the best of your project or community’s written record.","date_published":"2018-08-21T13:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/9f45c3d2-96f6-4a6d-b1f4-075b8e6d5832.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":77908177,"duration_in_seconds":2391}]},{"id":"f7a6c392726c4884938c5250608c9533","title":"Funemployment \u0026 Downtime (Ep 26)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/26-funemployment-downtime","content_text":"Checkouts:\nPJ\n\n\nThe Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory\nCoheed And Cambria - Unearthly Creatures album\n\n\nJason\n\n\nThe Art of Happiness\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001P7GGRS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8\u0026btkr=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://store.coheedandcambria.com/music-1/the-unheavenly-colorway-exclusive-3-lp-set-digital-bundle.html\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCoheed And Cambria - Unearthly Creatures album\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UK6NO0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8\u0026btkr=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Art of Happiness\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"What happens when you step out of the office and take a break for a while? Whether vacation or funemployment, downtime is important. But how do we do this while continuing to be part of our communities? Jason \u0026 PJ chat about these topics \u0026 more.","date_published":"2018-08-03T11:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/4c7dea5c-be4e-43bf-b61c-1ff25da87e09.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":76304782,"duration_in_seconds":2331}]},{"id":"d7e351e137f44408acef4c8410ca4855","title":"After Pulse: Team Dynamics","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/25ap","content_text":"PJ, Jason, and Mary sync up after the podcast recording with J. Paul Reed and Greg Bulmash (Episode 25: Team Dynamics) to recap the episode and share a few more thoughts.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003ePJ, Jason, and Mary sync up after the podcast recording with J. Paul Reed and Greg Bulmash (Episode 25: Team Dynamics) to recap the episode and share a few more thoughts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"PJ, Jason, and Mary sync up after the podcast recording with J. Paul Reed and Greg Bulmash (Episode 25: Team Dynamics) to recap the episode and share a few more thoughts.","date_published":"2018-06-30T10:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/d5599512-a297-4e5f-983f-5835532a6ead.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":34645267,"duration_in_seconds":1054}]},{"id":"41cc5a86121c483cb1a8f79a8d11da9a","title":"Team Dynamics - your team,  other teams, and the company 'team' (Ep 25)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/25-team-dynamics","content_text":"Checkouts:\nMary\n\n\nNesting with Grace\nSetting priorities with the Yearning Hierarchy\nMary’s blogpost about setting priorities\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nCodeDaze.me - Sept 14-15, Buffalo, NY. A conference dedicated to code, design, development, and everything tech!\nThe Get Up Kids - Kicker\n\n\nJason\n\n\nDieCutStickers.com\nQuiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking - Susan Cain\n\n\nGreg\n\n\nCoderdojo\nCascadiaJS 2018\n\n\nPaul\n\n\nREdeploy - CFP closes June 15; conference is Aug 16-17 in San Francisco; Early Bird tickets are available now! We’ll be talking more about team dynamics \u0026amp; how to make a team (and individuals) resilient.\nNailed It - Netflix show\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Greg Bulmash and J. Paul Reed.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://nestingwithgrace.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNesting with Grace\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eSetting priorities with the \u003ca href=\"https://waitbutwhy.com/2018/04/picking-career.html\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eYearning Hierarchy\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMary’s blogpost about \u003ca href=\"https://medium.com/@mary_grace/reclaiming-my-life-one-priority-at-a-time-a216b240af3b\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003esetting priorities\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://codedaze.me/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCodeDaze.me\u003c/a\u003e - Sept 14-15, Buffalo, NY. A conference dedicated to code, design, development, and everything tech!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://combine.fm/spotify/album/15v53JBozKfIPcApXRruaJ\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Get Up Kids - Kicker\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://diecutstickers.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDieCutStickers.com\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352153\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eQuiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking\u003c/a\u003e - Susan Cain\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eGreg\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://zen.coderdojo.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCoderdojo\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://2018.cascadiajs.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCascadiaJS 2018\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePaul\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://re-deploy.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eREdeploy\u003c/a\u003e - CFP closes June 15; conference is Aug 16-17 in San Francisco; Early Bird tickets are available now! We’ll be talking more about team dynamics \u0026amp; how to make a team (and individuals) resilient.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/80179138\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNailed It \u003c/a\u003e- Netflix show\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Greg Bulmash and J. Paul Reed.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"PJ, Jason, and Mary sit down with J. Paul Reed (@jpreed) and Greg Bulmash (@yiddishninja) to chat about team dynamics, working between departments, and setting boundaries for your DevRel team.","date_published":"2018-06-14T10:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/98908ec0-a21e-47ae-b6e0-8de0b1d80cc2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":89204987,"duration_in_seconds":2733}]},{"id":"a454cf9b3c4a423db24eb0e7a6adbcb6","title":"After Pulse: Imposter Syndrome","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/24ap","content_text":"PJ, Jason, and Mary sync up after the podcast recording with Kelsey Hightower (Episode 24: Imposter Syndrome) to recap the episode and share a few more thoughts.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003ePJ, Jason, and Mary sync up after the podcast recording with Kelsey Hightower (Episode 24: Imposter Syndrome) to recap the episode and share a few more thoughts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"PJ, Jason, and Mary sync up after the podcast recording with Kelsey Hightower (Episode 24: Imposter Syndrome) to recap the episode and share a few more thoughts.","date_published":"2018-06-07T15:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/3186d998-eaa0-4323-91e4-b5b963bc4317.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":14282363,"duration_in_seconds":427}]},{"id":"6a774b0f6bad476dadff084e04b09323","title":"Imposter Syndrome (Ep 24)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/24-imposter-syndrome","content_text":"Checkouts:\nJason\n\n\nYou Need a Budget\nNerdWallet\n\n\nMary\n\n\n REdeployConf CFP is open through June 15, 2018\n Pre-order The Business Value of Developer Relations\n Thanks for the Feedback by Douglas Stone \u0026amp; Sheila Heen\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nReCollection: Recalling your Future by IoT advocate, developer, and now author Jim Hunter\nCodeDaze.me - Sept 14-15, Buffalo, NY. A conference dedicated to code, design, development, and everything tech!\n\n\nKelsey\n\n\nCheck out yourself! Keep an eye on yourself – how are you really doing? How are you feeling? What do you need to change, improve, work on? Do a self-evaluation but be kind.\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Kelsey Hightower.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.youneedabudget.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eYou Need a Budget\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.nerdwallet.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNerdWallet\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://re-deploy.io/cfp\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e REdeployConf CFP\u003c/a\u003e is open through June 15, 2018\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e Pre-order \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Business-Value-Developer-Relations-Communities/dp/1484237471\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Business Value of Developer Relations\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DMCV0XE/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8\u0026btkr=1\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThanks for the Feedback\u003c/a\u003e by Douglas Stone \u0026amp; Sheila Heen\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/ReCalling-Your-Future-ReCollection-Hunter-ebook/dp/B07CQ8Y534/ref=sr_1_1?s=books\u0026ie=UTF8\u0026qid=1528410678\u0026sr=1-1\u0026refinements=p_27%3AJim+Hunter\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eReCollection: Recalling your Future\u003c/a\u003e by IoT advocate, developer, and now author Jim Hunter\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://codedaze.me/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCodeDaze.me\u003c/a\u003e - Sept 14-15, Buffalo, NY. A conference dedicated to code, design, development, and everything tech!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eKelsey\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eCheck out yourself! Keep an eye on yourself – how are you really doing? How are you feeling? What do you need to change, improve, work on? Do a self-evaluation but be kind.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Kelsey Hightower.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"PJ, Jason, and Mary joined up with Kelsey Hightower from Google Cloud Platform to chat about imposter syndrome: - What is imposter syndrome? - Is it a \"thing\"? - How can we overcome imposter syndrome in ourselves? - How can we prevent imposter syndrome in others?","date_published":"2018-05-28T13:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/44fab667-5db5-449a-9602-3edfe1c5c0ea.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":98726290,"duration_in_seconds":3015}]},{"id":"c37e62cc9c6a845afc616b3177958640","title":"How to Submit the Best CFP of your Life (and what to do when it gets accepted) (Ep 23)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/23-cfps","content_text":"Buckle up and get your notebook ready -- this is an episode full of tips and tricks and good advice from an expert.\n\nConference season is fast approaching, but we all know that the true preparation starts months ahead when all of the CFPs open. In this episode of Community Pulse, Mary, PJ, and Jason sit down with VM (Vicky) Brasseur to chat about how to craft the best CFPs, navigating the land of limbo before you find out whether your talk has been accepted, and how to prepare the best talk once you've gotten your acceptance notice.\n\nLinks:\n\n\n Forge Your Future with Open Source by VM (Vicky) Brasseur\nSeaGL Code of Practice\nNode Summit Speaker Preparation\n20% off code for OSCON: VMB20\n\n\nCheckouts:\nJason\n\n\nArtistworks\nLukas Nelson \u0026amp; the Promise of the Real album\nDevopsdays Rockies - watch the livestream on April 17-18 or keep an eye out for the videos\n\n\nMary\n\n\nREdeployConf - Aug 16-17, San Francisco. A 360° view of resilient technology, organizations, and people. CFP opening soon!\nFootprints on the Moon - book by Seth Godin\n\n\nPJ\n\n\nCodeDaze.me - Sept 14-15, Buffalo, NY. A conference dedicated to code, design, development, and everything tech! CFP closes April 30th.\nJust saw a reunion tour for Buffalo emo band Copper under a new name: Gathering Ground\n\n\nVicky\n\n\nThe No Assholes Rule by Robert I. Sutton\nOpen Source: Introverts Together\n\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eBuckle up and get your notebook ready -- this is an episode full of tips and tricks and good advice from an expert.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eConference season is fast approaching, but we all know that the true preparation starts months ahead when all of the CFPs open. In this episode of Community Pulse, Mary, PJ, and Jason sit down with VM (Vicky) Brasseur to chat about how to craft the best CFPs, navigating the land of limbo before you find out whether your talk has been accepted, and how to prepare the best talk once you\u0026#39;ve gotten your acceptance notice.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://pragprog.com/book/vbopens/forge-your-future-with-open-source\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eForge Your Future with Open Source\u003c/a\u003e by VM (Vicky) Brasseur\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://seagl.org/news/2018/04/09/code_of_practice.html\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSeaGL Code of Practice\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://www.nodesummit.com/speakers/speaker-preparation/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNode Summit Speaker Preparation\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e20% off code for \u003ca href=\"https://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/oscon-or\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOSCON\u003c/a\u003e: VMB20\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheckouts:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nJason\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://artistworks.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eArtistworks\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://lukasnelson.com/album/lukas-nelson-promise-of-the-real\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLukas Nelson \u0026amp; the Promise of the Real\u003c/a\u003e album\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.devopsdays.org/events/2018-denver\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevopsdays Rockies\u003c/a\u003e - watch the livestream on April 17-18 or keep an eye out for the videos\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMary\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://re-deploy.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eREdeployConf\u003c/a\u003e - Aug 16-17, San Francisco. A 360° view of resilient technology, organizations, and people. CFP opening soon!\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35714723-footprints-on-the-moon\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFootprints on the Moon\u003c/a\u003e - book by Seth Godin\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePJ\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://codedaze.me/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCodeDaze.me\u003c/a\u003e - Sept 14-15, Buffalo, NY. A conference dedicated to code, design, development, and everything tech! CFP closes April 30th.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eJust saw a reunion tour for Buffalo emo band Copper under a new name: \u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/edwardmichael/sets/figure-it-out\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGathering Ground\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eVicky\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Asshole-Rule-Civilized-Workplace-Surviving/dp/1600245854\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe No Assholes Rule\u003c/a\u003e by Robert I. Sutton\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"http://introvertstogether.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOpen Source: Introverts Together\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"\u003cp\u003eConference season is fast approaching, but we all know that the true preparation starts months ahead when all of the CFPs open. In this episode of Community Pulse, Mary, PJ, and Jason sit down with VM (Vicky) Brasseur to chat about how to craft the best CFPs, navigating the land of limbo before you find out whether your talk has been accepted, and how to prepare the best talk once you've gotten your acceptance notice.","date_published":"2018-04-14T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/ccef74a5-0651-4622-a122-7c289e333cda.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":89388188,"duration_in_seconds":2740}]},{"id":"6f28225e55463b1cf8eba9aa4ce6d730","title":"Hiring a DevRel Team (Ep 22)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/22-hiring-devrel-team","content_text":"PJ and Jason sit down with Matt Broberg, VP of Community at Sensu and Jill Jubinski, Senior Manager of Tech Recruiting at Fastly to talk about hiring a Developer Relations team. From how to find the mythical creatures that form the right team to who your first hire should be and what recruiters screen for, you'll learn about the who, how, what, and when of pulling together a Developer Relations team from scratch.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Jill Wholner and Matthew Broberg.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003ePJ and Jason sit down with Matt Broberg, VP of Community at Sensu and Jill Jubinski, Senior Manager of Tech Recruiting at Fastly to talk about hiring a Developer Relations team. From how to find the mythical creatures that form the right team to who your first hire should be and what recruiters screen for, you'll learn about the who, how, what, and when of pulling together a Developer Relations team from scratch.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Jill Wholner and Matthew Broberg.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"The Who, How, What, and When","date_published":"2018-03-10T19:45:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/946a7077-e061-4a09-9c73-955627b2e6d9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":81502817,"duration_in_seconds":2484}]},{"id":"6dc8ddfcacddbb3da2e082cb7b0faccb","title":"Breaking into DevRel (Ep 21)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/21-breaking-into-devrel","content_text":"Defining Developer Relations is a difficult thing to do. So how do you know what to expect when you transition into Community \u0026amp; DevRel? This month, PJ and Mary chat with Emily Freeman and Chloe Condon about how their initial experience has been and what they'd do differently if they had a choice.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Chloe Condon and Emily Freeman.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eDefining Developer Relations is a difficult thing to do. So how do you know what to expect when you transition into Community \u0026 DevRel? This month, PJ and Mary chat with Emily Freeman and Chloe Condon about how their initial experience has been and what they'd do differently if they had a choice.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Chloe Condon and Emily Freeman.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"What is Developer Relations, Anyway?","date_published":"2018-02-09T17:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/3200ca75-fa0c-4ddd-a9a0-42b832c6e7d1.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":82366724,"duration_in_seconds":2513}]},{"id":"7aa794d6fd7f3610ebdb54f262497d41","title":"Meetups (Ep 20)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/20-meetups","content_text":"Mary, Jason, and PJ get together to kick off 2018 with a chat about meetups! What makes a great meetup? Are branded meetups valuable? Let's find out! Links for this episode: The Community Pulse Podcast - https://apple.co/2Dqay7r Making Work Visible - http://amzn.to/2wukkPn CloudCraft - https://cloudcraft.co Halt and Catch Fire - http://www.amc.com/shows/halt-and-catch-fire Urban Ears - https://www.urbanears.com Code and Talk - https://codeandtalk.com Reply All Podcast - https://gimletmedia.com/reply-all Crimetown Podcast - https://gimletmedia.com/crimetown\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eMary, Jason, and PJ get together to kick off 2018 with a chat about meetups! What makes a great meetup? Are branded meetups valuable? Let's find out!\u003c/p\u003e \u003cp\u003eLinks for this episode: The Community Pulse Podcast - https://apple.co/2Dqay7r Making Work Visible - http://amzn.to/2wukkPn CloudCraft - https://cloudcraft.co Halt and Catch Fire - http://www.amc.com/shows/halt-and-catch-fire Urban Ears - https://www.urbanears.com Code and Talk - https://codeandtalk.com Reply All Podcast - https://gimletmedia.com/reply-all Crimetown Podcast - https://gimletmedia.com/crimetown\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"What makes them great, should a company host a meetup, and more.","date_published":"2018-01-22T16:45:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/74cbc7a4-756a-436d-9849-c8b1ae33afda.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":54644224,"duration_in_seconds":1667}]},{"id":"d657e5fb287fb799d83588bbee767959","title":"2017 In Review (Ep 19)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/19-2017review","content_text":"Jason, Mary, and PJ do an end of year wrap-up on the highs, lows, and day-to-day of 2017. We talk about the tough parts of being in DevRel, the importance of diversity, and other topics we've seen this year.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eJason, Mary, and PJ do an end of year wrap-up on the highs, lows, and day-to-day of 2017. We talk about the tough parts of being in DevRel, the importance of diversity, and other topics we've seen this year.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason, Mary, and PJ do an end of year wrap-up on the highs, lows, and day-to-day of 2017. We talk about the tough parts of being in DevRel, the importance of diversity, and other topics we've seen this year.","date_published":"2017-12-14T22:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/9a1fd914-2a01-4152-aa49-829020ed77f6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":109530027,"duration_in_seconds":3349}]},{"id":"70fd6698f4bd6f65992eb797ee9f1a7d","title":"Justin Reese at Uptime Conf (Ep 18)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/18-justin-reese","content_text":"Episode 18 finds Jason and PJ in Pittsburgh at Uptime Conf! We took the opportunity to sit down with Community Organizer and Pittsburgh Advocate, Justin Reese.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Justin Reese.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eEpisode 18 finds Jason and PJ in Pittsburgh at Uptime Conf! We took the opportunity to sit down with Community Organizer and Pittsburgh Advocate, Justin Reese.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Justin Reese.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Episode 18 finds Jason and PJ in Pittsburgh at Uptime Conf! We took the opportunity to sit down with Community Organizer and Pittsburgh Advocate, Justin Reese.","date_published":"2017-08-29T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/0c21daf3-3f8d-4ba9-a565-31737ec49fdd.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":51232384,"duration_in_seconds":1578}]},{"id":"123f21f5f1b62110ace5712f5fe6fdf1","title":"Anil Dash: The Importance of Interaction (Ep 17)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/17-anil-dash","content_text":"In this episode, Mary, Jason, and PJ sit down with the illustrious Anil Dash of Fog Creek Software to discuss interactions with people, why DevRel is so important yet misunderstood, and Anil's cool new project, Glitch.com.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIn this episode, Mary, Jason, and PJ sit down with the illustrious Anil Dash of Fog Creek Software to discuss interactions with people, why DevRel is so important yet misunderstood, and Anil's cool new project, Glitch.com.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In this episode, Mary, Jason, and PJ sit down with the illustrious Anil Dash of Fog Creek Software to discuss interactions with people, why DevRel is so important yet misunderstood, and Anil's cool new project, Glitch.com.","date_published":"2017-06-12T13:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/33c2254a-cf1d-43dd-b035-9e58d4e18ade.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":139267484,"duration_in_seconds":4249}]},{"id":"269fff114c767f668b0ad516acd85458","title":"DevOpsDays and Beyond (Ep 16)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/16-devopsdays","content_text":"After all 3 hosts being in the same physical place at the same time, Mary, Jason, and PJ come together to recap DevOpsDays, talk about different communities, and chat about all the things we're thinking.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eAfter all 3 hosts being in the same physical place at the same time, Mary, Jason, and PJ come together to recap DevOpsDays, talk about different communities, and chat about all the things we're thinking.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"After all 3 hosts being in the same physical place at the same time, Mary, Jason, and PJ come together to recap DevOpsDays, talk about different communities, and chat about all the things we're thinking.","date_published":"2017-04-20T10:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/038f16eb-ab56-46f2-bd11-a3eb2b361e49.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":84087211,"duration_in_seconds":2561}]},{"id":"1e240758706235a8539df9f500183c9c","title":"Ignite'ing Your Community (Ep 15)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/15-ignite","content_text":"While none of our guests for this episode have \"Community Manager\" in their title, these folks know a lot about building local communities. Jason and Mary chat with some of the top people behind Ignite Talks (ignitetalks.io) about building communities, drawing people together, and how to know when your plans need to pivot.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests:  Ignite, Brady Forrest, Bryan Zug, and Megan Groves.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eWhile none of our guests for this episode have \"Community Manager\" in their title, these folks know a lot about building local communities. Jason and Mary chat with some of the top people behind Ignite Talks (ignitetalks.io) about building communities, drawing people together, and how to know when your plans need to pivot.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests:  Ignite, Brady Forrest, Bryan Zug, and Megan Groves.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"While none of our guests for this episode have \"Community Manager\" in their title, these folks know a lot about building local communities. Jason and Mary chat with some of the top people behind Ignite Talks (ignitetalks.io) about building...","date_published":"2017-03-20T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/72375c87-7353-48a7-8eae-6a80d1886923.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":78449019,"duration_in_seconds":2400}]},{"id":"79c8d2c02d4e07b65f1fd8d5c093766e","title":"Let's Start at the Very Beginning (Ep 14)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/14-beginning","content_text":"Jason, Mary, and PJ sit down with Kim Bannerman (@kmbannerman) and Eamon Leonard (@eamonleonard) about how to start a community. We meander down that topic while exploring the rabbit holes of burnout, dealing with difficult community members, who actually makes up a community, what separates a leader from a participant, and more.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Eamon Leonard and Kim Bannerman.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eJason, Mary, and PJ sit down with Kim Bannerman (@kmbannerman) and Eamon Leonard (@eamonleonard) about how to start a community. We meander down that topic while exploring the rabbit holes of burnout, dealing with difficult community members, who actually makes up a community, what separates a leader from a participant, and more.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Eamon Leonard and Kim Bannerman.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"How to Launch a Community","date_published":"2017-02-13T13:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/98589ac2-92f4-4683-a28a-7f54804b8dce.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":101146898,"duration_in_seconds":3094}]},{"id":"9c5b24277421bcbce62f4cdfc4c0d5db","title":"New Year, New Plan (Ep 13)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/13-new-year-new-plan","content_text":"Ken Mugrage and Matt Broberg join Mary, Jason, and PJ to discuss metrics, divining the future from the past, and Jason's odd love of Fuller House!\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Ken Mugrage and Matthew Broberg.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eKen Mugrage and Matt Broberg join Mary, Jason, and PJ to discuss metrics, divining the future from the past, and Jason's odd love of Fuller House!\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Ken Mugrage and Matthew Broberg.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Developer Relations Retrospectives","date_published":"2017-01-13T09:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/bc1d4a07-c067-472e-899b-5e22605db18b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":87149287,"duration_in_seconds":2657}]},{"id":"8c3abcc1b74b0ea0080e37c2d6d3e87e","title":"Same Job, New City (Ep 12)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/12-same-job-new-city","content_text":" \u0026lt;p id=\"eow-description\" class=\"\"\u0026gt;Mary and PJ get together with Jason Yee (@gitbisect), Davey Shafik (@dshafik), and David Blank-Edelman (@otterbook) to talk travel tips, packing ideas, and what you can't live without on a plane!\u0026lt;/p\u0026gt;     \n\n     **Enjoy the podcast?**\n\n\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests:  David Blank-Edelman, Davey Shafik, and Jason Yee.","content_html":"\u003cpre\u003e\u003ccode\u003e \u0026lt;p id=\u0026quot;eow-description\u0026quot; class=\u0026quot;\u0026quot;\u0026gt;Mary and PJ get together with Jason Yee (@gitbisect), Davey Shafik (@dshafik), and David Blank-Edelman (@otterbook) to talk travel tips, packing ideas, and what you can\u0026#39;t live without on a plane!\u0026lt;/p\u0026gt;     \n\n     **Enjoy the podcast?**\n\u003c/code\u003e\u003c/pre\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests:  David Blank-Edelman, Davey Shafik, and Jason Yee.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Travel Tips for Community Managers","date_published":"2016-12-13T09:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/508a2fd6-5495-48a7-9129-ec0fe993d168.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":107057620,"duration_in_seconds":3270}]},{"id":"0c44c9bc00c90f619a9c42941ccb08d0","title":"Burnout - Part Two (Ep 11)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/11-burnout-p2","content_text":"The return of guests Jessica Fish (@fishica) and John Willis (@botchagalupe) to discuss recognizing burnout and dealing with it.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Jessica Fish and John Willis.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eThe return of guests Jessica Fish (@fishica) and John Willis (@botchagalupe) to discuss recognizing burnout and dealing with it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Jessica Fish and John Willis.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Recognizing and Preventing Burnout","date_published":"2016-12-07T09:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/eebc84e8-f502-46d7-876f-9ef14cbaa603.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":92505471,"duration_in_seconds":2822}]},{"id":"8935698efd2ab49904afa64fc6555d3b","title":"Burnout - Part One (Ep 10)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/10-burnout-p1","content_text":"Your hosts Jason Hand, Mary Thengvall, and PJ Hagerty in conversation with guests Jessica Fish and John Willis on the topic of Burnout in the DevRel community.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Jessica Fish and John Willis.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eYour hosts Jason Hand, Mary Thengvall, and PJ Hagerty in conversation with guests Jessica Fish and John Willis on the topic of Burnout in the DevRel community.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Jessica Fish and John Willis.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"What Is Burnout and Why Do We Suffer From It?","date_published":"2016-11-21T09:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/2250851a-6888-4e86-9c05-84ac6b7edf86.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":50775562,"duration_in_seconds":1543}]},{"id":"b152f5d8f880ab4034404362942d80da","title":"Balancing Your Public and Private Lives (Ep 9)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/09-balancing-public-vs-private-life","content_text":"In this Halloween-ish episode of Community Pulse, PJ and Mary talk to Coraline Ada Ehmke and Ed Finkler. We explore the the two sides of the same coin that are the life of technical advocates.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Coraline Ada Ehmke and Ed Finkler.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eIn this Halloween-ish episode of Community Pulse, PJ and Mary talk to Coraline Ada Ehmke and Ed Finkler. We explore the the two sides of the same coin that are the life of technical advocates.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Coraline Ada Ehmke and Ed Finkler.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In this Halloween-ish episode of Community Pulse, PJ and Mary talk to Coraline Ada Ehmke and Ed Finkler. We explore the the two sides of the same coin that are the life of technical advocates.","date_published":"2016-10-31T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/fbd70746-3e84-4d50-87e9-55dcd5732c91.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":88130672,"duration_in_seconds":2740}]},{"id":"3b2af41f36924d09173fcf776d13eeb1","title":"Introducing PJ (Ep 8)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/08-introducing-pj","content_text":"The one where we introduce PJ Hagerty, the new guy. Jason and Mary talk about why they’ve decided to add a third person, as well as their plan for the next few episodes and their hopes for the podcast going forward.\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eThe one where we introduce \u003ca href= \"https://twitter.com/aspleenic\"\u003ePJ Hagerty\u003c/a\u003e, the new guy. Jason and Mary talk about why they’ve decided to add a third person, as well as their plan for the next few episodes and their hopes for the podcast going forward.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"The one where we introduce , the new guy. Jason and Mary talk about why they’ve decided to add a third person, as well as their plan for the next few episodes and their hopes for the podcast going forward.","date_published":"2016-07-27T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/1bac4870-3892-4856-885a-067c6b5b1747.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":50500345,"duration_in_seconds":1559}]},{"id":"2ee68bc91f8d17e108735828f9b9ac45","title":"Making The Jump From One To Many (Ep 07)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/07-making-the-jump","content_text":"TL;DR:\nGiven that community management is a relatively new profession, it’s difficult to know how and when to expand the department. Add to that the nebulousness around what a community professional does depending on the goals of the company, and it’s near impossible! In this episode of Community Pulse we were joined by Nathen Harvey (VP of Community Development, Chef) and Phil Leggetter (Head of Developer Relations, Nexmo) to talk about learning to scale a community role.\n\nWe talk about working closely with other departments that have similar (but not the same) goals and understanding our colleagues’ day-to-day concerns, as well as the importance of communication and finding a mentor. We also delved into the murky waters of self-promotion and how to make sure you (and your team) are highly visible within the company. Lastly, we talked about the struggle of learning to step back and delegate tasks to others so you have the time to do what you need to be doing as you guide your team.\n\nLinks:\n\n\nDevRelCon: London 2015, San Francisco 2016 \nEvangelist Collective Slack Group\n\n\nTools:\n\n\nAsana: “kanban lite” -- allows you to sync with a calendar, organize tasks among a team, etc. \nOSS Tracker: looks after your github repos for an organization and gives you feedback and stats\nZapier: an app to make all the apps talk to each other \n\n\nEvents:\nChefConf 2016: July 11-13, Austin, TX \nDevOpsDays DC: June 8-9, Alexandria, VA\n\nTo decompress:\nfavorite non-tech podcast: The Truth Podcast \n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests:  Phil Leggetter and Nathen Harvey.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTL;DR:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nGiven that community management is a relatively new profession, it’s difficult to know how and when to expand the department. Add to that the nebulousness around what a community professional does depending on the goals of the company, and it’s near impossible! In this episode of Community Pulse we were joined by Nathen Harvey (VP of Community Development, Chef) and Phil Leggetter (Head of Developer Relations, Nexmo) to talk about learning to scale a community role.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWe talk about working closely with other departments that have similar (but not the same) goals and understanding our colleagues’ day-to-day concerns, as well as the importance of communication and finding a mentor. We also delved into the murky waters of self-promotion and how to make sure you (and your team) are highly visible within the company. Lastly, we talked about the struggle of learning to step back and delegate tasks to others so you have the time to do what you need to be doing as you guide your team.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks\u003c/strong\u003e:\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDevRelCon: \u003ca href=\"http://london-2015.devrel.net/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eLondon 2015\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"http://sf2016.devrel.net\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSan Francisco 2016\u003c/a\u003e \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eEvangelist Collective Slack Group\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTools\u003c/strong\u003e:\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://asana.com\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eAsana\u003c/a\u003e: “kanban lite” -- allows you to sync with a calendar, organize tasks among a team, etc. \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://github.com/Netflix/osstracker\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eOSS Tracker\u003c/a\u003e: looks after your github repos for an organization and gives you feedback and stats\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://zapier.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eZapier\u003c/a\u003e: an app to make all the apps talk to each other \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEvents:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"https://chefconf.chef.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChefConf 2016\u003c/a\u003e: July 11-13, Austin, TX \u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://www.devopsdays.org/events/2016-washington-dc/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevOpsDays DC\u003c/a\u003e: June 8-9, Alexandria, VA\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTo decompress:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nfavorite non-tech podcast: \u003ca href=\"http://www.thetruthpodcast.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Truth Podcast\u003c/a\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests:  Phil Leggetter and Nathen Harvey.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"In this episode of Community Pulse we were joined by Nathen Harvey (VP of Community Development, Chef) and Phil Leggetter (Head of Developer Relations, Nexmo) to talk about learning to scale a community role.","date_published":"2016-05-20T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/2452968f-d905-4139-b21b-1a2432c80cc2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":146106069,"duration_in_seconds":4530}]},{"id":"46b95f6c8f53b5f1f84bdcf8c19039e9","title":"#DevRelsFTW (Ep 6)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/06-devrelsftw","content_text":"This episode is an important one, and one of our most intense to date. We covered so much in this episode that I strongly suggest you simply listen, but here's the tl;dr:\n\nJason Yee, PJ Hagerty, and Carina C. Zona join Jason and Mary to talk through some of the prevalent struggles in community management: what our roles actually entail (and how to communicate that to the rest of the company), how we define ourselves, how to protect our roles, what we need in order to survive the day in and day out of this job that we love, and if a company decides to let their community department go, how (and when) to do that.\n\nHere are a few highlights:\nWho are we?\n\n\nWe are the listeners, the connectors, the avatars of the company we represent. We're the low-bullshit communicator -- the people who are known for being honest, as well as someone the community can be honest with, and as such, we're a reflection of the company to the rest of the world. \nWe're the oracle that's supposed to make sense of the unknown and then transmit that information to the decision-makers... easy, right?\nWe're specialists. Just like the engineers. Just like the sales people. We're specialists. Companies need to understand this, and allow us to do the things we specialize in instead of forcing us into situations where we do things that aren't our job poorly. \n\n\nWhat do we do?\n\n\nThere's so much \"mysticism\" in what we do that people get confused about what it is that we do and how we show our worth. It's essential for us to find ways to communicate what we're doing on a regular basis back to the company.\nDespite how it appears, we don't keep flipping hats around, choosing whichever one suits us that day... we keep adding more hats, which makes our results difficult to quantify.\n\n\nHow do we protect ourselves?\n\n\nMake sure our manager has our back. We need someone to fight our battles for us, even shield us to a certain extent, so that we can do our job. In the perfect world, the person above us is the umbrella that protects us from the things going on above us, not by keeping us from knowing what we need to know in order to do our job, but allowing us to focus on our day-to-day tasks while they take care of the higher-level conversations and the fight to keep our department afloat.\nThe question companies need to start asking isn't \"Can we continue to afford to pay these people?\" but \"Can we afford to lose the goodwill and amount of work that these folks are putting into our community?\"\n\n\nCheck It Out:\n[Evangelist Collective Slack Channel](evangelistcollective.github.io)\n[Prompt](mhprompt.net) - looking for someone to speak about mental health in tech? we'll provide financial assistance to help you find a speaker.\nVicky Brassuer's 4-part series on opensource.com re: ROI and metrics around community management\nDebugging Teams: Better Productivity Through Collaboration\n#DevRelsFTW\n\nto decompress:\nFuller House (skip the first episode)\nPeewee's Big Holiday\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Carina C. Zona and Jason Yee.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eThis episode is an important one, and one of our most intense to date. We covered so much in this episode that I strongly suggest you simply listen, but here\u0026#39;s the tl;dr:\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJason Yee, PJ Hagerty, and Carina C. Zona join Jason and Mary to talk through some of the prevalent struggles in community management: what our roles actually entail (and how to communicate that to the rest of the company), how we define ourselves, how to protect our roles, what we need in order to survive the day in and day out of this job that we love, and if a company decides to let their community department go, how (and when) to do that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eHere are a few highlights:\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eWho are we?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWe are the listeners, the connectors, the avatars of the company we represent. We\u0026#39;re the low-bullshit communicator -- the people who are known for being honest, as well as someone the community can be honest with, and as such, we\u0026#39;re a reflection of the company to the rest of the world. \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWe\u0026#39;re the oracle that\u0026#39;s supposed to make sense of the unknown and then transmit that information to the decision-makers... easy, right?\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWe\u0026#39;re specialists. Just like the engineers. Just like the sales people. We\u0026#39;re specialists. Companies need to understand this, and allow us to do the things we specialize in instead of forcing us into situations where we do things that \u003cem\u003earen\u0026#39;t\u003c/em\u003e our job poorly. \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eWhat do we do?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThere\u0026#39;s so much \u0026quot;mysticism\u0026quot; in what we do that people get confused about what it is that we do and how we show our worth. It\u0026#39;s essential for us to find ways to communicate what we\u0026#39;re doing on a regular basis back to the company.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDespite how it appears, we don\u0026#39;t keep flipping hats around, choosing whichever one suits us that day... we keep adding more hats, which makes our results difficult to quantify.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eHow do we protect ourselves?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eMake sure our manager has our back. We need someone to fight our battles for us, even shield us to a certain extent, so that we can do our job. In the perfect world, the person above us is the umbrella that protects us from the things going on above us, not by keeping us from knowing what we need to know in order to do our job, but allowing us to focus on our day-to-day tasks while they take care of the higher-level conversations and the fight to keep our department afloat.\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eThe question companies need to start asking isn\u0026#39;t \u0026quot;Can we continue to afford to pay these people?\u0026quot; but \u0026quot;Can we afford to lose the goodwill and amount of work that these folks are putting into our community?\u0026quot;\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCheck It Out:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n[Evangelist Collective Slack Channel](evangelistcollective.github.io)\u003cbr\u003e\n[Prompt](mhprompt.net) - looking for someone to speak about mental health in tech? we\u0026#39;ll provide financial assistance to help you find a speaker.\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"https://gist.github.com/vmbrasseur/6f4ce13f6b82ea87a139\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eVicky Brassuer\u0026#39;s 4-part series on opensource.com\u003c/a\u003e re: ROI and metrics around community management\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://amzn.to/1SYj5h0\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDebugging Teams: Better Productivity Through Collaboration\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets\u0026vertical=default\u0026q=%23devrelsftw\u0026src=typd\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003e#DevRelsFTW\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eto decompress:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/80051137\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFuller House\u003c/a\u003e (skip the first episode)\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/80031800\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePeewee\u0026#39;s Big Holiday\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Carina C. Zona and Jason Yee.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason Yee, PJ Hagerty, and Carina C. Zona join Jason and Mary to talk through some of the prevalent struggles in community management: what our roles actually entail (and how to communicate that to the rest of the company), how we define ourselves, how to protect our roles, what we need in order to survive the day in and day out of this job that we love, and if a company decides to let their community department go, how (and when) to do that.","date_published":"2016-04-11T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/9776fa13-8d71-4bde-a72c-869bb22dd583.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":102683850,"duration_in_seconds":3181}]},{"id":"bfd34c3eacda67fea7f449777bd2ead0","title":"The Community for Community Professionals (Ep 5)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/05-community-for-community-professionals","content_text":"*TL;DR: *\nDavid Spinks (CEO, CMX Media, @davidspinks) and Carrie Jones (Director of Content, CMX Media, @caremjo) joined Mary and Jason for this episode of Community Pulse. CMX was launched in 2014 as the community for community professionals. These days, through their summits, online community, content, and more, they work to advance the community industry, and give community professionals all of the resources they need to be successful.\n\nThe CMX Summits bring in voices from psychology and behavioral analysis, as well as non-profits, plus stories from the trenches of technology. The theme for CMX West 2015 was “Community is the Future of Business.” We talk through this idea, and what it means for the future of community professionals, as well as why the essence of community is at a tipping point right now. In the process, we highlight how to help companies understand what it’s like to build community on a professional level, how to set the standards for this relatively new role,\n\nLinks:\nCMX Hub Facebook Group\nThe Community Manager - community management-related tips, news and case studies.\nCMX Summit - “TED for Community Professionals”\nFundamentals of Community Strategy Training Course\nSeth Godin (author)\nContent Strategy for Community Professionals (ebook)\nGuide to Community Platforms (ebook)\nSarah Judd Welch’s “Community Is” Newsletter\nThe Culting of Brands by Douglas Atkin (book)\nStart With Why by Simon Sinek (book)\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Carrie Jones and David Spinks.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e*\u003cem\u003eTL;DR: *\u003c/em\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nDavid Spinks (CEO, CMX Media, @davidspinks) and Carrie Jones (Director of Content, CMX Media, @caremjo) joined Mary and Jason for this episode of Community Pulse. CMX was launched in 2014 as the community for community professionals. These days, through their \u003ca href=\"http://cmxhub.com/summit/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003esummits\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/groups/cmxhub/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eonline community\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"http://cmxhub.com/browse/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003econtent\u003c/a\u003e, and more, they work to advance the community industry, and give community professionals all of the resources they need to be successful.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe CMX Summits bring in voices from psychology and behavioral analysis, as well as non-profits, plus stories from the trenches of technology. The theme for CMX West 2015 was “Community is the Future of Business.” We talk through this idea, and what it means for the future of community professionals, as well as why the essence of community is at a tipping point right now. In the process, we highlight how to help companies understand what it’s like to build community on a professional level, how to set the standards for this relatively new role,\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/groups/cmxhub/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCMX Hub Facebook Group\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://thecommunitymanager.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Community Manager\u003c/a\u003e - community management-related tips, news and case studies.\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://cmxhub.com/summit/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCMX Summit\u003c/a\u003e - “TED for Community Professionals”\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://cmxhub.com/workshops/community-management-fundamentals-training/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFundamentals of Community Strategy Training Course\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://www.sethgodin.com/sg/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSeth Godin\u003c/a\u003e (author)\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://cmxhub.com/content-strategy-for-community-professionals-ebook/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eContent Strategy for Community Professionals\u003c/a\u003e (ebook)\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://cmxhub.com/cmx-guide-to-community-platforms/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eGuide to Community Platforms\u003c/a\u003e (ebook)\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://community.is/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSarah Judd Welch’s “Community Is” Newsletter\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://www.amazon.com/The-Culting-Brands-Customers-Believers/dp/1591840961\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Culting of Brands\u003c/a\u003e by Douglas Atkin (book)\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://www.amazon.com/Start-Why-Leaders-Inspire-Everyone/dp/1591846447\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eStart With Why\u003c/a\u003e by Simon Sinek (book)\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Carrie Jones and David Spinks.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"CMX is the community for community professionals. We talk to Carrie Jones and David Spinks about the future of community professionals.","date_published":"2016-01-30T09:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/58c5c62e-b514-4c8d-81b3-5841449c54ab.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":67806264,"duration_in_seconds":2049}]},{"id":"fb6020739ef9405346866abc28094f52","title":"Metrics: Arch Nemesis Of The Community Builder (Ep 04)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/04-metrics","content_text":"*TL;DR: *\nOn this episode of the Community Pulse, Jason and Mary sit down with Tim Falls, Vice President of Community at Keen.io, and Jesus Gonzalez-Barahona, co-founder of Bitergia, to dig into metrics -- the community manager’s arch nemesis. We talk through a number of different options of how to face the reality of making your value known in a world where community is all about relationship-building and word-of-mouth. From bringing awareness to what you’re doing as a team, to not just knowing the numbers, but understanding what the numbers mean, to bringing other coworkers into the community effort whose job titles don’t indicate that they “should” be involved in community, Jesus and Tim offer solutions to this very real problem.\n\nLinks:\nCauldron beta -- community metrics for github repositories \nEvaluating Free / Open Source Software Projects -- work-in-progress book\nFCM2 -- FLOSS Community Metrics Meeting\nFeverBee Sprint -- conference about the psychology of community\nCMX -- conference, community of community pros, and awesome FB group\ndashboards.community -- a github repo from Keen.io on how to measure community\nMeasuring Community -- blogpost that Mary quoted at 13:15\n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guests: Jesus Gonzalez-Barahona and Tim Falls.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e*\u003cem\u003eTL;DR: *\u003c/em\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nOn this episode of the Community Pulse, Jason and Mary sit down with Tim Falls, Vice President of Community at \u003ca href=\"https://keen.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eKeen.io\u003c/a\u003e, and Jesus Gonzalez-Barahona, co-founder of \u003ca href=\"http://bitergia.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eBitergia\u003c/a\u003e, to dig into metrics -- the community manager’s arch nemesis. We talk through a number of different options of how to face the reality of making your value known in a world where community is all about relationship-building and word-of-mouth. From bringing awareness to what you’re doing as a team, to not just knowing the numbers, but understanding what the numbers mean, to bringing other coworkers into the community effort whose job titles don’t indicate that they “should” be involved in community, Jesus and Tim offer solutions to this very real problem.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://biterg.io\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCauldron beta\u003c/a\u003e -- community metrics for github repositories \u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"https://jgbarah.gitbooks.io/evaluating-foss-projects/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eEvaluating Free / Open Source Software Projects\u003c/a\u003e -- work-in-progress book\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://flosscommunitymetrics.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFCM2\u003c/a\u003e -- FLOSS Community Metrics Meeting\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://sprint.feverbee.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eFeverBee Sprint\u003c/a\u003e -- conference about the psychology of community\u003cbr\u003e\nCMX -- conference, community of community pros, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/groups/cmxhub/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eawesome FB group\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\ndashboards.community -- a github repo from Keen.io on how to measure community\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://mackwebsolutions.com/2013/08/measuring-community-kpis-social-metrics-community-building/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eMeasuring Community\u003c/a\u003e -- blogpost that Mary quoted at 13:15\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guests: Jesus Gonzalez-Barahona and Tim Falls.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Metrics tend to be the community builder’s arch nemesis. In this episode, Jason and Mary sit down with community folks from Keen and Bitergia.","date_published":"2015-12-18T09:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/af0df0d0-7f2c-4ccc-be74-d06ff08b0cfc.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":94613063,"duration_in_seconds":2930}]},{"id":"0c4c634fe6658580a4e176fc185456d6","title":"Andrew Hyde: Pursue Your Passions (Ep 3)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/03-andrew-hyde","content_text":"TL;DR:\nAndrew Hyde has no lack of experience when it comes to community, whether that’s organizing local events or connecting people who have similar interests. In this episode of Community Pulse, Mary and Jason talk to him about how to pursue your passions, the importance of taking care of your newest members, and how being a “yes person” is usually the foundation of being a successful community builder.\n\nLinks:\nKathy Sierra — blog and XOXO talk (will be up posted soon here)\n\nTakeaways:\nLaunch stuff. Reach out. Be supportive. \n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Andrew Hyde.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTL;DR\u003c/strong\u003e:\u003cbr\u003e\nAndrew Hyde has no lack of experience when it comes to community, whether that’s organizing local events or connecting people who have similar interests. In this episode of Community Pulse, Mary and Jason talk to him about how to pursue your passions, the importance of taking care of your newest members, and how being a “yes person” is usually the foundation of being a successful community builder.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nKathy Sierra — \u003ca href=\"http://headrush.typepad.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eblog\u003c/a\u003e and XOXO talk (will be up posted soon \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/user/xoxofest\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ehere\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTakeaways:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nLaunch stuff. Reach out. Be supportive. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Andrew Hyde.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Community builder and organizer Andrew Hyde talks about how to pursue your passions in this episode of Community Pulse.","date_published":"2015-09-30T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/13f3da3d-b95b-42ff-a23f-c12c68ce5c75.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":87380168,"duration_in_seconds":2711}]},{"id":"5a1a7a1cfa3f14f45d5346553b188a08","title":"Jono Bacon: Father of Community (Ep 2)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/02-jono-bacon","content_text":"TL;DR:\nOn this episode of Community Pulse, Jason and Mary talk to Jono Bacon, Community Strategist and Leader, and author of The Art of Community. Jono joined Canonical in 2006 as a Community Manager, which provided a “stomping ground” for him to learn how to build good communities. It was here that he learned there is value in those individuals who can understand the interesting “connective tissue” between the people and the product. \n\nThroughout this 40 minute podcast, we’ll touch on the difference between “read” and “write” communities, how difficult (and important!) it is for us to define our role, how to deal with our harshest critics, and more.\n\nLinks:\nCommunity Leadership Forum\nThe Art of Community (Amazon) or free PDF\nNudge (Amazon)\nPredictably Irrational (Amazon)\nDr. David Rock’s SCARF: a brain-based model for collaborating with and influencing others (PDF)\nThe Starfish and the Spider (Amazon)\n\nUpcoming Events:\nDevRelCon: Sept 30, London, UK\nCMX Summit: Oct 14-15, San Francisco, CA\nChef Community Summit: Oct 14-15, Seattle, WA\n\nCorrections:\nWe stated in the podcast that the first edition of The Art of Community came out in 2012. The second edition was actually released in 2012 and the first in 2009. \n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Jono Bacon.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTL;DR:\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nOn this episode of Community Pulse, Jason and Mary talk to Jono Bacon, Community Strategist and Leader, and author of The Art of Community. Jono joined Canonical in 2006 as a Community Manager, which provided a “stomping ground” for him to learn how to build good communities. It was here that he learned there is value in those individuals who can understand the interesting “connective tissue” between the people and the product. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThroughout this 40 minute podcast, we’ll touch on the difference between “read” and “write” communities, how difficult (and important!) it is for us to define our role, how to deal with our harshest critics, and more.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eLinks\u003c/strong\u003e:\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://communityleadershipforum.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCommunity Leadership Forum\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://smile.amazon.com/Art-Community-Building-New-Participation/dp/1449312063/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8\u0026qid=1443477258\u0026sr=8-1\u0026keywords=the+art+of+community\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Art of Community\u003c/a\u003e (Amazon) or \u003ca href=\"http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003efree PDF\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://smile.amazon.com/Nudge-Improving-Decisions-Health-Happiness/dp/014311526X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8\u0026qid=1443480452\u0026sr=8-1\u0026keywords=Nudge\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eNudge\u003c/a\u003e (Amazon)\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://smile.amazon.com/Predictably-Irrational-Revised-Expanded-Decisions/dp/0061353248/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8\u0026qid=1443480468\u0026sr=8-1\u0026keywords=predictably+irrational\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003ePredictably Irrational\u003c/a\u003e (Amazon)\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://www.your-brain-at-work.com/files/NLJ_SCARFUS.pdf\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDr. David Rock’s SCARF: a brain-based model for collaborating with and influencing others\u003c/a\u003e (PDF)\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://smile.amazon.com/Starfish-Spider-Unstoppable-Leaderless-Organizations/dp/1591841836/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8\u0026qid=1443533448\u0026sr=8-1\u0026keywords=The+Starfish+and+the+Spider\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eThe Starfish and the Spider\u003c/a\u003e (Amazon)\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eUpcoming Events\u003c/strong\u003e:\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://london-2015.devrel.net/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRelCon\u003c/a\u003e: Sept 30, London, UK\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://cmxhub.com/summit/west-2015/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCMX Summit\u003c/a\u003e: Oct 14-15, San Francisco, CA\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.chef.io/summit/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChef Community Summit\u003c/a\u003e: Oct 14-15, Seattle, WA\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eCorrections\u003c/strong\u003e:\u003cbr\u003e\nWe stated in the podcast that the first edition of The Art of Community came out in 2012. The second edition was actually released in 2012 and the first in 2009. \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Jono Bacon.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"Jason and Mary talk to Jono Bacon about the difference between ‘read’ and ‘write’ communities. We also cover how difficult (and important!) it is for us to define our role, how to deal with our harshest critics, and more.","date_published":"2015-09-29T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/9df87261-4d03-4154-8bc9-3a43a9c6b527.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":80271853,"duration_in_seconds":2422}]},{"id":"070f6aaf5c82ecb5049545b41fcd2419","title":"Meet the Hosts (Ep 1)","url":"https://www.communitypulse.io/01-meet-the-hosts","content_text":"TL;DR:\nJason and Mary introduce themselves and announce that they’re starting a podcast on building communities. Why? There are a lot of really awesome communities and fantastic ideas both within and outside of the tech community, but there aren’t a lot of resources for those of us who are actively building communities. (Shoutout to Jason Hibbets for suggesting our name: Community Pulse.)\n\nIn short, this podcast is for those of us who keep a pulse on our communities. Our hope is that this podcast will be an opportunity for us to learn and share aspects of community building with developer evangelists, technical community managers, community builders, and advocates alike.\n\nLinks:\nCommunity Manager/Developer Evangelist Slack Group\nCommunity Leadership Forum\n\nUpcoming Events:\nDevRelCon: Sept 30, London, UK\nCMX Summit: Oct 14-15, San Francisco, CA\nChef Community Summit: Oct 14-15, Seattle, WA \n\nEnjoy the podcast?\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes and follow us on Spotify, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.Special Guest: Sarah Allen.","content_html":"\u003cp\u003eTL;DR:\u003cbr\u003e\nJason and Mary introduce themselves and announce that they’re starting a podcast on building communities. Why? There are a lot of really awesome communities and fantastic ideas both within and outside of the tech community, but there aren’t a lot of resources for those of us who are actively building communities. (Shoutout to \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jhibbets\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eJason Hibbets\u003c/a\u003e for suggesting our name: Community Pulse.)\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIn short, this podcast is for those of us who keep a pulse on our communities. Our hope is that this podcast will be an opportunity for us to learn and share aspects of community building with developer evangelists, technical community managers, community builders, and advocates alike.\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eLinks:\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://evangelistcollective.github.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCommunity Manager/Developer Evangelist Slack Group\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://communityleadershipforum.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCommunity Leadership Forum\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eUpcoming Events:\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://london-2015.devrel.net/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eDevRelCon\u003c/a\u003e: Sept 30, London, UK\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"http://london-2015.devrel.net/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eCMX Summit\u003c/a\u003e: Oct 14-15, San Francisco, CA\u003cbr\u003e\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.chef.io/summit/\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eChef Community Summit\u003c/a\u003e: Oct 14-15, Seattle, WA \u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eEnjoy the podcast?\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\nPlease take a few moments to leave us a review on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eiTunes\u003c/a\u003e and follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a\u0026nd=1\u0026dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce\" rel=\"nofollow\"\u003eSpotify\u003c/a\u003e, or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSpecial Guest: Sarah Allen.\u003c/p\u003e","summary":"\u003cp\u003eGet to know the hosts of the new Community Pulse podcast: \u003ca href=\"http://twitter.com/jasonhand\"\u003eJason Hand\u003c/a\u003e and \u003ca href= \"http://twitter.com/mary_grace\"\u003eMary Thengvall\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e","date_published":"2015-09-28T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/e02b7d06-9a22-456c-b72a-1fdb2146fb9f/9a27ccfd-5c4c-40a3-bfed-baced771404f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":34616931,"duration_in_seconds":1043}]}]}